Rough idle -getting worse over time

XP900

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I have a 2010 GT500 with the VMP Gen2R kit, dual pump boosters, 69mm VMP twin jet, JLT 123mm, VMP triple HE, and a few other things. The Injectors are the Deatschwerks 95b/hr (1000cc). Dyno was about 635 hp / 635 torque when last done - tuned for 93 and only use 93. I was going to have this re-tuned but can't until I solve some issues I have with this -idling being the first one.

The idle is getting worse to the point I almost think it may stall at lights at times. When I stop it idles down okay to about 800 or so and seems smooth but it starts missing and I can feel it in the body..with the idle jumping around sometimes hitting down to 600. I can hear it mssing too at the back of the car at the pipes. It also tends to be very jerky at times between 1000-2000, intermittent but also seems to be getting worse with each long drive. I have changed plug coils even though they only showed a few misfires per coil. I also tried now plugs gapped at .30-.031and it made no difference withthe idling issue. (BR7EF tried and new TR7IX put back in - no improvement).

I checked all fittings and removed and cleaned the air flow sensor and throttle body with no improvement. I did a smoke test on the top with everything attached and plugged the end of the CAI at the cleaner end. I put a few lbs of pressure on it and found no leaks anywhere...removed the fill cap and verified there was a lot of smoke getting into the top. At idle my mechanical vac gauge reads steady between 20-21.

No engine checks, no codes when I used a scanner. I have a somewhat cheap $200 CRp129 scanner but it does seem to be able to pull and graph a lot of data but didn't see any thing flagged when I viewed info without it running. Need to redo with engine idling but not sure what parms to look at - injector values?

I'm thinking that maybe the injectors are failing or clogged since I have probably 25K on them - I use Techron once in a while. Will change the fuel filter too since it't been a few years.

Should I pull the injectors and have them cleaned by a service or do it myself ? Any reason to keep track of which cylinder they come from?

Lastly - do I need to pull the Gen2R to get at the drivers side fuel rail bolts to pull the injectors? Been a while since I had the SC off.

Thanks
 

HKusp

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I would look at injector duty cycle and fuel pressure commanded versus actual. Injectors should not be dirty enough to cause this issue after only 25k miles. I can't remember if you need to pull the SC to get to the drivers side injectors or not. I too had the Gen2R, and it seems vaguely familiar that you do have to. It sounds to me like the fuel pump itself may be going out, or the pick-up sock is dirty. You are way low on HP with set-up too. I had over 650rwhp with a Kenne Bell dual BAP that was on it's way out and half the injector you do. 635 is telling me either your tuner was VERY conservative or one of your components wasn't up to the task.
 

Vinnie_B

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Check and verify for proper operation:

1. Fuel delivery System
2. O2 sensors
3. Charging system


If you know of anyone with ford IDS you could resolve this in less than 2-3 Hours.
 

XP900

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635/640 is what it did after the tune 3 years ago and that was about what was expected for the setup on 93 with stock cats and exhaust. Power at upper rpms still seems to be there and boost is still high...it's only the lower rpm where I have the real issue. Even though the package injectors were 95 I'm sure the Ford 52 lbs would have sufficed for this.
 

HKusp

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I had 52's and long tube headers with no cats. You have plenty of injector and supercharger, even with the stock cats to go above that 630 number. I aggree with Vinnie, you need a better scanner to data log what's going on.
 

Vinnie_B

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If you can swing it I recommend the MaxiSYS MS906 by Autel. Excellent tool for diagnosing PIA issues. I use it all the time to save customers money as an alternative from OEM scanners and software that I also use and have to diagnose electrical issues.




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XP900

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If you can swing it I recommend the MaxiSYS MS906 by Autel. Excellent tool for diagnosing PIA issues. I use it all the time to save customers money as an alternative from OEM scanners and software that I also use and have to diagnose electrical issues.




View attachment 1798648View attachment 1798647
Thanks Vinnie...$$ for the tool is not an issue I just didn't want to buy one and make a bad choice. I've been looking over some tools and trying to decide how much to spend and which one to get...Scotty (Youtube) did a review on several models of tools over varying price ranges. I'll check out the one you suggested above. Once the rain stops here I'll see what capabilty my older CRP129 can perform while the engine is actually running.
 

