SCJ Monoblade P2112 Code.... discussion

talonderiel

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So, I've had the Super Cobra Jet Monoblade on my car for over a week now. Lund Racing has done an amazing job with the tune. Car pulls like a beast... when it there is no issue with the TB. Once she becomes warm and has been driving for a good bit, there's a funny point during prolonged engine breaking or partial throttle while in traffic. It's definitely does it if switching from Interstate driving to traffic/slow interstate or to traffic light driving. Throttle seems to bog, and if not quick enough disengaging clutch and blipping the throttle, the car will go into Limp Mode and return the famous P2112 code.

I am beyond impressed with the customer service and speediness of Lund Racing, this is more of a discussion of the TB as a whole and what Accufab discussed with me on the phone for almost an hour today. I was put on the phone with, I believe to be, Accufab's main guy who explains why the SCJ Monoblade is not meant for Coyotes and that he has been working with Tuners/Shops to stop recommending it to individuals for setups. He explained that the SCJ Mono is meant for the GT500's less efficient engine and flows too much air, even when closed. He says this is what causes the rise in idle rpms and then as the computer is trying to tell the TB to close (which physically it is) it induces the P2112 code. He went on to explain that "some" tuners are able to electronically tune this out, but that even for them it's a 50/50 shot and that he could take the TB back and try to re-calibrate it for the Coyote but that he has done this is way too much for his own liking and that it's still only a 50/50.

Has anyone ran into this discussion before? I have only ever seen that it was a tuner issue or such. I'm prolly switching to the 65mm TB, or whatever Lund Racing recommends for their tuning preference, since mine is a daily driver and I need a little more reliability.


But, man, does she pull when ya get into it! And she drives like stock until the code gets thrown. Cycle the engine and it works great. Kinda like having a pet snake, or riding a motorcycle, you just know it's going to bite you eventually.
 

KushBandit

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You could try sending it to them. I had the same code, sent it to Accufab and since I got it back, its worked great. Lund can definitely tune for the monoblade with no issue, fwiw.
 

talonderiel

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You could try sending it to them. I had the same code, sent it to Accufab and since I got it back, its worked great. Lund can definitely tune for the monoblade with no issue, fwiw.

How long was the turn around for them to do that? I have maybe a week of alternative vechicles, as I will be house sitting shortly.
 

KushBandit

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How long was the turn around for them to do that? I have maybe a week of alternative vechicles, as I will be house sitting shortly.

It took about 4 days, however I live close to 30 miles from their headquarters, so shipping time wasn't long at all.
 

Shaun@AED

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We've been seeing the same issues for years with the MonoBlades.
I spoke with Mihovetz about it and he says it's due to the tight clearances of the blade vs housing, but we've found these TB's do not stick at idle, they stick on decel, typically 12-20 degrees from full closed. Therefore it's not a tolerance issue with the blade vs housing.

What we've found is that it's actually a quite complicated problem. Any little hickup in the gears will cause the throttle to close slower than the ECU is looking for thereby increasing the voltage necessary for the throttle motor to close the blade, which crests a preset threshold and triggers limp mode. A stiffer return spring would solve this but.... the spring tension in the TB cannot be increased as it will trigger an error on the opening of the blade.
Due to the blade being so large across the X-axis and the fact these engines pull a significant amount of vacuum on decel (26+ inches) the force on the blade is significant at 13+psi (lbs per square inch), especially when you figure this TB has an area of over 13 square inches (that is 169lbs of force trying to bend the throttle blade). Therefore the shaft and blade need to be much thicker/stronger than a twin bore. The drawback is this adds weight and inertia to the blade, and since we cannot put in a stiffer return spring any little hickup in the gears on decel triggers the P2112 as we have a very low margin of voltage error to run the TB properly.
The GT500's don't have as tight of a threshold for the voltage draw of the TB motor, so they don't suffer from this as often as the Coyotes.

The solution is to either increase the spring rate (can't do it as it will trigger limp mode on throttle opening) or decrease the weight/inertia of the blade/shaft and according to Accufab they cannot do this. Therefore, there is no solution aside from running a twin bore on the Coyote applications or run the risk of getting these codes with the MonoBlade. It's roughly a 20% rate we see of the MonoBlades going into limp mode on decel.

