Pic Request - PS Pumps & Water Pumps
- Thread starter Harley#356
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My question isn't where does the back side terminate into, I see that it goes into the coolant crossover at the back of the intake manifold. Where does the front side terminate to that is facing the front of the engine? That metal tube along the drivers head that stops at the front.
Ah thanks for the pic of the lower radiator hose. I was thinking it was a direct connection radiator to WP. I forgot it was likely an "octopus" hose like our 2v's are. My 2v hose went from the radiator lower port to the side of the block, and had 2 hoses to go to the oil cooler, and 1 hose to the bottom of the coolant tank.
If anyone can confirm on that pic of the GT500 hose if that small hose at the lower right does connect to the tube that runs along the side of the drivers head back to the heater core that would answer my question from the above quote, and would then make sense to the earlier post about mentioning it returns to the WP, since it's returning to the same hose that feeds the WP.
Okay hearing there's no gasket there on that square port on the side of the block on the GT500 version (I assume just a smaller gasket for those 2 oil ports going to the oil cooler?) it's making more sense that the hole in the back of the WP housing is the freeze plug that blocks off that side squarish port. I'll borescope it this weekend to confirm, but it's sounding more and more like that's the case. So I'm assuming guys that install a meziere pump and use the CJ lower coolant neck/filter adaptor from BPS, have to pop that freeze plug out of the back of the WP hole to allow coolant flow from the lower port on the side of the block.
Yeah that's the one I was talking about. That link is just the piece sold by itself and not with the whole single belt drive kit. The adaptor is just pictured upside down vs. what it'd be when installed. That one protrusion (sticking up in that pic with the plug fitting) I assume is just a spot to tap off of for oil pressure. That adaptor piece is functionally no different than my regular 2v one that has the lower cooling big fitting and the oil fliter adaptor. It uses the attached pic of a gasket.
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Eureka lol
Between those photos, this link (https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/what-is-this-opening-gt500-block-see-pic.732759/), and this diagram (attached), I'm finally understanding the entire cooling system & path. Thanks everyone.
So my plan going forward (please give me a sanity check on this)...
1. I need to remove the freeze plug in the back of the WP hole:
If I'm not using the mech GT500 water pump (assuming Meziere or Lightning style, so no return into the front of the pump), and I'm using my 2v lower coolant port (like the BPS CJ unit), I'll need to pop that freeze plug out of the back of the WP hole so the coolant return will flow from the radiator into the lower radiator hose, into my lower coolant port on the side of the block, and into the back of the WP w/ that freeze plug removed
2. I can delete the heater core lines:
I'm not running a heater core, so I don't need that barb on the back of the intake manifold that feeds the HC (I actually don't have one being a CJ lower intake), so I don't need that side tube along the head that returns back to the lower radiator hose (may be a caveat to this, see way below)
3. I can delete the oil cooler lines:
I'm not running an oil cooler, so I don't need the very bottom port of the t-stat housing (smallest hose on the very bottom coming straight down), because there's no oil cooler for that to go to, and I don't need that barb on the lower radiator hose
4. Do I need the "recirc" hose at the front?
I'm referring to the hose coming off the t-stat housing at a 45* angle downwards. (There's the 2 upper ports, the 1 45* port, then the straight down port). I'm seeing this as a way for the coolant to still flow thru the engine before the t-stat opens. If the t-stat is shut, all the coolant flows out of the front of the heads, and thru this hose back to the lower radiator hose. When the fluid is hot enough to open the t-stat, it seems the fluid splits, half recircs and half goes thru the radiator. I'm assuming if I don't keep this hose, I would be dead heading the coolant path until the t-stat opens?
5. Do I need a "recirc" hose for the rear? (the caveat)
The OEM GT500 setup the rear of the heads the fluid exits thru the intake manifold, goes thru the heater core, and returns to the lower radiator hose. That coolant doesn't see the radiator on that loop, but it allows flow out of the back of the heads. I have 2 issues stopping this right now. 1 my lower intake is a CJ version that doesn't have a barb here, and 2 my heads have the rear coolant ports blocked off (see 2nd attachment). Does the CJ recirc the fluid out of the rear of the heads in another manner then? Or do they just keep it plugged and only force the fluid in the heads out of the front port? Seems this would cause the rear cylinders to run hotter.
