Thats sucks... I wonder if trofeo's are really faster than psc2's.
New GT350 or New 2015 Z28?
- Thread starter gimmie11s
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The vid of chris Harris in the 991 GT3 is pretty convincing to me. So I'll say they are quiet a bit faster than the cup 2's.
This is my impression as well.
Every time I go to the track another LS7 grenades at some point in the weekend. My Dad is always saying he hopes its still under warranty when his gives up, and he already had Chevy replace the heads once on his Z06. He was behind another Z06 at COTA last time we were out and it blew up in front of him he almost spun due to the oil slick. The LS7 is a monster but its a time bomb. I'd take the 350 in any flavor over the Z28.
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Has there been any 350 failures as of yet? It's the only reason mine is stock. It doesn't seem anyone knows if there's issues to look out for.
It's good to know lethal's 750rwhp+ 350 has held up thus far.
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Define "held up." I'm not doubting Ford, or Lethal in this case, but that means different things to different people. They did some dyno testing and it hasnt popped; ok. They did some drag passes and it hasnt popped; ok. They drive it on the street from time to time; ok. They take it to the road course and do 4 full 20 minute sessions saturday and sunday; now im impressed. Again, just making the comment that "held up" very much depends on the context of the conversation you are having.
I agree, that's why I said thus far. A lot remains to be known.
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Too early to know how well the Voodoo will hold especially spinning to 8200rpm.
The Track Attack cars had less than 2,000 miles on them (I believe they were all new when the program started in the spring. The engines are not "handled with care" but are well serviced. Screaming down the straight at Miller in third gear near redline and you'd think there is no way these engines are going to last. Yet when I asked during one of the classroom instruction sessions it was revealed that they have yet to see an engine failure.
I don't think the voodoo mills will be too problematic. They are high revving, but they are very free flowing.
Ls7's are inherently less efficient at 7300rpms than they need to be to survive long term thrashing.
The fpc 5.2's could probably live longer at 8500-9000rpms than ls7's do when routinely spun to 7300. There's just no point to tune it for and rev it that high because the factory 8200 is optimal considering it peaks at 7500.
Ls7's are inherently less efficient at 7300rpms than they need to be to survive long term thrashing.
The fpc 5.2's could probably live longer at 8500-9000rpms than ls7's do when routinely spun to 7300. There's just no point to tune it for and rev it that high because the factory 8200 is optimal considering it peaks at 7500.
Further still, it's telling of factory optimization when you can drive a gt350r into deep 12's or tip top 11's by shifting at the factory redline, but to get a c6z convincingly into bottom 12's or mid to high 11's, you have to spin it 500rpm past redline. Ford built the gt350 around the understanding that it would live between 6500-8250 in most consumer hands, where Chevy built the ls7 to live from 2000-6700 is how it seems.
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I keep reading about how one is faster than the other on the track.. Fact of the matter is there are about 4% of people that can drive those two cars to their limits.. And none of them are in this thread.. lol. You want power, look at what H/C/I/E LS7's are doing.. 600-630n/a... You want looks imo the Shelby Hands down.. and even still you wouldn't catch me dead buying a chevy.. that's just me though.
And yes the Shelby can make 520-530n/a with E85 and headers.
And yes the Shelby can make 520-530n/a with E85 and headers.
Really depends on what your using the car for. If you are using for a daily driver, I think I would go with the GT350, by how the car sounds, probably the GT350, I say this a Z/28 owner. If you are tracking, the 2 are as close as you are going to get to equals. Haven't seen anyone at the track, or anywhere else for that matter, with an R yet, most likely because of the monster ADMs. Value, the Z/28 is a no brainer at 20,000 plus off sticker. If you are using for a cruiser, car shows, cars and coffee it is not going to cost much to run and with less than 1800 built, you probably won't see another one there. If you track, the costs will be similar to the GT350, tires are close in price and no one says you have to stick with Trofeos, there are cheaper choices. Brakes are expensive but they will last longer than steel rotors and are incredible. How long tires and brakes last will depend on your driving and what tracks you are running. The track is the one place where you will find Z/28s, other than dealers lots. Both cars are pretty cool, when in doubt just flip a coin, can't see you being disappointed with either.