We recommend the FRPP Twin65 and the VMP Twin67.
 

zinc03svt

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Wow. I have been running mine now for over a year (3 different tuners) and zero codes nor limp mode. Is this something that certain Mono's do only out of the gate or do they all eventually start having these same problems??
 
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talonderiel

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We've been seeing the same issues for years with the MonoBlades.
I spoke with Mihovetz about it and he says it's due to the tight clearances of the blade vs housing, but we've found these TB's do not stick at idle, they stick on decel, typically 12-20 degrees from full closed. Therefore it's not a tolerance issue with the blade vs housing.

What we've found is that it's actually a quite complicated problem. Any little hickup in the gears will cause the throttle to close slower than the ECU is looking for thereby increasing the voltage necessary for the throttle motor to close the blade, which crests a preset threshold and triggers limp mode. A stiffer return spring would solve this but.... the spring tension in the TB cannot be increased as it will trigger an error on the opening of the blade.
Due to the blade being so large across the X-axis and the fact these engines pull a significant amount of vacuum on decel (26+ inches) the force on the blade is significant at 13+psi (lbs per square inch), especially when you figure this TB has an area of over 13 square inches (that is 169lbs of force trying to bend the throttle blade). Therefore the shaft and blade need to be much thicker/stronger than a twin bore. The drawback is this adds weight and inertia to the blade, and since we cannot put in a stiffer return spring any little hickup in the gears on decel triggers the P2112 as we have a very low margin of voltage error to run the TB properly.
The GT500's don't have as tight of a threshold for the voltage draw of the TB motor, so they don't suffer from this as often as the Coyotes.

The solution is to either increase the spring rate (can't do it as it will trigger limp mode on throttle opening) or decrease the weight/inertia of the blade/shaft and according to Accufab they cannot do this. Therefore, there is no solution aside from running a twin bore on the Coyote applications or run the risk of getting these codes with the MonoBlade. It's roughly a 20% rate we see of the MonoBlades going into limp mode on decel.

We recommend the FRPP Twin65 and the VMP Twin67.

Shaun, thank you! You always give us the great technical explanations that make sense. From the forum posts I read, I thought it was just an individual issue or one that was resolved by manufacturing issues. Hopefully more kats get to see this before diving in only half educated.

I should have spoken with a tuner before buying my setup. Lesson learned there. Lol .... If only I had the money to make her a drag only car, this would be a killer setup!
 

VNMOUS1

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How does the CFM twin 67mm throttle body compare?

It's the same as our VMP Twin Jet 67mm. When using our calibration, we can swap the Cobra Jet Twin with our Twin Jet 67mm and pick up 10rwhp. 20rwhp over the stock 60mm on a GEN II Kit or Ford/Roush blower kit.

$629 retail minus svtperformance.com discount.
 

Becools

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We had an issue with our supercharged 15, tvs/mono. Had a dead spot almost around 1800-2800 or so. Had an issue with lund giving us a manual tune that put the 15 into almost a limp mode nothing above like 1500-2k rpm. After that John Lund took over the tune, and he fixed the issue with the dead spot. Never had another issue, but swapped the mono for stock to put the mono on a cobra jet intake, go figure. Havent had that one running yet though.
 

talonderiel

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We had an issue with our supercharged 15, tvs/mono. Had a dead spot almost around 1800-2800 or so. Had an issue with lund giving us a manual tune that put the 15 into almost a limp mode nothing above like 1500-2k rpm. After that John Lund took over the tune, and he fixed the issue with the dead spot. Never had another issue, but swapped the mono for stock to put the mono on a cobra jet intake, go figure. Havent had that one running yet though.

Becools, that is about where mine happens too. The Lund Racing Tuning Specialist I'm working with was able to tune out the dead spot, but not the P2112 Code on Decel (as Shaun@AED posted about). It's a killer setup and I love the feel of it... Just sad that it's such an intermittent issue. I've done the same drive now (mix of highway, interstate and stand still traffic) 3 - 4 times and it's happened half of those drives. It's always in the worst times too lol (transition from interstate to highway or heavy traffic on the interstate and trying to defensively move around idiots).

I will prolly be switching to the 65mm, as she is my DD and I need that reliability in said situations, but I was curious why Shops/Suppliers are still pushing it and suggesting this TB. I was hoping a few more would see this post, and especially Shaun's awesome response, before pulling the trigger on the purchase.
 

talonderiel

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Wow. I have been running mine now for over a year (3 different tuners) and zero codes nor limp mode. Is this something that certain Mono's do only out of the gate or do they all eventually start having these same problems??

