ProCharger or TwinTurbos?

[RDJ]

ok I have read a number of threads about the various options regarding forced induction on the 93-95 Cobras. Not really happy with the info out there so am starting a new thread with specific questions.

As many of you know I am having my 95 Cobra rebuilt including having an engine built based on the new 302BOSS block with AFR185 heads. 3year project up to this point but that is a whole nother story. Block and heads are being taken to the engine builder this weekend so we are finally getting started on it (new shop). The new shop is not real happy at all with the plan and are coming up with a new one they think can save me some money. Initially I was going to go N/A but the heads have been worked to the point I would have something like 11 to 1 and would make a streetable ride almost impossible due to emissions and what not. so to get the compression ratio down we are going to add a power adder and go with a lower compression ratio and milder cam.

In discussions today we talked about using a ProCharger 1fb212-sci and I started asking about a TT setup. And then I started looking at other superchargers like the vortech and what not and now I am more confused than ever LOL! I am just grateful the 04 came with what it did so I didn't have to make that choice. so the questions:

1. Gas mileage? I seem to be seeing that the TT set up is better for gas mileage than the Procharger. Ya'lls experience?

2. Am I correct that any system that will fit the 89-93 will fit the 94-95? Searching for this stuff further shows that the 94-95s are the red-headed stepchildren of the mustang world LOL!

3. What are the real advantages/disadvantages between single turbo and twin?

4. I am getting that TT will make more power than the Supercharger correct?

5. Which is more reliable? procharger or turbo?

6. Cost - Procharger is almost half the cost of the hellion TT but apparently close to the same as a single Turbo?

7. fit and finish. Whatever I do is going to be polished for the shows.

School me guys ....Thanks.

 

[Tremor]

OP

You have alot of options today for going FI.

Who is going to tune your mustang ? <--Are they known for tunning a turbo setup ?

In the end it all depends on how much money you have to play with. Because any combo can be made sick. Single turbo, Procharger,Vortech etc with the correct gears suspension and most Important Tune :beer:

 

[RDJ]

OP

You have alot of options today for going FI.

Who is going to tune your mustang ? <--Are they known for tunning a turbo setup ?

In the end it all depends on how much money you have to play with. Because any combo can be made sick. Single turbo, Procharger,Vortech etc with the correct gears suspension and most Important Tune :beer:

yeah this much I know LOL! The guy tuning it is the same guy that tuned my 04 and did a very good job and yeah he has tuned turbos. don't know if I would say he is "known for it" but I can find out.

I am having the suspension, along with the clutch assembly added to. Right now I have 3.55s but will probably move up to 4.10s but that part is still on the drawing board. I am lucky enough to be able to do all of this at the same time with a good budget. One reason I am asking is that while I want to contain costs I will spend what I need to. It really isn't a matter of being able to afford it as do I want to afford it. it would be so much easier if I could just say hey I can't afford that LOL! Thus my asking about the pros and cons of the various options ... so I can make an informed decision.

Also I am NOT a drag racer but the car is going to be going to the strip so I can get some Times and maybe brag a little bit LOL! I am more of an autocross road course kinda guy. so suspension will be set up for that if I decide to get back into it when I get done out here. :beer:

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Well I'm pretty sure for MPG both the turbos and the S/C are going to be the same. What RPM can you spin with built block?? That is going to determine what FI application you should go. Centri blowers love RPM since they build boost with RPM. Also you had mentioned gearing. I would hold off on that until you know which FI you are going. Most 04 guys are running either 3.55 or sometimes 3.27's to build boost faster with the turbos.
LB for LB the TT's will make for HP/TQ than a S/C.. If it were me I would just go TT. It's unique and you don't see very many of them rolling around. Plus adjustable boost by a push of a botton is effing sweet!!

 

[LS1PUSSOUT]

procharger so if i ever get lined up against you im gonna drag you with my my turbo...

 

[NoRdO]

procharger so if i ever get lined up against you im gonna drag you with my my turbo...