I'm thinking it would be a good idea to keep a recirc off the rear to try and balance cylinder temps, the best way about it though is my next challenge.
Between those photos, this link (https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/threads/what-is-this-opening-gt500-block-see-pic.732759/), and this diagram (attached), I'm finally understanding the entire cooling system & path. Thanks everyone.
So my plan going forward (please give me a sanity check on this)...
1. I need to remove the freeze plug in the back of the WP hole:
If I'm not using the mech GT500 water pump (assuming Meziere or Lightning style, so no return into the front of the pump), and I'm using my 2v lower coolant port (like the BPS CJ unit), I'll need to pop that freeze plug out of the back of the WP hole so the coolant return will flow from the radiator into the lower radiator hose, into my lower coolant port on the side of the block, and into the back of the WP w/ that freeze plug removed
2. I can delete the heater core lines:
I'm not running a heater core, so I don't need that barb on the back of the intake manifold that feeds the HC (I actually don't have one being a CJ lower intake), so I don't need that side tube along the head that returns back to the lower radiator hose (may be a caveat to this, see way below)
3. I can delete the oil cooler lines:
I'm not running an oil cooler, so I don't need the very bottom port of the t-stat housing (smallest hose on the very bottom coming straight down), because there's no oil cooler for that to go to, and I don't need that barb on the lower radiator hose
4. Do I need the "recirc" hose at the front?
I'm referring to the hose coming off the t-stat housing at a 45* angle downwards. (There's the 2 upper ports, the 1 45* port, then the straight down port). I'm seeing this as a way for the coolant to still flow thru the engine before the t-stat opens. If the t-stat is shut, all the coolant flows out of the front of the heads, and thru this hose back to the lower radiator hose. When the fluid is hot enough to open the t-stat, it seems the fluid splits, half recircs and half goes thru the radiator. I'm assuming if I don't keep this hose, I would be dead heading the coolant path until the t-stat opens?
5. Do I need a "recirc" hose for the rear? (the caveat)
The OEM GT500 setup the rear of the heads the fluid exits thru the intake manifold, goes thru the heater core, and returns to the lower radiator hose. That coolant doesn't see the radiator on that loop, but it allows flow out of the back of the heads. I have 2 issues stopping this right now. 1 my lower intake is a CJ version that doesn't have a barb here, and 2 my heads have the rear coolant ports blocked off (see 2nd attachment). Does the CJ recirc the fluid out of the rear of the heads in another manner then? Or do they just keep it plugged and only force the fluid in the heads out of the front port? Seems this would cause the rear cylinders to run hotter.
I'm thinking it would be a good idea to keep a recirc off the rear to try and balance cylinder temps, the best way about it though is my next challenge.
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Bump, just looking for a sanity check against my last post. Any 2 cents blowbye or anybody else?
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
1. I would assume so, however i have never done it.
2. Yes you can delete the heater core lines. It is best to connect the 2 rear headports to eachother with a coolant crossover wich your intake should have i believe.
3.yep get rid of it.
4. Correct it would dead head... I would keep it if you can.
5. As long as the coolant connects one head to the other in the rear your good. No need for the barb.
2. Yes you can delete the heater core lines. It is best to connect the 2 rear headports to eachother with a coolant crossover wich your intake should have i believe.
3.yep get rid of it.
4. Correct it would dead head... I would keep it if you can.
5. As long as the coolant connects one head to the other in the rear your good. No need for the barb.
How is the rear of yours getting plubmed? I see you cut off the crossover tube area off the manifold, but your phenolic spacer looks like it blocks off the head ports. Was that photo before you added separate cooling ports back in?
My intake has a crossover, but my heads have the rear ports blocked with freeze plugs so nothing would even make it into the crossover unless I removed them. I assume the GT supercar had no rear crossover in the intake manifold.