Zinc03svt, from what I can glean from Shaun's post, I think you'll be fine. You're one of the lucky ones! ... Or maybe I'm one of the unlucky 20% ? lol
 

zinc03svt

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Zinc03svt, from what I can glean from Shaun's post, I think you'll be fine. You're one of the lucky ones! ... Or maybe I'm one of the unlucky 20% ? lol

Why don't you try exchanging it in for new one (Mono) first before trying different one? Might be worth a shot.

Yeah, I hope it keeps running right. Lol. I wonder if there is a required service or maintenance on them after so long or miles?
 

talonderiel

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Why don't you try exchanging it in for new one (Mono) first before trying different one? Might be worth a shot.

Yeah, I hope it keeps running right. Lol. I wonder if there is a required service or maintenance on them after so long or miles?

If I had more down time for her, I totally would... but at I need to drive to Chicago in 3 weeks for my new duty station. I can't afford to have her down till after I get up there, and then I'll be limited tools and shops. The military life keeps me from having a killer garage for now. :\
 

talonderiel

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We've been seeing the same issues for years with the MonoBlades.
I spoke with Mihovetz about it and he says it's due to the tight clearances of the blade vs housing, but we've found these TB's do not stick at idle, they stick on decel, typically 12-20 degrees from full closed. Therefore it's not a tolerance issue with the blade vs housing.

What we've found is that it's actually a quite complicated problem. Any little hickup in the gears will cause the throttle to close slower than the ECU is looking for thereby increasing the voltage necessary for the throttle motor to close the blade, which crests a preset threshold and triggers limp mode. A stiffer return spring would solve this but.... the spring tension in the TB cannot be increased as it will trigger an error on the opening of the blade.
Due to the blade being so large across the X-axis and the fact these engines pull a significant amount of vacuum on decel (26+ inches) the force on the blade is significant at 13+psi (lbs per square inch), especially when you figure this TB has an area of over 13 square inches (that is 169lbs of force trying to bend the throttle blade). Therefore the shaft and blade need to be much thicker/stronger than a twin bore. The drawback is this adds weight and inertia to the blade, and since we cannot put in a stiffer return spring any little hickup in the gears on decel triggers the P2112 as we have a very low margin of voltage error to run the TB properly.
The GT500's don't have as tight of a threshold for the voltage draw of the TB motor, so they don't suffer from this as often as the Coyotes.

The solution is to either increase the spring rate (can't do it as it will trigger limp mode on throttle opening) or decrease the weight/inertia of the blade/shaft and according to Accufab they cannot do this. Therefore, there is no solution aside from running a twin bore on the Coyote applications or run the risk of getting these codes with the MonoBlade. It's roughly a 20% rate we see of the MonoBlades going into limp mode on decel.

We recommend the FRPP Twin65 and the VMP Twin67.

Shaun@AED, have you seen any changes with a "break-in period" or relearn timeframe? Just got the 65mm in today and waiting on a shifter before I do all the install work, but the SCJ Mono seems to be doing fine again in the 15 - 30 mile drives to work and back. I need to do some interstate driving or heavy traffic to really qualify the statement. But I haven't been able to induce the P2112 code in over a week. It could be that I'm driving conservatively again instead of raping her. :burnout:
 

Shaun@AED

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Shaun@AED, have you seen any changes with a "break-in period" or relearn timeframe? Just got the 65mm in today and waiting on a shifter before I do all the install work, but the SCJ Mono seems to be doing fine again in the 15 - 30 mile drives to work and back. I need to do some interstate driving or heavy traffic to really qualify the statement. But I haven't been able to induce the P2112 code in over a week. It could be that I'm driving conservatively again instead of raping her. :burnout:

Yes, sometimes we can 'break in' the TB's and they never have a problem again.
 

DaBigBone

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It's the same as our VMP Twin Jet 67mm. When using our calibration, we can swap the Cobra Jet Twin with our Twin Jet 67mm and pick up 10rwhp. 20rwhp over the stock 60mm on a GEN II Kit or Ford/Roush blower kit.

$629 retail minus svtperformance.com discount.

Really? Was looking at one of the packages that CFM offers with their TB but was hesitant about it. Didn't know its the exact same one as yours.
 

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