Rumor: 7.0L N/A V8 in new GT500

[Sonic605hp]

So then what's the motor setup going to be?

i have a family member that works for a vendor ford used(es) on the GT350/500.

this is 100% false. the new GT500 is boosted.

 

[Recon]

I'd say a supercharged 5.2 CPC. Maybe with the new 2.650L?


Sent from somewhere in the Twilight Zone.

 

[Fourcam380]

http://www.motortrend.com/news/spied-possible-shelby-gt500-mustang-shows-off-supercharged-v-8/

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

I think they can pull off a fpc to be honest. People say it's too brittle but I call shenanigans. The damn things have made 1080whp already with turbo systems and 17psi.

So do many Ferrari and exotic builds. Cpc and fpc have no dramatic difference to strength when properly balanced.

An imbalanced cpc, even fractionally, will last no where near as long as a well balanced fpc. If anything, the fpc is a better design for boost as it scavenges smoother and exhausts completely. Cpc is inherently worse for boost.

Part of the reason it's easier to get 2-4hp/L with a turbo Honda 4 cyl vs with a 5-7L v8 is cpc vs fpc, overall stroke throw, and so on.

It might be wiser to drop a little stroke and go down to 5.0L to be honest, but regardless, since Ford has already found how to balance an fpc, supercharging that mill makes more sense vs putting a cpc in it.

The reason ford is selling a cpc 5.2 Aluminator making 580hp is to satisfy the wants and needs of hotrodders. Try convincing someone that a fpc or cpc can live just fine with boost, they'll tell you every old wives tale of why only a cpc can.

Like I said though, hellions already made 1080whp with 17psi (at peak, 19psi around 4000rpm but the tapered down to give it a massive midrange of 4500-7000+ making 1000whp). Additionally, Henessey has a whipple supercharged setup on 7psi making over 700whp while keeping the fpc, and even dropping compression 1 full point! That graph looks nothing like the turbo cars, but it's also be no where near as stressful on the internals.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Here's the graph of te henessey build. And before everybody starts, it has a 2year 24,000 mile warrenty so slam away about their reputation, at least they've caught on and are trying to do the right thing now. They also offer this 1200whp turbo package. Not saying any of these combos would or wouldn't pass fords in house durability testing, but honestly a 650-700whp supercharged setup with 9-10psi would live a long healthy life with fords tuning, cooling setups, and overall engineering at play.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

1200bhp* not whp. Probably makes 1050whp.

 

[Fourcam380]

Agreed no issue with FPC as long as it's strong and it appears it is. Though I'd take the smaller coyote bore paired with boost vs a shorter stroke. Shrouding the valves a bit won't hurt with boost and the extra meat between bites helps with sealing at higher boost levels. That said it makes financial sense for Ford to slap a TVS on the existing VooDoo longblock.

 

[Fourcam380]

Between bores

 

[Fordfourlife]

Not saying any of these combos would or wouldn't pass fords in house durability testing, but honestly a 650-700whp supercharged setup with 9-10psi would live a long healthy life with fords tuning, cooling setups, and overall engineering at play.

The 13/14 GT500 was putting out 14psi factory.


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[Fourcam380]

The 13/14 GT500 was putting out 14psi factory.


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Boost is only relevant to the engine it's measured on. 14psi with stock exhaust manifolds vs with LTs means a greater mass of air moving through the motor at the same boost level. Gt350 longblock is more efficient than the old 5.4 and the larger blower also means less peak boost and more HP for newer gt500.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Exactly, and let's not forget that 14psi through a 1.9L blower vs through a 2.3 or 2.7L blower is entirely different volumes of air flow.

An easier way to say this is 14psi through a straw is much less volume of air than 14psi through a 2" pipe.

More oxygen counts means more power potential. Mix it, ignite it, compress it, and exhaust it. The smoother all of that happens, the more power you can derive from the given oxygen available to play with.

