And????? ...
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Possible 2007 Cobra Engine News
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And????? ...
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2000 MGT
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Re: Re: Possible 2007 Cobra Engine News
probably not.....just like the current Z06 "stomps" the Cobra right?? :lol:
probably not.....just like the current Z06 "stomps" the Cobra right?? :lol:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GT Block Aluminum or Iron?
I'm a tech at a Ford dealer and within the past week and a half, I've seen 2 vehicles in for this. One an Expedition and the other a Lightning that is still here right now. The expedition also has a 5.4. I have yet to see any 4.6's with this though.
Re: Re: Re: Possible 2007 Cobra Engine News
Well, it doesnt stomp it in the quarter mile, but does beat the Cobra. And the ZO6 "stomps" the Cobra in every other category, so overall I would call it a "stomping". BUT these cars were not ment to be compared and are not in the same class, so its not a big deal that the ZO6 beats the Cobra I guess.
Lets keep this thread on the topic of rumors, thoughts, etc about the engine in the next SVT Mustang. If you would like have a discussion about the Cobra vs. ZO6, start another thread. It will probably be a long one because there are plenty of blind and/or hard headed Cobra owners that think there 35k car is comparable to a ZO6, its usually a lot of fun to read.
Well, it doesnt stomp it in the quarter mile, but does beat the Cobra. And the ZO6 "stomps" the Cobra in every other category, so overall I would call it a "stomping". BUT these cars were not ment to be compared and are not in the same class, so its not a big deal that the ZO6 beats the Cobra I guess.
Lets keep this thread on the topic of rumors, thoughts, etc about the engine in the next SVT Mustang. If you would like have a discussion about the Cobra vs. ZO6, start another thread. It will probably be a long one because there are plenty of blind and/or hard headed Cobra owners that think there 35k car is comparable to a ZO6, its usually a lot of fun to read.
The hood theory is BS, those who have driven a MACH 1 know.
The deck high on a 5.4 is not even a inch higher than the 4.6.
The hood scoop on the MACH is well over 1 inch.
On a side note, the SVT Cobra will never be built to compete against a Z06.
The deck high on a 5.4 is not even a inch higher than the 4.6.
The hood scoop on the MACH is well over 1 inch.
On a side note, the SVT Cobra will never be built to compete against a Z06.
The hood theory is based on the fact that a SC 5,4 was too high. Perhaps they were testing a different blower, perhaps it is due to the new Mustangs body. I really dont know what the requirment for the hood height is. I am guessing it is something like the hood cant stick up past some # of inches beyond the base of the windshield, I relly dont know.
Hood heights of mules and test cars don't necessarily have anything to do with the final product. In fact, these are often disguised to be misleading.
Also note that there was a Lincoln LS runing around Dearborn for a while with a 6" tall aluminum bump bolted onto the hood - to clear who knows what. Or, it may just have been the size that somebody came up with to clear a taller engine and some test gear on top. Or to play a game with the press. A spy pic ended up in AutoWeek.
I for one am not happy with any 5.4 rumors - they are just that until an announcement is made.
Also, the 5.4 is not the greatest engine we could hope for... it's rod length is enormous, it's a larger engine than the 4.6 (taller, and therefore wider), it's not and will not be a freely revving engine that will be exciting to drive.
Cramming it into a Mustang engine bay will produce exactly the same type of heat retention issues that the ye olde SN95 nag suffers from... the new engine compartment is only ~an inch wider on each side of the frame. This is not what we need in there.
Also note that there was a Lincoln LS runing around Dearborn for a while with a 6" tall aluminum bump bolted onto the hood - to clear who knows what. Or, it may just have been the size that somebody came up with to clear a taller engine and some test gear on top. Or to play a game with the press. A spy pic ended up in AutoWeek.
I for one am not happy with any 5.4 rumors - they are just that until an announcement is made.
Also, the 5.4 is not the greatest engine we could hope for... it's rod length is enormous, it's a larger engine than the 4.6 (taller, and therefore wider), it's not and will not be a freely revving engine that will be exciting to drive.
Cramming it into a Mustang engine bay will produce exactly the same type of heat retention issues that the ye olde SN95 nag suffers from... the new engine compartment is only ~an inch wider on each side of the frame. This is not what we need in there.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GT Block Aluminum or Iron?
