Oil Pan Upgrade Needed?

[invisiblefrisbe]

Background:
I can't use the search function on this website for 3 letter words such as "oil" and "pan", and searching "site:svtperformance.com oil pan" or other variants provides way too many results, mostly build threads. I also flipped through the first 5 pages of this forum hope to stumble on someone else's post. So forgive me if this has been asked before...I did to some research and couldn't find the answer.

I've owned my car (in sig) for just over a year (and am still learning a lot about the car) and managed to get to one auto-cross event this year...and Gateway international raceway was shut down last year...it should open again next year for some HPDE events...which I want to attend. It'll be my first time any one of these events....now on to my question.

I found an AMAZING deal on a full MM suspension (K-member, control arms, coil overs, T/A, panhard, adjustable sway). So my winter project is installing all of these parts. While I'm replacing the K-member, I'm wonder if I should look at replacing the stock oil pan. This is a mostly street driven car, but I plan on taking it to a couple of auto-cross events and one or two HPDE events every year. After some reading I know the 03 motor has a larger windage tray, but no baffles in the stock oil pan. Do I need to be concerned with hurting my motor because a corner was taken too hard? I've been looking at an oil accumulator setup as well (with the added benefit as a pre-luber)...is a canton 2 quart accumulator enough to cover my butt if I take a corner hard enough to leave the pump dry?

 

[gmsux]

I would, the RR style pans are well baffled with trap doors and hold about 3 more qts of oil. Check out the sticky section, I posted some pics of a pan. Either the canton or moroso RR pan will do the trick.

 

[wheelhopper]

You've done one autox event and are looking at doing a few combined autox and HPDE events next year and it sounds like you are just getting started. I would suggest leaving the stock oil pan and simply running an extra quart of oil at those events. I have been doing that for 5 years now and currently race in TT. I have had no issues doing this. Until you get some more experience or are running 8-10 events every year, I would save the money. Unless you have plenty of money to spend, then get it and keep on truckin'.

 

[David Hester]

FWIW department, I started autocrossing in 1984, TT in '94, and RR in '03. I never worried about oil starvation autocrossing. Fresh oil probably more important than trick pans there. I have used Accusumps in a couple of race cars, one with manual valve and current one...is electric. It comes on when I hit power switch. I've seen pressure drops with heat, but haven't seen anything dangerous with or without Accusump.
As mentioned before, unless you are running something like Daytona sweeping 3-4 on the banking, stock pan should be fine.
You could glance at oil pressure gauge to see if pressure is dropping with your stock pan. Video cam pointed at dash can tell you alot.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

I would, the RR style pans are well baffled with trap doors and hold about 3 more qts of oil. Check out the sticky section, I posted some pics of a pan. Either the canton or moroso RR pan will do the trick.

Who makes the better RR pan? Is a new windage tray needed on an 03 motor?

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

On normal street tires, I never had an oil light come on, but before I switched to slicks I put on a Canton road race pan and windage tray. One of the few mods on this car that I did not do myself in my own garage.

It sounds to me like your money spent on seat time(IE entry fees), will give you the best bang for your buck, as opposed to the extensive list you mentioned.
Driver mod always trumps car mods every time.

Instructors and most of us here will recommend you NOT switch to a sticky R compound tire or slick until well past the point you are signed off to run solo.

Unless you are on an R compound or a slick I do not believe you will need a road race pan.

With that said if you are set on the extensive mods you have planned and the K will be off anyway, might as well do the pan.

 

[invisiblefrisbe]

It sounds to me like your money spent on seat time(IE entry fees), will give you the best bang for your buck, as opposed to the extensive list you mentioned.

Thanks, I've known that and was almost hesitant to post my question at the risk of being flamed (I don't feel that's what your doing here). I got such an amazing deal on the suspension that after I sold the rear axle, brakes and a few other items that were part of the deal, and after I sell some of the suspension stuff currently on my car that is coming off...I might actually make money on the deal. Basically I couldn't pass up the chance to upgrade all the suspension stuff even if as an inexperienced driver I don't know how to actually use this stuff to it's fullest.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

With that said if you are set on the extensive mods you have planned and the K will be off anyway, might as well do the pan.

So who makes the better pan? :lol1: Stock windage tray reusable or upgrade time?

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Canton 15-784 Road Race pan, the drain is fairly high up. How do you dump it all out? :shrug:

 

[99COBRA2881]

The MMR pan I have is the same way. There will always be about 5/16"-3/8" of oil left in the bottom of the pan. I really wish I had welded a new bung onto the pan and installed a drain plug that would actually drain all the oil out.

To the original poster,
I dont like doing things twice. It sucks. Youre going to be on a banked Roval if you open track at St Louis. If you can afford the pan buy it, install it and the suspension all at once and be done with it!

 

[wheelhopper]

Late Model Restoration makes a pan now. I don't know much about it, but it is reasonably priced and worth checking out.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Looking into it a little more, it seems doing a windage tray and the pan from the bottom of the motor are going to be a pain in the ass. Especially trying to get it all sealed.

Perhaps I will skip it when swapping the K.



edit: This actually looks like an interesting setup:

Livernois Motorsports is proud to introduce another exciting new product for the Ford 4.6 Modular engine. The Ford Modular crankshaft scraper brings a modification once reserved for race only engines to the mainstream and makes it both affordable and easy to install for the end user.

