simple nitrous question

[turbosha]

so i have my bonus coming up and its not going to be huge...
i want this kit:
Nitrous Outlet 11+ Mustang GT Plate System - Ford Systems - EFI Wet Nitrous Systems
this should hold me off for another year to save for boost.

the question is.
can i run a 100 shot with no tune?
i have a performance 93 octane lund tune in right now.
just dont want to pay the extra$$$ for a nitrous tune that i may ony use a hand full of times.

 

[five0three]

(keep in mind i am simply regurgitating what ive read, im shopping as well) From what ive read, wet kits without proper tuning stand the chance of pooling in the intake manifold. I've heard very good reviews from the JMS dry kit...

 

[turbosha]

(keep in mind i am simply regurgitating what ive read, im shopping as well) From what ive read, wet kits without proper tuning stand the chance of pooling in the intake manifold. I've heard very good reviews from the JMS dry kit...

me to .. but dang a $1000 nitrous setup.
they say the n.xpress new plate does a good job preventing pooling.

 

[5PNTSLO]

No and H E L L no.
You need a tune with nitrous point blank
And dry nitrous is just stupid, you're relying on the o2 to tell the car "oh shit I'm lean must dump more fuel" in the time it will take for that to happen you could crack a ring or worse

 

[turbosha]

this is what N.O.S says...
QUESTION Can I simply bolt a nitrous kit onto my stock engine?

ANSWER Yes. NOS manufactures systems for virtually any stock engine application. The key is to choose the correct kit for a given application; i.e., 4 cyl. engines normally allow an extra 40- 60 HP, 6 cyl. engines usually work great between 75-100 extra HP, small block V8’s (302/350/400cid) can typically accept up to 140 extra HP, and big block V8’s (427-454) might accept from 125-200 extra HP. These suggested ranges provide maximum reliability from most stock engines using cast pistons and cast crank with few or no engine modifications. There's additional information on our Holley TV that shows the different types of systems that are available. Click Here To View.

 

[CharlieR]

No and H E L L no.
You need a tune with nitrous point blank
And dry nitrous is just stupid, you're relying on the o2 to tell the car "oh shit I'm lean must dump more fuel" in the time it will take for that to happen you could crack a ring or worse

I don't believe you know what you're talking about with "dry" kits. It is not just relying in the O2's. Although I agree 100% no n2o without a tune.

 

[4VFTW]

if your worried about pooling throw a Boss IM on it.

 

[Need4Speed03]

The answer is you need an tune (wet or dry) to safely spray any shot. I do not recommend spraying without a specific nitrous tune from an experienced tuner.

Pooling has nothing to do with the tune. It also hasnt been an issue with our cars so I wouldnt worry about it.

The dry kits need a specific dry tune that commands a certain A/F at WOT. It does not rely on the 02 sensors for extra fuel, the extra fuel comes from the tuner commanding fuel.

 

[turbosha]

id like a tuner to chime in:
the usual rule is 1-2 degree of timing to be pulled out for every 50hp.
but will 110 octane fuel do basically the same thing? keep detonation down.
AED, Shaun, you out there.

 

[CharlieR]

this is what N.O.S says...
QUESTION Can I simply bolt a nitrous kit onto my stock engine?

ANSWER Yes. NOS manufactures systems for virtually any stock engine application. The key is to choose the correct kit for a given application; i.e., 4 cyl. engines normally allow an extra 40- 60 HP, 6 cyl. engines usually work great between 75-100 extra HP, small block V8’s (302/350/400cid) can typically accept up to 140 extra HP, and big block V8’s (427-454) might accept from 125-200 extra HP. These suggested ranges provide maximum reliability from most stock engines using cast pistons and cast crank with few or no engine modifications. There's additional information on our Holley TV that shows the different types of systems that are available. Click Here To View.

Nope. Not on '11 up. If you run a wet kit the computer with take fuel from the injectors to compensate for the fuel added by "the kit". "The kit" may be set up to use "stock" tune and with the extra fuel be 11.0:1 A/F and before '11 that worked. But the new computer will decrease fuel from the injectors to stay at 12.5:1(or whatever your n/a tune is).

 

[2012csgt]

id like a tuner to chime in:
the usual rule is 1-2 degree of timing to be pulled out for every 50hp.
but will 110 octane fuel do basically the same thing? keep detonation down.
AED, Shaun, you out there.

