Pro's and con's of a Kenny Bell -VS- F1A

[blowngt]

do you have any idea what the triangle car has done to it ?? and how much boost they're running. probably not. look at the muscle mustangs and fast fords test on the procharger. this is a good comparison. for a normal terminator. did they even get into the 10's ??

Yeah, I've read a thing or 2 about what's been done to that car. Your statement from earlier..."and yes the KB is a far superior blower on the street and at the track over the F1 or any other centri for that matter." is a bit overstated.

I won't argue that dollar for dollar the KB is a better choice for the terminator, but please don't try to convince me that a centri can't compete with a KB or that it is a far superior blower. Find me 1 car in the NMRA or FFW circuit that runs a screw type blower. You have to think that there's a reason for that, don't you???

 

[smashedheadcat]

smashedhead -

so unless your saying jimmy from triangle speed shop is running pump gas, then your post has no credibility. the triangle car is sick, but it is also completely transformed. and he is running wayyyy more than 17 psi. that sir is a fact. and do you drive your car in the 5,000-6,500 rpm range all the time ?? i doubt it. that is when the procharger car takes off. if it is such a good blower, then why is every jumping ship that buys them ?? for 95% of the people on these forums, the kenne bell is superior. just ask.

We are not talking pump gas here. We are talking about which blower is superior. You car on 17psi with a 75 shot won't last long on pump gas. At WFC the triangle speed car was not running as much boost as you think it was. If you read what was posted above, you'll see that the cars get slower when you rev them higher or add smaller pullies to them. Why? The 6 rib belt. Massive belt slip. The stock procharger pulley and the stock lower powered Jimmie's triangle speed cobra to a WFC victory. A C4 auto with the right stall converter and a solid axle were in the car at the time. Now, it has a built motor, sullivan intake, more boost and a cog drive. How often do you talk to jimmie? You seem to think you know alot about his combo.

 

[longrodLX]

I beg to differ sir. Even on the juice, no KB cobra has gone as fast as Jimmie from Triangle speeds procharged cobra. That is a fact. What you are stating is opinion. Like I mentioned earlier, people blame the blower for a lack of low rpm torque you should be blaming the intake with 2 inch runners.

its a centrifigal blower....it makes power with rpm. i dont care what intake it has on it the only way you can make up for the lack of down low power would be with gears. and you will be seeing a lot more KBs this year at the track

 

[smashedheadcat]

Just about every blower makes power with RPM. And the reason many people don't max out their combos.....is thoughts like you have right there. And how much down low power do you use at the track??

 

[drohan8592]

so you're friends with "jimmy"from triangle speed ?? tell me more about his combo then. it seems like you two are good friends. i never said that i would run my car with a 75 shot on pumpgas. but if you take two 04 cobra's swapped out the blowers, and pullied them both for 17 PSI, you honestly think the procharger car would win ??

also do you think the boys from strictly performance won't be back this year ?? i think the fastest cobra this year will either have a kenne bell or a turbo. and with turbos becoming more and more popular this year, i might have to lean more toward a turbo car.

 

[VENOMIZED03]

Damn guys...lol I am loving this. This is truely getting all of our points across. Thanks to all of you. Alot of informative people on here. Keep them comming

 

[smashedheadcat]

so you're friends with "jimmy"from triangle speed ?? tell me more about his combo then. it seems like you two are good friends. i never said that i would run my car with a 75 shot on pumpgas. but if you take two 04 cobra's swapped out the blowers, and pullied them both for 17 PSI, you honestly think the procharger car would win ??

also do you think the boys from strictly performance won't be back this year ?? i think the fastest cobra this year will either have a kenne bell or a turbo. and with turbos becoming more and more popular this year, i might have to lean more toward a turbo car.

Yes, I'm friends with Jimmy. I'm not going to tell all about his combo, his power etc etc. His car is going to be ran in a competetive heads up class and asked me to keep it quiet. I'll tell ya some basics. It's not a stock shortblock anymore, he's running an air to air intercooler and a sullivan intake. F1a blower with a custom cog drive. He was having problems with spark blowout, so he went with a FAST system. His car is going to be way faster than the KB cars. See here the problem I see with the twin screw cobras..... if they want to go faster, the have to add more nitrous. They run out of steam in the mid 600 range on blower alone. Sure, then can make more power, but you have to spin them so far out of their efficiency range they stop producing the power per pound of boost they did while they were in their efficiency range. Dave King has posted tons of data and is still testing and coming up with the same conclusion. So what you see is, KB cars spinning as hard as the blower can and then spray it. All of Jimmy's accomplishments are on blower only. No need for the spray.

As for bolting up a procharged kit @ 17psi vs a KB at 17psi... I don't know. If the f1a had the 12 rib belt option I'd probably bet against the KB. Especially from a roll. Hard to say though, I'd like to see the race.

 

[jackers]

Ok, lets talk fast cars now. Horsepower by Hermann started with a KB 2.2.

That didnt do it, so he added a solid axle

That didnt do it, so he added an automatic

That didnt do it, so he added a 2.4 with juice

That didnt do it, so he ended up with a hellion turbo

Now, he is debating going with a vortech YSI.

I think he knows a thing or two about going fast.