That's weird since the 4.6's and 5.4's share the same 2V heads? All I'm saying is that the boosted 97, sprayed 96 and NA 01 have never had this problem. This is even the first time I had heard about it. Not saying it doesn't happen, I've just been around ALOT of them and this is the first I've heard.:beer:
That's weird since the 4.6's and 5.4's share the same 2V heads? All I'm saying is that the boosted 97, sprayed 96 and NA 01 have never had this problem. This is even the first time I had heard about it. Not saying it doesn't happen, I've just been around ALOT of them and this is the first I've heard.:beer:
Long stroke = torque. With more lower speed torque you reduce the need to turn the motor so hard. Ford already gave us a small displacement motor you can't turn. The DOHC guys should be able to turn 8K from the factory and the SOHC should be at least 7K. With small displacement motors you have to turn them to make HP. Ford didn't want to do that, so you get the lower HP numbers that we all got used to until the 03Cobras.
Yep, the 5.4 isn't the "best" motor we could hope for. However, there is no replacement for displacement. The 03+ Cobra guys know this due to the extra 110 cubic inches setting on their motors. ;-) I think the "best" motor I could think of would be a 368 cuin aluminum 5.4 based motor. Just open the bores up to 3.7 and give us some good displacement. Obviously a fully forged and balanced rotating assembly would be on the list. A compression ratio in the neighborhood of 10.2 : 1 would be nice. Now if we could just get somebody at Ford to quit screwing the pooch in the motor program.:beer:
Of course a long stroke means more torque. But, the 5.4 has the longest rod length in the history of any Ford V-8. That doesn't make for a strong engine and it reduces the ablity to turn the engine at higher RPM. The 5.4 is the bastard child of the mod motor family, an engine that was never intended form the start, and only put in place because more displacement was needed. It's importance in the overall scheme of things is primarily for trucks, and even then only until the all-new 6.2 engine is ready. Then it will be relegated to a mid-range engine and we won't see much more development. It was only in the Ford GT, for example, because there wasn't any other engine ready for use. Another 2 years, and it's gone from that family of cars, replace by a shorter-stroke V-10.
Yes, it would be great to see the 4.6 rev... and worse yet it used too. The 96-98 engines revved - they wanted to rev. The 99s and up were retuned and the redline was lowered. They don't "feel" like they want to rev to me.
An interesting study was done by Ford several years back... they built a 9000-RPM 4.6 to explore the upper boundaries of the engine. They found that architecturally the engine was capable of it, although breathing was a problem until they rotally reworked the cylinder head to move the valves away from the cylinder walls. They found and resolved numerous problems with thngs like the snout of the crankshaft (this was the first time this issue had come up), and of course the engine accessories would never have survived on a production motor. There's a paper written up b y their engineers on this effort, and I have a copy.
And, mileage would be a serious issue. "Low and slow" is better for mileage testing.
What's really needed is a total redesign of the modular engine family, but given Ford's financial staus we're never going to get it. Meanwhile, there are considerably more advanced V-8s from several other manufacturers and the mod motor family is falling behind. The Jag 4.2 is a far better engine than the modular motor, and nowhere near the end of it's development life.
Yes, it would be great to see the 4.6 rev... and worse yet it used too. The 96-98 engines revved - they wanted to rev. The 99s and up were retuned and the redline was lowered. They don't "feel" like they want to rev to me.
An interesting study was done by Ford several years back... they built a 9000-RPM 4.6 to explore the upper boundaries of the engine. They found that architecturally the engine was capable of it, although breathing was a problem until they rotally reworked the cylinder head to move the valves away from the cylinder walls. They found and resolved numerous problems with thngs like the snout of the crankshaft (this was the first time this issue had come up), and of course the engine accessories would never have survived on a production motor. There's a paper written up b y their engineers on this effort, and I have a copy.
And, mileage would be a serious issue. "Low and slow" is better for mileage testing.
What's really needed is a total redesign of the modular engine family, but given Ford's financial staus we're never going to get it. Meanwhile, there are considerably more advanced V-8s from several other manufacturers and the mod motor family is falling behind. The Jag 4.2 is a far better engine than the modular motor, and nowhere near the end of it's development life.
Why are people getting down on the 5.4? Ford used it in the GT. Hot Rod magazine interviewed Coletti and he said that Ford didn't spend all this time designing a brand new engine to put it in one car.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0311_gt/index.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0311_gt/index.html
An all aluminum with forged internals 5.4L would be the best possible motor for the cobra. At least GM guys won't be able to carry on the whole "You have a blower." excuse.