But say I popped those freeze plugs out of the rear of the heads so the fluid entered the crossover in the manifold, what good would it do if there's no heater core lines or a recirc line off the rear? If there's nowhere for the fluid to go (as in a heater core or a recirc line back to the front), each side would just deadhead to the other since both heads are parallel in cooling path. That's what's making me think I'd need a recirc out of that crossover to the back of the water pump to allow fluid into the crossover from the heads and out of the crossover to somewhere else.
My intake has a crossover, but my heads have the rear ports blocked with freeze plugs so nothing would even make it into the crossover unless I removed them. I assume the GT supercar had no rear crossover in the intake manifold.
But say I popped those freeze plugs out of the rear of the heads so the fluid entered the crossover in the manifold, what good would it do if there's no heater core lines or a recirc line off the rear? If there's nowhere for the fluid to go (as in a heater core or a recirc line back to the front), each side would just deadhead to the other since both heads are parallel in cooling path. That's what's making me think I'd need a recirc out of that crossover to the back of the water pump to allow fluid into the crossover from the heads and out of the crossover to somewhere else.
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The crossover is used to balance temp in the heads. Some 4v heads need this to eliminate hot spots.... Your heads i dont think were an issue. They are the best out there. I forgot yours were real gt heads. You may not need the crossover. However it may be possible that there could be a stagnet spot in the rear of the heads that a re-circ line would solve. Perhaps someone else will chime in.
My setup is unique.... Here are some pics.
My setup is unique.... Here are some pics.
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Very cool setup. Just curious though why you cut off the coolant crossover in the manifold then essentially have the same routing with the separate fittings and hose. I'm assuming purely to isolate heat off the lower intake manifold?
I get the intent of balancing heat with the crossover, but I'd think it would only be an air trap if there wasn't any circulation coming out to a heater core or recirc back front, and just a line connecting one side to the other.
I'm going to see how much room I have in the valley with the GT500 lower intake and see if I can do a return to the back of the water pump on the back side of the block like the 2v trucks beneath the lower intake.
I get the intent of balancing heat with the crossover, but I'd think it would only be an air trap if there wasn't any circulation coming out to a heater core or recirc back front, and just a line connecting one side to the other.
I'm going to see how much room I have in the valley with the GT500 lower intake and see if I can do a return to the back of the water pump on the back side of the block like the 2v trucks beneath the lower intake.
Correct. Just trying to keep as much heat away from my intake manifold and intercooler as possible... I was getting tired of heat soak. I ran a gen2r last year and the few times i ran it at the track i watched it start to pull timing. Im hoping this combined with a 7 gallon tank and stewart pump will eliminate it. The new twin screw will lower iat2 temps as well.
......This is not really a answer with much merit behind it but If the ford gt did not need a crossover and you have a gt block and heads. I would think there would be no reason for you to remove the plugs in the heads... Look at the baddgt standing mile record holder. If that car is fine with the plugs in the heads im sure yours can stay in as well.
I hope someone with more expierence will chime in on this subject.
I hope someone with more expierence will chime in on this subject.
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Thanks. Makes sense from the heat isolation standpoint.
As for the crossover, all I'm thinking is if the GT500 heads are essentially the same, why did Ford put a crossover into those. Does the badgt standing mile record holder definitely not have one added in done on the back of the heads? Or does anyone know if the 5.4L Cobra Jets have the heads plugged in the back since the CJ lower intake manifold doesn't have any HC provision so it would just deadhead between cylinders and not really have any cross flow. I'm sure I'd be fine either way since on one hand that's how the GT was setup and on the other that's how the CJ was setup, but I'm never satisfied with stock just because it was stock, there's always slightly better ways for many things.
As for the crossover, all I'm thinking is if the GT500 heads are essentially the same, why did Ford put a crossover into those. Does the badgt standing mile record holder definitely not have one added in done on the back of the heads? Or does anyone know if the 5.4L Cobra Jets have the heads plugged in the back since the CJ lower intake manifold doesn't have any HC provision so it would just deadhead between cylinders and not really have any cross flow. I'm sure I'd be fine either way since on one hand that's how the GT was setup and on the other that's how the CJ was setup, but I'm never satisfied with stock just because it was stock, there's always slightly better ways for many things.
oh and 2 more things....still interested in that PS pump when you get a chance, and what size KB is that you're going with?