Now, all of that in mind, if ford supercharged the new gt500 to 14psi, with all the spiffy tech the gt350 fpc mill has to offer, it would easily be able to rev to 8000rpm, and make well over 800hp. Easy. Reliably. Broad torque with a 2.3L blower. Tons of powerband. 500wtq at 2000rpm. Just an all around mega mill.

Only way it could be sweeter from a production standpoint would be if it was fed by twin 58:60's... Sigh I still would love a factory tt ford v8 4v...

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

@Fordfourlife

Agree 100% that they can pull off the longevity of a 10psi fpc 5.2 with a blower since the 5.8 ran 14psi and 7000rpm without issue.

The na mill of a trinity probably makes 350hp as it rolls off the assembly line. 14psi takes it to 685hp (662).

Considering the fpc 5.2 voodoo mill makes 526hp to start, just 10psi would be enough for 880hp. It would only take 7psi to make 776 crank hp.

Now, here's the kicker. Hellion made 1080whp with a 5.2 voodoo on 17psi (peak). Thing is, the traditional 100% gain of hp per 14.7psi dictates it should have only made 1020whp. This means the mill is over 100% VE, and accordingly exceeds the traditional calculation. What's my point in bringing this up? The voodoo mill loves boost. It's so efficient na that adding boost optimizes much of its head flow.

Consider this graph from Hennessy, it made over 725whp with 1 full point lower compression will running 7.5-8psi. And realistically, the 8psi was in the midrange, and 7.5psi was at redline/peak. Using the traditional formula, the 473whp baseline should lose 1/12.5 (which is 8%) of its power for the compression loss. That would be 438whp. Let's say 440whp. The mill with 8psi would be ((8/14.7)+1) which is 1.554 times as much power. That would be 679whp.

The traditional formula dictates 679whp. Hennessy made 733whp if I recall correct. And with 7.5psi to be honest, not the 8 I stated. That's a difference of 54whp in favor of how efficient the voodoo mill is.

If I had to guesstimate what the VE is of this mill, I'd ball park it at 117-118%. That's a badass foundation for boost.

For comparison, the coyote and boss mills were around 108-112%.

Geek out.

 

[Fourcam380]

Something else to take into account. What are the supporting mods for the helion (turbo obv isn't comparable to blower in a boost comparison) and Hennessy cars?

Guessing the Hennessy blower car had CAI, LTs with HF cats, etc which all allow more more air to pass through and drop boost/backpressure vs with oem components.

 

[Fourcam380]

Anyone know the mods on the 475/400w baseline GT350 from Hennessy? Thx!

 

[Fourcam380]

As much as I'd love to see an 8000rpm+ blown factory V8 I don't see the point of spinning that high with a factory TVS PD blower in terms of both durability and performance. It won't be hard to make peak at or below even 7000-7500rpm, probably significantly less rpm than that really, and still hit hp and tq goals.

 

[stangfreak]

I also heard the 7L myth today at a shop. Its too good to be true. Ford would never put a big motor like that in a mustang. ( god forbid )

If by any chance a 7L twin turbo mustang will be built, I am selling my cobra that day.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Ya the 7.0 probably isn't happening for the gt500.

I really want ford to come out with something special for this car. It would be the 50th of the gt500kr. I'd have to look up some history on the nitty gritty of that car to get some fresh ideas of what they could do.

Memory leads me correct though, it was around 69-70 that Carrol got fed up with the vanity of the models, and ever stronger turn from track car to nifty/premium model with big engine that led to the cars being cancelled all together in 70 or 71 iirc.

 

[BlksvtCobra01]

I'd like to see Ford set the bar. T.T. V8 time to be different this time with a Auto option. Anyone think they will offer a SRA option?


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[AustinSN]

I'd like to see Ford set the bar. T.T. V8 time to be different this time with a Auto option. Anyone think they will offer a SRA option?


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Lol.

No.