Oil windage and the parasitic losses that go with them are the enemy of any performance or racing engine. The purpose of a crankshaft scraper is to remove this excess oil from the rotating assembly and free up some of that parasitic drag. Crankshaft scrapers have long existed for the more popular engine options such as the SBC and SBF engines. This custom scraper brings those same benefits to the Ford Modular engine. The scraper is made from 6061-T6 aluminum and is CNC machined to exacting specs. The design is custom built around a 3.750 stroke setup and is a perfect fit. The leading edge is designed to shear oil off the rotating components and throw it towards the oil pan and sump. The outside perimeter has return slots machined into it to allow any other oil to return to the pan without getting trapped between the rotating assembly and the scraper.

The scraper is also designed to work in conjunction with our own oil drainback kit. The scraper has reliefs cut into the tray to allow the drainbacks to pass through them into the pan. This allows for a very efficient oil control system when the two pieces are used together in a system. Both the drainback kit and scraper work very well on their own at controlling oil but together as a team they provide the ultimate in oil control for you Ford Modular engine.

The scraper is a simple bolt on installation and requires no tools or modifications. It is designed to be a direct bolt on. The use of a second oil pan gasket is all that is required to install the scraper. When installed the scraper is sandwiched in between two factory ford oil pan gaskets to create a leak free seal. No sealants are required. With the variance in oil pickups between pans, there are some pickups that are a bolt on installation while others may require removal or trimming of the tube scraper. This varies from installation to installation.

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/Ford-4.6L-Modular-Engine-Crankshaft-Scraper.html



They told me:


Yes, we do use 2 OEM gaskets and grey RTV in the 4 corners. With our scraper, you will not need to modify the stock pickup or oil scavenger.


This is assuming installing the Crank Scraper with a Canton RR pan.

 

[99COBRA2881]

I used the Canton screen/windage tray, considering Ford held up production on the 00 Cobra R engine so the canton tray could be used speaks alot for its worth.

I used one gasket and blue RTV. Engine was upside down on the stand.

 

[gmsux]

With the Kmember out, you have direct access to the bottom of the motor, it's pretty easy IMO. Like others have said, running 7qts and street tires will likely be ok but having the k out makes installing one pretty easy and good mod to help out. I installed just the pan and had no issues initially. Now I'm using a 3V windage tray which covers the full length of the rotating assembly. Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[pkwest]

I have used the modular canton road race pan and windage tray a few times. I always use black rtv between the block and tray only no gasket and a gasket with no sealer at all between the tray and oil pan. I have never had a leak. The crank scraper needs to be removed from the oil pickup if you use the canton tray. Make sure to use some clay to check the pickup to pan clearance. If you have a kid like me play-dough works well. Just put a baggie over the pickup first. 3/8" is optimum. I find that most cases if you use a canton windage tray a washer the same thickness as the tray between the pickup and mounting nut with make the proper clearance. Verify with clay though. I used a moroso road race pan on a different application and lost the motor due to oil starvation on the track. I only use canton now.

 

[invisiblefrisbe]

Looking into it a little more, it seems doing a windage tray and the pan from the bottom of the motor are going to be a pain in the ass. Especially trying to get it all sealed.

Perhaps I will skip it when swapping the K.



edit: This actually looks like an interesting setup:

Livernois Motorsports is proud to introduce another exciting new product for the Ford 4.6 Modular engine. The Ford Modular crankshaft scraper brings a modification once reserved for race only engines to the mainstream and makes it both affordable and easy to install for the end user.

Oil windage and the parasitic losses that go with them are the enemy of any performance or racing engine. The purpose of a crankshaft scraper is to remove this excess oil from the rotating assembly and free up some of that parasitic drag. Crankshaft scrapers have long existed for the more popular engine options such as the SBC and SBF engines. This custom scraper brings those same benefits to the Ford Modular engine. The scraper is made from 6061-T6 aluminum and is CNC machined to exacting specs. The design is custom built around a 3.750 stroke setup and is a perfect fit. The leading edge is designed to shear oil off the rotating components and throw it towards the oil pan and sump. The outside perimeter has return slots machined into it to allow any other oil to return to the pan without getting trapped between the rotating assembly and the scraper.

The scraper is also designed to work in conjunction with our own oil drainback kit. The scraper has reliefs cut into the tray to allow the drainbacks to pass through them into the pan. This allows for a very efficient oil control system when the two pieces are used together in a system. Both the drainback kit and scraper work very well on their own at controlling oil but together as a team they provide the ultimate in oil control for you Ford Modular engine.

The scraper is a simple bolt on installation and requires no tools or modifications. It is designed to be a direct bolt on. The use of a second oil pan gasket is all that is required to install the scraper. When installed the scraper is sandwiched in between two factory ford oil pan gaskets to create a leak free seal. No sealants are required. With the variance in oil pickups between pans, there are some pickups that are a bolt on installation while others may require removal or trimming of the tube scraper. This varies from installation to installation.

Ford 4.6L Modular Engine Crankshaft Scraper - Livernois Motorsports



They told me:


Yes, we do use 2 OEM gaskets and grey RTV in the 4 corners. With our scraper, you will not need to modify the stock pickup or oil scavenger.


This is assuming installing the Crank Scraper with a Canton RR pan.

Is this part supposed to be installed in addition to a traditional windage tray with a screen then?

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Is this part supposed to be installed in addition to a traditional windage tray with a screen then?

No I believe it is a standalone piece.

 

[99saleenspeedster]

No I believe it is a standalone piece.

That is correct :rockon:

-Rick

 

[03 DSG Snake]

That is correct :rockon:

-Rick

Any more details on this bad boy? :rockon:

Is it more for drag or road race use as well?

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

No I believe it is a standalone piece.

That is correct :rockon:

-Rick

Oil drain back can be a serious short coming on these engines in road race and endurance racing applications.

That drain back kit I would consider to be almost mandatory with that scrapper unless you have fabbed up your own drain back mod design.

Looks like a very nice set up all together.