HaHa.

To answer your question about gas mileage, I would think that tt would get better mileage as it is a more efficient setup and isn't run off the belt system. I would think that ProCharger would be much more reliable than a Turbo setup because there is less to go wrong plus you don't have to tap into the oil pan and worry about drain back issues that you might see with a turbo system(I don't think you would have issues with the hellion system). I love the reliability of my procharger but I will be going TT in the future to make more power. Turbo systems make power with less boost.

 

[JGIPSON]

Boost

Procharger will be much easier to install and will likely have less problems than a turbo system. Especially a twin system. If I had a 94-95 car, I would not buy Prochargers 94/95 kit, I would do a renegade foxbody kit with at least a D1-SC and a 3-core i/c. Very clean looking and very easy to install. Best of all, you will not have to babysit the system. As far as the procharger not making as much power than turbo, get the right blower in the first place. Most people get the P1-SC or even the D1-SC which are good blowers, but you cant compare them to twin turbos. Now a F1 up to a F1-R will make insane power from 3000rpm and up usually ending up from 750-1000hp with the F1's. Get a F2 and you better be ready for 1100-1600hp. Gas mileage will all depend on your right foot. Since turbos come into boost quicker, I would think it would use more fuel down low. Again controlled by your foot. Anybody can drive fast in a turbo car, but if you can shift like mad with the right suspension and gearing, the Procharger will be hard to beat

 

[Furinox]

Procharger will be much easier to install and will likely have less problems than a turbo system. Especially a twin system. If I had a 94-95 car, I would not buy Prochargers 94/95 kit, I would do a renegade foxbody kit with at least a D1-SC and a 3-core i/c. Very clean looking and very easy to install. Best of all, you will not have to babysit the system. As far as the procharger not making as much power than turbo, get the right blower in the first place. Most people get the P1-SC or even the D1-SC which are good blowers, but you cant compare them to twin turbos. Now a F1 up to a F1-R will make insane power from 3000rpm and up usually ending up from 750-1000hp with the F1's. Get a F2 and you better be ready for 1100-1600hp. Gas mileage will all depend on your right foot. Since turbos come into boost quicker, I would think it would use more fuel down low. Again controlled by your foot. Anybody can drive fast in a turbo car, but if you can shift like mad with the right suspension and gearing, the Procharger will be hard to beat

+1.

I'd definitely consider a single turbo, but I'd never go twins. Twice as much stuff to go wrong. There's a guy in the mach section right now that got rid of his twins and is installing an f1 procharger.

 

[JGIPSON]

Boost

Corey at Livernois has a Mach 1 5.0 stroker with a F1-A and he runs 10's at 145 with a automatic. That is one fast car with insane top end.

 

[KingCobra10Sec]

procharger so if i ever get lined up against you im gonna drag you with my my turbo...

Dragging him with a 62MM single turbo, LMAO if he gets the F1A he will leave you in the dust.

 

[meaty mac]

ok I have read a number of threads about the various options regarding forced induction on the 93-95 Cobras. Not really happy with the info out there so am starting a new thread with specific questions.

As many of you know I am having my 95 Cobra rebuilt including having an engine built based on the new 302BOSS block with AFR185 heads. 3year project up to this point but that is a whole nother story. Block and heads are being taken to the engine builder this weekend so we are finally getting started on it (new shop). The new shop is not real happy at all with the plan and are coming up with a new one they think can save me some money. Initially I was going to go N/A but the heads have been worked to the point I would have something like 11 to 1 and would make a streetable ride almost impossible due to emissions and what not. so to get the compression ratio down we are going to add a power adder and go with a lower compression ratio and milder cam.

In discussions today we talked about using a ProCharger 1fb212-sci and I started asking about a TT setup. And then I started looking at other superchargers like the vortech and what not and now I am more confused than ever LOL! I am just grateful the 04 came with what it did so I didn't have to make that choice. so the questions:

1. Gas mileage? I seem to be seeing that the TT set up is better for gas mileage than the Procharger. Ya'lls experience?

2. Am I correct that any system that will fit the 89-93 will fit the 94-95? Searching for this stuff further shows that the 94-95s are the red-headed stepchildren of the mustang world LOL!

