eebj01
How about those MPHs from your THP kit?
How about those MPHs from your THP kit?
single vs. twins
- Thread starter TurboV3nomVa
- Start date
turbo
My mph numbers are for me to know. It wouldn't help you out anyway since I have drag suspension, an automatic with transbrake, and a solid rear axle. That would be comparing apples to oranges for most out there.
My mph numbers are for me to know. It wouldn't help you out anyway since I have drag suspension, an automatic with transbrake, and a solid rear axle. That would be comparing apples to oranges for most out there.
Oh... for you to know. :lol: You come on here and rag the shit out of someone and then when asked about your own MPH numbers from your THP system and you post the reply above. Very lame!! :loser:
Not to mention you were very quick to state what your Whipple MPH was. :rollseyes
Not to mention you were very quick to state what your Whipple MPH was. :rollseyes
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TRBO VNM said:
They won't make more power than what the turbo can support with a big downpipe, but they will make more than what they make now. That's probably what I should have said instead of that long ass post. LOL Sorry guys.
I want to thank EEBJ01. He is the reason I finally registered on this site. I've been coming to this site as well as Modularfords for quite some time now. It was all the questions that TrboVenom answered and all the insight that he's given that made my decision to go with a turbo an easy one. I chose Hellion for a few reasons: 1)stainless steel construction [my Bullitt is my daily driver and Michigan winters play havoc on a car); 2)The kits ship quick; and 3)I took comfort knowing Hellion is owned by a big name in Mustang drag racing.
I'm sure there are plenty of other people on here and Modularfords that agree that TrboVenom has gone above and beyond for the Mustang community. And because of his contributions, the Mustang community has given back to him. After the wall incident the Mid-Atlantic Cobra guys came out in full force to help him out.
So here's to TrboVenom:beer:
I'm sure there are plenty of other people on here and Modularfords that agree that TrboVenom has gone above and beyond for the Mustang community. And because of his contributions, the Mustang community has given back to him. After the wall incident the Mid-Atlantic Cobra guys came out in full force to help him out.
So here's to TrboVenom:beer:
Bullitt357 said:
I really appreciate it. But really don't need the recognition. I would rather put out the info I know and based on the research I have done to help others with theirs and help them with their goals. myself, josh(smashedheadcat) and many others just do the same thing.
josh, that is correct. I need to go edit my post tomorrow to make sure it was clear. eebj01 misunderstood what I was saying about the downpipe as well. I thought it was clear, but what is clear to me or you may not be to others. I would however disagree about the 3" not being big enough to make the 800+ on the hellion. nobody has turned their cars up to peak it out other than Nate. we would see 25-27# on the dyno with the single 76 and these stock motors, but I haven't seen anyone go up that high. there is no need to really. the dyno's and how they are setup play a big role as well. but when I get my car figured out you better believe I am not leaving anything on the table. the turbo will be maxxed out on a mustang dyno and dynojet to provide info for others. I could care less, street tuning is fine with me, but everyone has to see numbers apparently.
TRBO VNM said:
All I can say is this guy has helped me through various stages of questions and answers, and in no way, shape or form pressured me to buy a Hellion kit. If you want twins, buy twins. However if you want a single, hellion is the way to go.
People comparing apples to oranges just don't understand. I have sat back for months and done research on each of these kits, and as far as quality goes Hellion is definitely number 1.
THP and HP kits both look awesome, and they all seem to have a good product, but people saying "Well Hellion doesn't make as much power". Well there is so much more to racing than how much peak power you make. They all make great power, it is all in the combination, the tune and the driver.
If you aren't smart enough to modify and test new things with any turbo kit out of the box, then you won't be competitive anyway. Since All motor mopar guys will still make you their bitch at the track all day long lol.
:xpl:eebj01 said:
I cant wait till you get a bad tank of gas.:kaboom:
Tampa03cobra said:
The thing of it is, it's not an apples to oranges comparison. They are all roughly the same money and they are both designed to increase power on your cobra.
Tampa03cobra said:
You are absolutely right, but since you are paying for something to ultimately increase the power output of your vehicle, one would think they'd get the product that makes the most power. Here's an example, steigmeier does a hell of a job porting eaton blowers. With 15psi you can make 500rwhp with their product. Lets say it costs $3500. (obviously I've inflated the cost for the sake of simplicity)
Now, lets say you buy a whipple, with 15psi you can make 580rwhp. And lets say the cost is $3500.
So there ya go, 2 similarly priced products designed to increase the power of your car. One obviously out performs the other powerwise. They both have strong torque curves and both make good power and they are both the same price. Is it possible for the ported eaton to outperform the whipple at the track?? Of course it's possible. If you set the car up to leave hard and have a really good driver, it'll definately put a hurtin' on the more powerful whipple cobra. Does that make the ported eaton better?? I don't think so, but if you do, that's fine. My logic favors the whipple in this case. If you set the car up to leave hard and put a good driver behind the wheel, it would go faster and quicker than the less powerful eaton car.
Geesh , Im out of town for 4 days and I come back to a hijacked thread. Lets all take a deep breath ppl. Both Jason and Ed know a thing or two about turbos, no doubt.