 

[jackers]

And it looks like the KB just ran out of steam. Dont get me wrong, it is a kick ass street blower, but for people that want to go fast, and i mean real fast, it just isnt enough.

And he did tell me that the F1A kit sparked his interest, just because of the bad rap it got on the internet.

 

[blowngt]

This is a good debate. I'm a procharger guy all the way, but I have to admit that it would be tough not to go with one of the screw type blowers. Much easier and much cheaper.

I still believe that an F1A in the right application would be an awesome street/strip blower and would give plenty of KB/Whipple cars a run for their money. I guess time will tell.......

 

[longrodLX]

Just about every blower makes power with RPM. And the reason many people don't max out their combos.....is thoughts like you have right there. And how much down low power do you use at the track??

i would use as much down low power as i could get to get out of the hole quicker. i would rather start out in front than catch up. why would i not want to make max boost and max torque from 2500rpm up rather than making max power at like 6k rpm with a centri?

 

[longrodLX]

please right click save as
http://www.narmak20.com/Brians703RWHP800RWTQSaleenMPHBuiltandTuned.wmv
show me any centri that makes boost like that

 

[50_Dave]

Show me a twin screw that has beat a centi on race day. There might be one or 2, but most do not.

I was at fun ford weeken here in orlando, and the only ones running 9s either had a turbo, or centrifugal. You gotta rev these engines out in order to run good times.

 

[smashedheadcat]

please right click save as
http://www.narmak20.com/Brians703RWHP800RWTQSaleenMPHBuiltandTuned.wmv
show me any centri that makes boost like that

That car is awesome. But it barely eclipsed the 700rwhp mark with a 100shot of nitrous. While that car is awesome, it does not show me a superior blower. I see the boost dropping off in the high rpms..... Now tell me this...... if this guy wanted say..... 750rwhp. How would he get it?? That blower sure as hell won't do it, what other options does he have?? He's already got a built motor with heads/cams..... he is limited by his blower. The bottle is the only option he has to add power.

 

[smashedheadcat]

i would use as much down low power as i could get to get out of the hole quicker. i would rather start out in front than catch up. why would i not want to make max boost and max torque from 2500rpm up rather than making max power at like 6k rpm with a centri?

That's fine. A centrifical launching on slicks at 5000rpms will leave you and your 600ft lbs of torque (at 2500rpms) in it's wake. And since you car makes less average power from 5000 to redline, the longer you go, the uglier it's going to get.

 

[longrodLX]

That car is awesome. But it barely eclipsed the 700rwhp mark with a 100shot of nitrous. While that car is awesome, it does not show me a superior blower. I see the boost dropping off in the high rpms..... Now tell me this...... if this guy wanted say..... 750rwhp. How would he get it?? That blower sure as hell won't do it, what other options does he have?? He's already got a built motor with heads/cams..... he is limited by his blower. The bottle is the only option he has to add power.

yeah and thats a 2V. boost didnt fall off smart guy...he was spraying so the boost went up while he was spraying

 

[longrodLX]

That's fine. A centrifical launching on slicks at 5000rpms will leave you and your 600ft lbs of torque (at 2500rpms) in it's wake. And since you car makes less average power from 5000 to redline, the longer you go, the uglier it's going to get.

never seen a twin screw which isnt being overboosted make less power than a cntri from 5k to redline. and while your sitting there banging gears to stay in your 2k rpm range of power im using all 5k of mine in every gear with a twinscrew....btw i dont have a twin screw

 

[WDW MKR]

never seen a twin screw which isnt being overboosted make less power than a cntri from 5k to redline. and while your sitting there banging gears to stay in your 2k rpm range of power im using all 5k of mine in every gear with a twinscrew....btw i dont have a twin screw

You honestly think you're using 5k rpm between shifts? If so, I think you're missing a few gears along the way. These tranmissions only drop about 2.5k between shifts.

I still want to see a properly setup 8-rib Vortech kit. I just don't like the location of the Procharger 12-rib. That is, if they're still putting it over on the driver side. Only problem with the Vortech kit is that it uses the air-to-water aftercooler.

 

[mpe331lx]

You guys that are stuck on the positive displacement thing need to let it go. A pd blower on the street is hard to beat due to all that low end torque. For a nice street car that sees an occasional track run stick with a twin screw. For a street/strip or all out race car a positive displacement blower just dont have the efficiency to make serious power without adding nitrous.
Smashedheadcat is speaking the truth. Look at the fastest cars, they are running a big turbo or a big centri. If you went all out no holds barred, a properly built and geared centri car will beat a pd car at the track.
Would I want to drive that centri car on the street every day, hell no!
But it would be pretty cool to have as a second car.
I already have a toy (88 lx), so I'll probably be keeping the eaton on mine.

It all depends on what you want. If you want to go picking on some built single turbo Supras on the highway, you better be packing a little bit more than a kb/whipple to hang. If you like to do a little stoplight racing keep the pd blower.

 

[longrodLX]

no i dont think that your using 5krpm between shifts other than first gear. i also think that the PD would make more power throughout the rpms than a centri other than at redline. PD blowers are coming on strong and people are learning a lot better how to set up the car with the PD blower. i do agree that it wouldnt be the best freeway blower. but on the street you cant beat them. you will see a lot more PD cars running better times this year. one i can think of off the top of my head should be running 8s