Gt500 uses the crossover for the heater core. This may be its only purpose. I have not heard of these cylinder heads having hot spots in the rear, but that could be due to the factory crossover.
Had some bad weather this last week. Didnt get a chance to remove it yet. I should get to it this week. The kb is for my street car so its just a little 4.2
Had some bad weather this last week. Didnt get a chance to remove it yet. I should get to it this week. The kb is for my street car so its just a little 4.2
I know on the GT500 it's for the heater core, but the CJ lower intake has the same crossover but no heater core provision on it, it's blocked off in the casting, so I'm curious how Ford set those up. Did they plug the heads since that crossover doesn't go anywhere with no HC, or did they leave them connected and open to the coolant system. Just be interesting to know.
No problem on the PS pump, I'm still picking away at this between other projects, just don't forget about me lol
I was hoping the KB was a 4.7 and that you'd want to trade for a polished one haha. I scored a polished one off Ryan Aycock for a deal too good to pass up, but decided I want to go for a more blacked out theme so I'll be selling my polished one to buy a black one.
No problem on the PS pump, I'm still picking away at this between other projects, just don't forget about me lol
I was hoping the KB was a 4.7 and that you'd want to trade for a polished one haha. I scored a polished one off Ryan Aycock for a deal too good to pass up, but decided I want to go for a more blacked out theme so I'll be selling my polished one to buy a black one.
Just wanted to share how I ended up doing my crossover plumbing. I popped the freeze plugs out of the rears of the GT heads, and I drilled & tapped the boss in the CJ lower intake where the GT500 version would have had it's heater core barb. Then on the back side of the water pump I drilled & tapped for a return fitting, just as how the 2v setups get their return to the back of the WP. I then also popped the freeze plug out of the inner-rear portion of the WP hole so that return would make it to the back side of the WP, just like the 2v's.
I still need to figure out the front of the head bypass, but I think I'll keep it very similar to the GT500 method, and just use AN fittings on the bottom port of the t-stat housing and just run it down to my lower radiator hose and tee it in.
For the rear-return, I used XRP clamshell fittings & wiggins clamps, so it's a piece of cake to R&R, and no worries about fitting AN wrenches behind the motor when I assemble this thing.
I still need to figure out the front of the head bypass, but I think I'll keep it very similar to the GT500 method, and just use AN fittings on the bottom port of the t-stat housing and just run it down to my lower radiator hose and tee it in.
For the rear-return, I used XRP clamshell fittings & wiggins clamps, so it's a piece of cake to R&R, and no worries about fitting AN wrenches behind the motor when I assemble this thing.
does someone have a photo they can send me of the GT500 PS line where it attaches to the pump?
Does it look like this...
https://www.cjponyparts.com/power-steering-pressure-hose-gt500-2007-2010/p/PSHP57/
With that smooth barb end with the captive o-ring where it looks like it slips into the pump and bolts on the flange?
My 2v setup the PS pressure line threaded into the pump, so I simply swapped it for an M16 to 6AN fitting. This fitting on my 4v PS pump looks different like it may take that style pressure hose. Trying to figure out if I can still use the same M16x6AN adaptor and fully remove the fitting that's in there now, or if I should get a factory hard line, and just cut the other end off and use a ferrule connection to convert it to AN further down the line.
Does it look like this...
https://www.cjponyparts.com/power-steering-pressure-hose-gt500-2007-2010/p/PSHP57/
With that smooth barb end with the captive o-ring where it looks like it slips into the pump and bolts on the flange?
My 2v setup the PS pressure line threaded into the pump, so I simply swapped it for an M16 to 6AN fitting. This fitting on my 4v PS pump looks different like it may take that style pressure hose. Trying to figure out if I can still use the same M16x6AN adaptor and fully remove the fitting that's in there now, or if I should get a factory hard line, and just cut the other end off and use a ferrule connection to convert it to AN further down the line.
Bump.....anyone have a pic of the PS line/fitting into their PS pump? Few in this thread but I can't see exactly how the line physically attaches to the pump, what holds it in place, as it doesn't appear to be a threaded connection on the line itself.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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