Nitrous or E85?

[Jmurrz]

Hey guys,

I am getting the itch for some more power. My car is a Gen II 2.3 Whipple car that sees its fair share of street and track usage. Recently a few buddies of mine have been stepping up their power and I would like to be able to compete as well.

I don't want to spend a ton of money, because I would just go turbo if that was the case. But I wouldn't be opposed to spending 2-3k including tuning. Looking for the best bang for my buck to get another few ponies.

I am just trying to weigh my options and see what my best route is. I know E85 has been coined "liquid gold" but that would require me doing a return fuel system, and there are no stations that carry E85 around me, so I would have to store it. Nitrous seems to work very well on the ported eaton's but not a whole lot of talk about how they do on a twin screw car. It seems that Nitrous has gremlins of its own, but I like the idea of being able to fill up on 93 whenever I want and have the juice "on tap" (plus I think a purge coming from the cobra emblem in the grill would be pretty sinister).

Looking for advice from anyone who has done either, pro's/cons of both?

 

[apex svt]

2-3 grand budget could build a sweet nitrous setup. Standalone with race fuel in it, it will gain your more power then e85 and adds cooling as well. Cons most will say filling/heating bottles,have to switch tunes to pull timing.
Don't know to much about e85 because like you its only at a couple places and I don't want that hassle

 

[Bdubbs]

2-3k would also be enough for a nice return fuel system. But if e85 isn't available in your area you have to decide if it's worth buying in bulk.

 

[svt4me38]

If you have no pumps local I would go nitrous, won't be constant wear and tear on the car and for that kind of money you could have a awesome setup.
Flip of the switch and she's a whole other car

 

[Jmurrz]

2-3 grand budget could build a sweet nitrous setup. Standalone with race fuel in it, it will gain your more power then e85 and adds cooling as well. Cons most will say filling/heating bottles,have to switch tunes to pull timing.
Don't know to much about e85 because like you its only at a couple places and I don't want that hassle

Yeah, It looks like there are trade offs for both, I wonder if I could just run a single tune that would have lower timing so I could spray whenever I needed. I really don't want to have to swap tunes just to spray.

2-3k would also be enough for a nice return fuel system. But if e85 isn't available in your area you have to decide if it's worth buying in bulk.

Even if I don't want to buy in bulk, I have 3 friends within 3 miles of my house who have drums if need be. Just wondering if the cost of the fuel system would add enough power to justify the cost. I know with nitrous I could just up the jetting if I needed more of a kick.

 

[Jmurrz]

If you have no pumps local I would go nitrous, won't be constant wear and tear on the car and for that kind of money you could have a awesome setup.
Flip of the switch and she's a whole other car

Yeah this is also what I am thinking, I only have to use it when I want to. Anyone have any idea if you could just run one tune all the time with lower timing? I really don't want to flip tunes. I feel like that is a tad cumbersome. How much power would I really loose by retarding 2*? Maybe 15 HP?

 

[Rambro]

I would buy e85 in bulk before I messed with spraying and adding Torcco. My buddies 2.3 car on e85 budget return and 80's ran 10.60 at 133 with a 1.6 60ft, stock feed also. He upgraded to the 2.9 whipple so I bought his 2.3. I plan to do a 75 shot on top of the 2.3 on e85. My answer is do both, e85 and a shot.

 

[mkb116]

If your planning to go turbo and make good power, your going to want a good return fuel system anyways..

 

[Bdubbs]

From my understanding e85 has more benefits than just adding more timing and boost. Less chance of detonation and the constant cooling affect was my main reason.

Not sure on how much truth, but I was told roughly 8-10 hp gain per 1 degree of timing added on e85. My timing on 92 octane peaks at 17* and on e85 23*.

 

[svtshadow]

Storing E85? You will be driving a couple of blocks then have to go back home and refill, then go out again, back to the house to refill. Shit from my experience, if you dont have E85 stations around your town, dont waste time with storing E85, because you aint gonna get range. If i were you i would put nitrous and stick with gas pump with torco. IMO

 

[Jmurrz]

I would buy e85 in bulk before I messed with spraying and adding Torcco. My buddies 2.3 car on e85 budget return and 80's ran 10.60 at 133 with a 1.6 60ft, stock feed also. He upgraded to the 2.9 whipple so I bought his 2.3. I plan to do a 75 shot on top of the 2.3 on e85. My answer is do both, e85 and a shot.

Not really looking to do both right now.

If your planning to go turbo and make good power, your going to want a good return fuel system anyways..

I was also thinking this, I am still not sure if I want to go down the turbo path. If I knew that was my end game the fuel system would be a no brainer.

From my understanding e85 has more benefits than just adding more timing and boost. Less chance of detonation and the constant cooling affect was my main reason.

Not sure on how much truth, but I was told roughly 8-10 hp gain per 1 degree of timing added on e85. My timing on 92 octane peaks at 17* and on e85 23*.

Yeah I think that I should be able to safely land in the 700's with the corn if I were to go that route. I really wish there were stations around here, I have read some great things about E85.