Vinnie_B

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Thanks Vinnie...$$ for the tool is not an issue I just didn't want to buy one and make a bad choice. I've been looking over some tools and trying to decide how much to spend and which one to get...Scotty (Youtube) did a review on several models of tools over varying price ranges. I'll check out the one you suggested above. Once the rain stops here I'll see what capabilty my older CRP129 can perform while the engine is actually running.
No problem! There are a few different models of the Autel MS906 such as PRO/BT/TS and other upgraded models can be found in the link below. Just be sure to get the one that will best suit your needs. Check out some YouTube videos as well. I have the MaxiSYS MS906...love it. Its one of the only models with a OBD2 cable which I prefer, the others are wireless but ok for troubleshooting/Diagnostics but I personally wouldnt use for programming/flashing.


 

VNMOUS1

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Put the stock throttle body back on the car and see if the problems go away.

Return to stock first. Swap to stock. Reload the custom tune you are running.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
 

XP900

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Check and verify for proper operation:

1. Fuel delivery System
2. O2 sensors
3. Charging system


If you know of anyone with ford IDS you could resolve this in less than 2-3 Hours.
Vinnie...couple of questions....
How long should the fuel system stay pressurized once the car is turned off? After it sat about 5 hours I pulled the fuel sensor out of the fuel rail and there was no fuel squirting out. When it went bad a I replaced it a few months ago I had fuel squirt out when it was removed....although I don't recall how long the engine sat off. Stock pumps with Lethal dual BAP. When idling I was getting a fairly constant reading of about 43 lbs (+-1) on the rail.

My 2010 has the original alternator..63K. Battery is a few years old (Duracell) and it measured 12.9 volts and load tester showed 800cca.. When the car was idling the Luanch showed the alt putting out between 13.8 and jumping around hitting 12.9 too...never saw a 14+ but if the battery is fully charged I'm not sure if that wouldn't be normal for the regulator. O2 sensors in front both moved around within the same range of values...back ones also both jumping around but within a much lower fange value. Trying to find specs on what they should be reading. Ordered tools...waiting on them.
 

XP900

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Put the stock throttle body back on the car and see if the problems go away.

Return to stock first. Swap to stock. Reload the custom tune you are running.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

I had the VMP 69 on the car and a spare VMP 67 and stock one still. Installed the stock and the idling seems better (still hear it missing in exhaust though) but I am still getting the jerking issue occassionally when I give it gas. Ordered a better reader to see whats happening as I drive it.
 

Vinnie_B

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Vinnie...couple of questions....
How long should the fuel system stay pressurized once the car is turned off? After it sat about 5 hours I pulled the fuel sensor out of the fuel rail and there was no fuel squirting out. When it went bad a I replaced it a few months ago I had fuel squirt out when it was removed....although I don't recall how long the engine sat off. Stock pumps with Lethal dual BAP. When idling I was getting a fairly constant reading of about 43 lbs (+-1) on the rail.

My 2010 has the original alternator..63K. Battery is a few years old (Duracell) and it measured 12.9 volts and load tester showed 800cca.. When the car was idling the Luanch showed the alt putting out between 13.8 and jumping around hitting 12.9 too...never saw a 14+ but if the battery is fully charged I'm not sure if that wouldn't be normal for the regulator. O2 sensors in front both moved around within the same range of values...back ones also both jumping around but within a much lower fange value. Trying to find specs on what they should be reading. Ordered tools...waiting on them.
Im not sure how long your fuel rail will stay presurized once you Key/off for a couple hours. Normal Hot/Idle is around 41 PSI. Normal B+ is 13 V to 14.5 V Hot Idle and 12.8 KOEO. O2's sound like there working correctly as well. Sounds like all is good Fuel/Voltage/O2's
 

XP900

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I'm keeping my fingers crossed but after 3-4 weeks of the car on ramps I finally finished my work and started her up. I had pulled the injectors and had them serviced (2 weeks) and they produced spec sheets. They rebalanced half of them - variance was around 10% now at 3% across all 8. I checked the SC while off, cleaned it and changed the oil - 3.4 oz according to new VMP recommendations. Smoked tested engine again to make sure there were no air leaks. Cleaned all engine connections and used dielectric grease on fittings. Recleaned MAF, put TB (69 VMP) back on and changed fuel filter. Installed new Mechman alt and checked and rewired all the grounds after installing 1/0 gauge wiring. See other post for alt info. Started up and engine is running very smooth and steady. Drove it for 20 minutes and seems to be running very well - no full boost test yet. I let it idle 4 times today (90s) for 10 minutes at a time and it idles steady with no idle variations (except the slight drop when A/C kicks on). Exhaust sounds nice and steady now with no missing and rpm changes like before. I did not reload the tune yet (may still do that) but my gut tells me to leave it alone for now and see what happens.
 

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