3. What are the real advantages/disadvantages between single turbo and twin?

4. I am getting that TT will make more power than the Supercharger correct?

5. Which is more reliable? procharger or turbo?

6. Cost - Procharger is almost half the cost of the hellion TT but apparently close to the same as a single Turbo?

7. fit and finish. Whatever I do is going to be polished for the shows.

School me guys ....Thanks.

1. I would think that the turbo would offer a slight advantage in off boost, cruising type driving. less parasitic drag.

2. Yes, the 94 has the computer from hell. nothing a A9L from a 93 wont cure though.

3. The PROPER twin set up has the ability to spool up quicker. either by relying on the smaller size or one of the two turbos may have a smaller housing on the hot side, enabling a quicker response. (i think-someone will shed some more light on this)

4. Depends on the systems involved. a TT with 46's would spool up quick and be a blast on the street compared to a F1R, but on the track...
i think what you are getting at is a pound for pound thing though. in theory- yes

5. Probably the most controversial question of all time regarding these two forms of F.I.
If you were to ask 10 people this, you would probably get 10 different answers. all i can say is that a high quality ball bearing turbo is loved by alot of racers out there. that should tell you something. never any stress on the crank also. not a real consideration unless you go to a really big blower (which you sound interested in), but i had to put that in here since you did ask about reliability over i assume a long period of time.

6. Turbos are expensive fo' sho'

Keep in mind that i am no expert and these are just my humble opinions lol.

One question i have to ask: how are you going to drop the compression? you said that you are at 11:1 now. F.I wont cure this. maybe i interpreted it wrong.
Nitrous will work on that setup
Good luck pie guy :beer:

 

[RDJ]

first let me say thanks to those that have posted up so far. I haven't built an engine in years and so am way behind the 8ball on the current technology so I very much appreciate the input and opinions.

1. I would think that the turbo would offer a slight advantage in off boost, cruising type driving. less parasitic drag.

This tracks with what I have been reading over the past few days ...

2. Yes, the 94 has the computer from hell. nothing a A9L from a 93 wont cure though.

yeah I have heard nothing but horror stories. I have had a bad experience regarding putting a chip in my 95 and while my builder is talking about keeping the current computer I may spring for the bucks to put in a newer one and having it installed so I can use an SCT or something along those lines.

3. The PROPER twin set up has the ability to spool up quicker. either by relying on the smaller size or one of the two turbos may have a smaller housing on the hot side, enabling a quicker response. (i think-someone will shed some more light on this)

good to know this I am still up in the air on this so will be spending more time.

4. Depends on the systems involved. a TT with 46's would spool up quick and be a blast on the street compared to a F1R, but on the track...
i think what you are getting at is a pound for pound thing though. in theory- yes

To be honest I will likely not be getting an F1R more than I will ever use or need. One of the few times I have or will EVER let use or need affect my decision LOL

5. Probably the most controversial question of all time regarding these two forms of F.I.
If you were to ask 10 people this, you would probably get 10 different answers. all i can say is that a high quality ball bearing turbo is loved by alot of racers out there. that should tell you something. never any stress on the crank also. not a real consideration unless you go to a really big blower (which you sound interested in), but i had to put that in here since you did ask about reliability over i assume a long period of time.

yeah looking to try to make it bullet proof if I can. Well as much as any built application can be. this is one of the mac vs pc questions of the car world.