Storing E85? You will be driving a couple of blocks then have to go back home and refill, then go out again, back to the house to refill. Shit from my experience, if you dont have E85 stations around your town, dont waste time with storing E85, because you aint gonna get range. If i were you i would put nitrous and stick with gas pump with torco. IMO

This is what I was looking for, this was a huge concern for me. I know that E85 uses much more fuel and gets much worse millage than 93 pump. I do not want to get caught out somewhere without it because like you said that will defeat the purpose.

This is still such a hard decision... anyone else?

 

[MalcolmV8]

On spray you don't have to sacrifice timing or flip tunes etc. Simply get a timing box to handle the timing. I use the J&S Vampire. It automatically pulls timing when I spray.
For fuel spray a wet shot and again no need to change tunes. With timing and fuel taken care of no need to flip tunes.

Get a nano nitrous setup or convert what ever nitrous setup you get to nano. Nano uses compressed nitrogen to force feed the nitrous bottle at a consistent pressure. It's the alternative to the crappy heat the bottle setup. Heating the bottle takes 15 minutes to reach temps and then it's difficult to keep consistent. Also on really hot days it can keep going over temp. Nano fixes all those issues. Instant usage with no delays and consistent pressure.

Add a few safety items like a WOT and window switch so you don't accidentally spray the car at the wrong times unintended or against the rev limiter etc.

It'll really wake the car up. My old Eaton setup on spray was fun as hell. Sucks filling bottles but it'll suck a lot more shipping in barrels of E85 and having limited driving range. Nitrous will give you more power than just going to E85 alone too.

 

[svtshadow]

On spray you don't have to sacrifice timing or flip tunes etc. Simply get a timing box to handle the timing. I use the J&S Vampire. It automatically pulls timing when I spray.
For fuel spray a wet shot and again no need to change tunes. With timing and fuel taken care of no need to flip tunes.
Get a nano nitrous setup or convert what ever nitrous setup you get to nano. Nano uses compressed nitrogen to force feed the nitrous bottle at a consistent pressure. It's the alternative to the crappy heat the bottle setup. Heating the bottle takes 15 minutes to reach temps and then it's difficult to keep consistent. Also on really hot days it can keep going over temp. Nano fixes all those issues. Instant usage with no delays and consistent pressure.

Add a few safety items like a WOT and window switch so you don't accidentally spray the car at the wrong times unintended or against the rev limiter etc.

It'll really wake the car up. My old Eaton setup on spray was fun as hell. Sucks filling bottles but it'll suck a lot more shipping in barrels of E85 and having limited driving range. Nitrous will give you more power than just going to E85 alone too.

I have asked before and people always say that you need to have a different tune for nitrous and you have to switch tunes. Thank you for that reply, you clearly know your shit!

 

[Jmurrz]

On spray you don't have to sacrifice timing or flip tunes etc. Simply get a timing box to handle the timing. I use the J&S Vampire. It automatically pulls timing when I spray.
For fuel spray a wet shot and again no need to change tunes. With timing and fuel taken care of no need to flip tunes.

Get a nano nitrous setup or convert what ever nitrous setup you get to nano. Nano uses compressed nitrogen to force feed the nitrous bottle at a consistent pressure. It's the alternative to the crappy heat the bottle setup. Heating the bottle takes 15 minutes to reach temps and then it's difficult to keep consistent. Also on really hot days it can keep going over temp. Nano fixes all those issues. Instant usage with no delays and consistent pressure.

Add a few safety items like a WOT and window switch so you don't accidentally spray the car at the wrong times unintended or against the rev limiter etc.

It'll really wake the car up. My old Eaton setup on spray was fun as hell. Sucks filling bottles but it'll suck a lot more shipping in barrels of E85 and having limited driving range. Nitrous will give you more power than just going to E85 alone too.

I was hoping you would reply, I have seen some of your threads and posts about nitrous and it seems like you really know your stuff. Can you point me in the direction of a nano nitrous kit that would work for me? I think this is the route I am going to take. Sounds like E85 is a bigger PITA than it is worth if there are not stations available.

I have asked before and people always say that you need to have a different tune for nitrous and you have to switch tunes. Thank you for that reply, you clearly know your shit!

Yeah, I agree!

 

[MalcolmV8]

I have asked before and people always say that you need to have a different tune for nitrous and you have to switch tunes. Thank you for that reply, you clearly know your shit!

People say that because you need timing pulled and fuel added when spraying nitrous. The obvious solution is change tunes but if you can address those two issues outside of tune changes you're golden. Hence get a timing box and spray a wet shot and no need to swap tunes.

BTW when I first started playing with nitrous I just ran a tune with some timing pulled and sprayed a wet shot. While it does work it's less than ideal. I dyno'd the car and I was running 50 whp less than normal with timing pulled. It was noticeable seat of the pants. Got tired of that quickly and figured out the timing thing.

I was hoping you would reply, I have seen some of your threads and posts about nitrous and it seems like you really know your stuff. Can you point me in the direction of a nano nitrous kit that would work for me? I think this is the route I am going to take. Sounds like E85 is a bigger PITA than it is worth if there are not stations available.

I got most of all my nitrous stuff used in the market picking up bits and pieces. Some items like electric bottle openers I got new just because I never found them in the market. Of course this forum used to be crazy busy back in the day too. You can still get stuff there of course. Or look them up directly https://www.nano-nitrous.com/