Come on turbosha.. Need4speed03 has a nitrous setup. It's running 10.40s and he said you need a Nitrous tune. Common sense should tell you that a nitrous tune is needed. But hey, be the guinnie pig.. Bolt that on with no nitrous tune and give us your impressions. It will definitely help out the next person looking for a Nitrous setup. :bash:

 

[2012csgt]

Nope. Not on '11 up. If you run a wet kit the computer with take fuel from the injectors to compensate for the fuel added by "the kit". "The kit" may be set up to use "stock" tune and with the extra fuel be 11.0:1 A/F and before '11 that worked. But the new computer will decrease fuel from the injectors to stay at 12.5:1(or whatever your n/a tune is).

And when you timing is too high, the engine will detect knock and just retard it for you..... Perfect.

 

[Need4Speed03]

id like a tuner to chime in:
the usual rule is 1-2 degree of timing to be pulled out for every 50hp.
but will 110 octane fuel do basically the same thing? keep detonation down.
AED, Shaun, you out there.

I'm just giving you good advice, I've sprayed alot of cars...and the standard 2 degrees for every 50hp doesnt apply here (IMO). For example my nitrous tune has a total of 17 degrees of timing. These computers are so different and have the ability to add timing, alot of timing, based on certain conditions. All those abilities have been disabled in my nitrous tune so my car will never see more then 17 degrees. Theres alot more that goes into a nitrous tune besides the reduction in timing (like a richer commanded A/F, tweeks to minimize any lean spikes, etc)

Why dont you just call a few tuners tomorrow and ask them on the phone?

 

[5PNTSLO]

The answer is you need an tune (wet or dry) to safely spray any shot. I do not recommend spraying without a specific nitrous tune from an experienced tuner.

Pooling has nothing to do with the tune. It also hasnt been an issue with our cars so I wouldnt worry about it.

The dry kits need a specific dry tune that commands a certain A/F at WOT. It does not rely on the 02 sensors for extra fuel, the extra fuel comes from the tuner commanding fuel.

He asked with no tune so that's why i said the o2 will control the fuel. It can be tuned for a dry shot but it would need larger injectors.
Best bet is to use a wet setup and be done with it

 

[turbosha]

Why dont you just call a few tuners tomorrow and ask them on the phone?

i will. but im asking now. to see what people say.
i had a 125 plate on my carbed 302 in my 89 fox. i just pulled the dist. alittle when i sprayed.LOL.
there prolly is alot going on with the new stuff.

 

[CharlieR]

And when you timing is too high, the engine will detect knock and just retard it for you..... Perfect.

Sarcasm, I like it. So he should run a wet kit leaner than designed and hope the knock sensors kill timing from stock, hell he should also run some nice leaded C-10 fuel to make sure. Or maybe try the search function as this has been asked 5 times before. :shrug:

 

[Need4Speed03]

i will. but im asking now. to see what people say.
i had a 125 plate on my carbed 302 in my 89 fox. i just pulled the dist. alittle when i sprayed.LOL.
there prolly is alot going on with the new stuff.

Yeah, these cars are quite a bit different! I would only take advice from people who have experience and talk to a few tuners personally...BBR & JMS are probably two of the most experienced with nitrous for these cars. Anyway, just trying to help you man!

 

[turbosha]

why is nitrous a touchy subject around here?
i can never get a straight answer. thats why its been asked so many times.
i guess if i start a paxton or tt build thread everyone would be civil.

 

[CharlieR]

why is nitrous a touchy subject around here?
i can never get a straight answer. thats why its been asked so many times.
i guess if i start a paxton or tt build thread everyone would be civil.

I'm sorry. Not a touchy subject. Not really, I've stated on each N2O thread that "Wet, Dry, before maf, after maf, even a direct port fogger if you spray these cars "YOU MUST BE TUNED" if you want to keep driving it. I also don't like spraying at low rpm but some feel it revs so fast it can't do any damage.

 

[turbosha]

i understand.
i dont think i want to use the tps switch on these cars because of the drive by wire. sometimes when its floored the tb closes because of what ever reason torque control/traction control.
would a manual button be better? thought about a window switch to. but im not trying to spend 1200 on nitrous.
i can see 650 for the kit and 200 for a tune.