6. Turbos are expensive fo' sho'

yeah I may go with a excellent quality single and a new computer rather than twins. I think I will come out money ahead

Keep in mind that i am no expert and these are just my humble opinions lol.

noted but your opinions so far have tracked pretty well with everything else I have seen

One question i have to ask: how are you going to drop the compression? you said that you are at 11:1 now. F.I wont cure this. maybe i interpreted it wrong.

yeah I know. I am having the engine built and installed since I am out here in the sandbox and want to get it done. so I have no clue how they are going to lower it. the purpose to going F.I. instead of N/A is because the way the heads have already been worked. I talked to the shop about maybe selling them and buying new heads that we can work from scratch but I would lose more money than I already have. here is a clip from an email I got from him:

I am now a procharger dealer and I think we can get better results using a bullet proof engine but not going crazy on the cam and intake and going with the supercharger instead. The have cali carb friendly kits that should pass smog test if we control the boost for test time. My thinking is if we build an engine that runs well natural then it will not work well boosted. If we try and get max power out of a natural engine that requires big cam it will make emissions impossible. Looking at their (the former shops) numbers we can save alot. Some of their numbers seem very high to me. Let me know if you like this idea so I am not wasting time.

passing emissions with minimal reconfiguration is critical because I have to have a streetable car. apparently we couldn't do that very well without going F.I. . So after a rather lengthy phone call I have decided to go F.I. it is just a matter of which one and how much boost.

should note that I will get a better deal going ProCharger since he is a dealer. He also is a Maximum Motorsports dealer so I will save some bucks on the suspension as well. He is not pushing me either way and will do turbos if I decide to go that way.

Nitrous will work on that setup
Good luck pie guy :beer:

LOL no nitrous .... and thanks I am going to need all the luck I can get :beer:

 

[My94GT]

i went through all this myself. i wanted a turbo in the damndest way just because at the time noone i really knew in my area had a turbo mustang. (now they are everywhere)

i ended up working with the shop who did my car (JPC) and since they work with superchargers i went with one of those instead. now as for what i wanted, originally i wanted a F1 procharger with a dart blocked 331 and a viper spec t56. after figuring out it was so much money for something i didnt really need we discussed a different route.

i ended up with teh combo i have now, built stock block 331 trick flow top end, custom cam. as for the blower i wanted a pro charger but i was advised for a street car to go with vortech. from what i was told the prochargers like to be reved high and that i would like the street manors of a vortech over the pro charger. weither this is true or not i dont know, all i know is im happy as can be with mine.

i ended up with the new v3 self contained set up. i originally had a v2 s trim but had some problems with it and steped up to the V3 and have been nothing but glad i did.

hope this at all helps:beer:

 

[Blown02]

if you have to ask then you should get the procharger

 

[rubber duck]

Haha, shit will go wrong with either setup, it's the only thing you can count on.

 

[KingCobra10Sec]

I will have to say a procharger is the most maintenance and worry free method of FI

 

[rubber duck]

I will have to say a procharger is the most maintenance and worry free method of FI

Just keep a spare belt in the trunk.

 

[My94GT]

the v3 vortech is also self contained.

 

[speedofsound]

There's a guy in the mach section right now that got rid of his twins and is installing an f1 procharger.

...me. I'd take a single setup over TT's anyday. oh and screw low mounts! :lol:

 

[Blown02]

how about this..
my last combo..very simple.. forged 8.5:1 bottom end.. STOCK 01 cobra top end(everything stock).. twin 57s.. full spool below 3500rpms.. 815rwhp@23psi could have gone 850rwhp@23psi.. 24.7mpg..

both options are going to make great power. for some, a supercharger makes more sense, for others there is no option except for turbos. just taste. for me, i would never go back to a supercharger, unless it was on a different setup and it was a twinscrew. i had a novi 2k and theres no comparison. turbos are awesome. plus controlling horsepower with a flick of a button is pretty cool too. better mpg. more hp. properly sized single or twin setup will yield some incredible numbers and fast spool time. for a single turbo IMO you have two choices.. an oversized turbo that wont spool up that great, but make good top end power(TT top end power).. or you get a properly sized turbo that makes good power up top and spools up like twin turbos... but twin turbos have more parts, so more stuff can go wrong, and the cost is higher.. more weight too. it was a no brainer TT for me.