Several R's on track and here's one. ;-)
[video]https://youtu.be/4AtFdC8IWXQ[/video]
[video]https://youtu.be/oJC8Y42qOKo[/video]
[video]https://youtu.be/ryZOIaK0ZR4[/video]
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I've been surprised with 5.2L reliability to be honest. I expected more failures right off the bat, but I've heard very little.
I think ultimately the majority of issues with GT350 will come from mods that upset the delicate NVH balance these things have.
I think ultimately the majority of issues with GT350 will come from mods that upset the delicate NVH balance these things have.
replied and Thank You.
Great feedback thanks much.
I'd like to think I'd track the car but truthfully, other than a few Autocross events, my car would not see serious, regular track time.
I just keep thinking about a cammed, bolt on ls7 making close to 600whp na.. would be insane.
The voodoo is an extension of the coyote and my take on it is its more of an exaggeration of it too.
I love the coyote motor, but truthfully its a high strung high rpm v8. It makes its power via rpm which is fine and I enjoy it.
the voodoo takes this even further with its fpc, 8200+ rpm redline an such. I like all of the technology behind the gt350 launch.. the clutch, the suspension, everything.
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The z28 will be fun, and more enjoyable at 2000rpm in 4-6th gear lugging around town.
The gt350(or r) will hold value much better, is more comfy, but has less balls from idle to 3500rpm.
If you mainly lug around in stop/go, a cammed ls7 will be problematic because of idle issues, unless it's mildly configured.
Honestly, I could see you ending up on the poor side of both worlds if you get the z28 for its low end torque, then cam it for 600+whp.
You'll spend $3-5k in head/cam work doing so, and lose about 50wtq from idle to 2500rpm. Couple that with a 3800lbs car, and t6060 gearing may be annoying in stop/go. You'll also be stuck with the interior of the gem 5, which even optioned up only has a very plain sound system. For $60k interior wise, you'll feel buyers remorse as soon as you get past the honey moon phase, say a month into owning the car. To give an idea, a stock 1999 mustang gt that was $24k has more sound quality and luxuries than a z28... Just saying. Ride wise, magnetic ride vs fixed suspension, drive modes vs fixed suspension, so on. You get basically double the car with a gt350. Put it all in track/aggressive modes, it's a brutal track car. Put the stuff in soft, it's an M3(better).
A bolt on gt350 with a tune will make 500+whp, and pick up low end torque. You'll also have the amenities of the s550 mustang, and be the same price as the cammed z28, about $60k either way.
Thing is a year from now, the gt350 will still be worth 50+, the z28 will drop into the 40's.
I'd get the gt350. That said, a used $45-50k z28 (like 20 on autotrader) may be a great idea. I haven't looked, but I'd imagine someone has put a nice head unit in one and is selling it by now.
This is is $42k with a call away performance option making 652whp. It's on autotrader. Here is the autotrader ad number.
AT-199f0c14
The gt350(or r) will hold value much better, is more comfy, but has less balls from idle to 3500rpm.
If you mainly lug around in stop/go, a cammed ls7 will be problematic because of idle issues, unless it's mildly configured.
Honestly, I could see you ending up on the poor side of both worlds if you get the z28 for its low end torque, then cam it for 600+whp.
You'll spend $3-5k in head/cam work doing so, and lose about 50wtq from idle to 2500rpm. Couple that with a 3800lbs car, and t6060 gearing may be annoying in stop/go. You'll also be stuck with the interior of the gem 5, which even optioned up only has a very plain sound system. For $60k interior wise, you'll feel buyers remorse as soon as you get past the honey moon phase, say a month into owning the car. To give an idea, a stock 1999 mustang gt that was $24k has more sound quality and luxuries than a z28... Just saying. Ride wise, magnetic ride vs fixed suspension, drive modes vs fixed suspension, so on. You get basically double the car with a gt350. Put it all in track/aggressive modes, it's a brutal track car. Put the stuff in soft, it's an M3(better).