Who gives a crap what excuse they use, really? I'm sick of hearing GM- and their groupies- whine like that.
Bottom line is- if a car with a blower works, why not use it? Why is this "cheating"?
Oh, right--using OHV & a blower is cheating --especially for those who use pushrods-- Like GM.
I really don't care what their excuse to whine is...
:lol::lol::lol:
you don't have to listen as you leave them in the dust.
Ford is in business to make money and the best "bang for their buck" formula will be used to develop the new Cobra.
The Mustang is an inexpensive, high volume sports car. The new 05 Mustangs will retail less than the 04's despite the new development costs etc. Good pricing strategy. The Mustang is a Mustang - everyman's sportscar...
The SVT Cobra, is a factory tuner spin off the base V8 GT platform. Thus price has to again be consistent. There are so many 03/04 Cobras still on the lots because the price was, IMO, too high for a special edition "Mustang". I expect the next Cobra to be the same (or lower pricing) vs the 03/04.
The Whipple website hints that they will be supplying blowers for the "07 Cobra". Other posts state MM&FF has hinted at a blown 4.6 as well.
Most cost effective for Ford, to maintain a consistent (or slightly lower) price is say a Whipple 4.6 (more power) - iron block (or alum. to help the weight issue); or perhaps the 5.4 blown as well like the Ford GT...
I do not think that the price can go too much higher than current, since this will further erode the market that they serve... providing an affordable base platform with good performance that can be easily modified.
My guess = blown 4.6 (iron block) or 5.4 producing 475 to 500 hp (vs 04 425hp); 5.0 Cammer is too expensive currently (and less power).
The Mustang is an inexpensive, high volume sports car. The new 05 Mustangs will retail less than the 04's despite the new development costs etc. Good pricing strategy. The Mustang is a Mustang - everyman's sportscar...
The SVT Cobra, is a factory tuner spin off the base V8 GT platform. Thus price has to again be consistent. There are so many 03/04 Cobras still on the lots because the price was, IMO, too high for a special edition "Mustang". I expect the next Cobra to be the same (or lower pricing) vs the 03/04.
The Whipple website hints that they will be supplying blowers for the "07 Cobra". Other posts state MM&FF has hinted at a blown 4.6 as well.
Most cost effective for Ford, to maintain a consistent (or slightly lower) price is say a Whipple 4.6 (more power) - iron block (or alum. to help the weight issue); or perhaps the 5.4 blown as well like the Ford GT...
I do not think that the price can go too much higher than current, since this will further erode the market that they serve... providing an affordable base platform with good performance that can be easily modified.
My guess = blown 4.6 (iron block) or 5.4 producing 475 to 500 hp (vs 04 425hp); 5.0 Cammer is too expensive currently (and less power).
You dont have to worry about the Camaro guys whining, they dont even have a car anymore
I'm not sure the 5.4 can make 475-500hp NA in mass production form. I think it would be too terrible on gas and probably unreliable, not sure though. It doesnt seam as if a SC aluminum 4.6 will happen either as there was an article a while ago where Ford reported testing this setup and had "disasterous" results. Another iron block SC 4.6 will just be another top heavy boat anchor stuck in a Mustang Body. Cobra might even weigh in at 3700lbs then as the new Mustang weighs slightly more than the old.
I'm not sure the 5.4 can make 475-500hp NA in mass production form. I think it would be too terrible on gas and probably unreliable, not sure though. It doesnt seam as if a SC aluminum 4.6 will happen either as there was an article a while ago where Ford reported testing this setup and had "disasterous" results. Another iron block SC 4.6 will just be another top heavy boat anchor stuck in a Mustang Body. Cobra might even weigh in at 3700lbs then as the new Mustang weighs slightly more than the old.
Yeah, I'm really sick of some of the GM guys who consistently cry and use the "blower excuse". It is what it is. They need to get over it. For years the Mustang's engines have always had a cubic inch disadvantage and you never hear us whine about that. They just mod their cars to make them faster.
I really hope SVT continues to supercharge their vehicles. It has become their performance trademark. A 500hp SC 5.4 (detuned GT version) would really be the way to go. If you think our current Cobra engines are mod friendly, imagine the possibilities.
:lol: :thumbsup:
"For years the Mustang's engines have always had a cubic inch disadvantage and you never hear us whine about that."
I have heard tons of Mustang owners whine about just that actually.
I have heard tons of Mustang owners whine about just that actually.
:lol:
Actually, we haven't the last 2 years. :-D
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