A bolt on gt350 with a tune will make 500+whp, and pick up low end torque. You'll also have the amenities of the s550 mustang, and be the same price as the cammed z28, about $60k either way.
Thing is a year from now, the gt350 will still be worth 50+, the z28 will drop into the 40's.
I'd get the gt350. That said, a used $45-50k z28 (like 20 on autotrader) may be a great idea. I haven't looked, but I'd imagine someone has put a nice head unit in one and is selling it by now.
This is is $42k with a call away performance option making 652whp. It's on autotrader. Here is the autotrader ad number.
AT-199f0c14
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The 6th gen camaros are just so much better in every respect than any 5th gen. I wouldn't be surprised if a 1le is neck and neck or faster than a gt350 or z28. It doesn't need an ls7 or a fpc, it's lighter, smaller and more balanced than both.
With the gt350 you're paying for a lot more than performance on paper, that's for sure. The 3160 tremec, hand assembled fpc engine, fancy interior, adjustable suspension / steering and body modifications don't equate to a huge incremental leap in performance without them. I bet a spartan GT with some bolt-ons, brakes, suspension and tires would be within the same realm for way less $$$. Same applies to a z28 in some respects.
That being said, I've never owned a Mustang that drives, sounds, shifts, feels and looks like this thing. It's a truly special car, on and off the track. The tremec feels way better than the 6060r and the light / fast smooth revs from the fpc setup is just ****ing awesome. It's almost weird to sit in a pony car that climbs in rpms so fast and effortlessly. Ford really tried to make something that people will fall in love with, regardless of its capabilities.
The LS7 is great, but so is the new lt1 once you start playing around with them. Cam and some bolt-ons will put you at 500++, all in a car that's lighter with a way more refined interior than the z28.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...m-only-c7-new-era-vvt-cam-gains-121-rwhp.html
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With the gt350 you're paying for a lot more than performance on paper, that's for sure. The 3160 tremec, hand assembled fpc engine, fancy interior, adjustable suspension / steering and body modifications don't equate to a huge incremental leap in performance without them. I bet a spartan GT with some bolt-ons, brakes, suspension and tires would be within the same realm for way less $$$. Same applies to a z28 in some respects.
That being said, I've never owned a Mustang that drives, sounds, shifts, feels and looks like this thing. It's a truly special car, on and off the track. The tremec feels way better than the 6060r and the light / fast smooth revs from the fpc setup is just ****ing awesome. It's almost weird to sit in a pony car that climbs in rpms so fast and effortlessly. Ford really tried to make something that people will fall in love with, regardless of its capabilities.
The LS7 is great, but so is the new lt1 once you start playing around with them. Cam and some bolt-ons will put you at 500++, all in a car that's lighter with a way more refined interior than the z28.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...m-only-c7-new-era-vvt-cam-gains-121-rwhp.html
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^^^^
Al O has already been quoted saying the new 1le is 3 seconds faster than the last one. Where does that put the new one?
GM Milford Track Times:
Z28 - 53.71
Old Zl1 - 56.58
Old 1le - 58.85
That puts the z28 5.14 seconds faster than the 1le comparing same generation.
3 seconds off is still over 2 seconds slower than last gen z28. Take away the z28 tire advantage and you have a race!
Al O has already been quoted saying the new 1le is 3 seconds faster than the last one. Where does that put the new one?
GM Milford Track Times:
Z28 - 53.71
Old Zl1 - 56.58
Old 1le - 58.85
That puts the z28 5.14 seconds faster than the 1le comparing same generation.
3 seconds off is still over 2 seconds slower than last gen z28. Take away the z28 tire advantage and you have a race!
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