Jasons area of expertise is with singles, naturally Hellion. And Ed knows plenty about the THP kit. Both kits are awsome but to say Hellion is number 1 in quality is nonsense. I dont think anyone can make that assesment unless they own both setups on similar cars .
I do know that I see plenty of videos online of hellion cobras gettin their ass handed to them and very few big twin setups losing . I also know that the Hellion kit is wayyyyyyy over priced, fact of life. I cant see myself buying a new Hellion kit, its not enough bang for the buck, I'd save some cash and buy a Kenne Bell 2.8 for half the price before Id buy the hellion new for 7 grand with a so so k member kit and questionable turbonetics turbo.
You pay for convenience , simple as that. Its a cookie cutter kit, fits well, works perfect , however it lacks power. Im sure the 88mm kit makes alot more power but again at 8 grand only a fool would buy it. The THP kit gives you way wayyyyy more bang for the buck. Will it hold up as well as the Hellion ? I dunno cuz Im not an expert, thats why I started this thread, to get facts, not biased opinions. I wanna hear from the ppl that have had the Hellion on their car for a year or two and have beaten on it. And I wanna hear from the twin turbo guys who have had their kits for a while too.
So lets not get into a pissing contest. Jason its clear you get annoyed when ppl bash the Hellion, you are obviously biased since you're a Hellion dealer and thats natural. We all know you know a whole lot about cobras in general, no one would disagree. Lets hear from ppl who own these kits. I wanna know about the kinks and quirks, what you like and what you dont like about them. So the pissing contest ends here , lets keep it civil folks , thanks.
Jasons area of expertise is with singles, naturally Hellion. And Ed knows plenty about the THP kit. Both kits are awsome but to say Hellion is number 1 in quality is nonsense. I dont think anyone can make that assesment unless they own both setups on similar cars .
I do know that I see plenty of videos online of hellion cobras gettin their ass handed to them and very few big twin setups losing . I also know that the Hellion kit is wayyyyyyy over priced, fact of life. I cant see myself buying a new Hellion kit, its not enough bang for the buck, I'd save some cash and buy a Kenne Bell 2.8 for half the price before Id buy the hellion new for 7 grand with a so so k member kit and questionable turbonetics turbo.
You pay for convenience , simple as that. Its a cookie cutter kit, fits well, works perfect , however it lacks power. Im sure the 88mm kit makes alot more power but again at 8 grand only a fool would buy it. The THP kit gives you way wayyyyy more bang for the buck. Will it hold up as well as the Hellion ? I dunno cuz Im not an expert, thats why I started this thread, to get facts, not biased opinions. I wanna hear from the ppl that have had the Hellion on their car for a year or two and have beaten on it. And I wanna hear from the twin turbo guys who have had their kits for a while too.
So lets not get into a pissing contest. Jason its clear you get annoyed when ppl bash the Hellion, you are obviously biased since you're a Hellion dealer and thats natural. We all know you know a whole lot about cobras in general, no one would disagree. Lets hear from ppl who own these kits. I wanna know about the kinks and quirks, what you like and what you dont like about them. So the pissing contest ends here , lets keep it civil folks , thanks.
it isn't about me being a dealer or not, that doesn't matter. I am passing on facts about the hellion and facts of customers from other kits who own them. biased or not means nothing in what I have been posting. the problem I have with you Steve is the assumptions and opinions you are drawing with limited knowledge. whether it is the hellion, THP or just some other part, I would react the same way. to say hellion is over priced is just BS, how do you know? have you checked into the pricing of SS? have you designed a kit yourself? have you called to check on retail pricing of the turbo's? I highly doubt it. So you can't form the opinions you are just yet. even if you compared what the other kits come with. Why? because material is different, turbo's are different, each manufacturer has their markups and many other things. If you would stop mouthing off about the stuff you really don't understand I wouldn't have a problem and be so defensive. Again, it isn't about Hellion. you did it with MMR and I have the emails to prove it. I am sure you have done it with plenty of other stuff, but I don't go looking for your threads and don't have the time to deal with something that petty. this is all in a forum I frequent, so I will respond, but I am basically done because you still don't get a clue and again assume I respond because I am biased. it isn't worth my time anymore dealing with you.
now, in regards to your last sentence. The hellion fit great when following the directions and not taking short cuts. every car is different, so fitment is a little different. so there were a few things I did to increase adjustability of the kit for install and other things. all piping and everything fit fine, no modifications needed. some of what I did on my orange car are on my website, public info. I did a huge writeup, well a friend and myself wrote it up more like a story and install guide for my experiences.
I drove from Maryland to Forida and back. the only problem I had was a bad wideband sensor. no kit issues at all and if I had the tires I would have ran at moroso while I was there on vacation. I also took the car on the Hot Rod Power Tour last summer and met them in VA and had some stops on the way to Englishtown, NJ. On our last day to Englishtown we had about a 4.5-5hr drive that day. I got to the track where it ended, put c16 in the tank and waited my turn(about an hour) and got on the dyno and won the dyno challenge from everyone that competed from Florida to NJ. that was over a 90degree day while cruising. There is nothing I don't like about the kit. no cutting of the car required, installed with hand tools(aside from supporting the engine for Kmember install) and makes great power. Would I like more power? I am not sure. Who doesn't like saying I can make this or that? but 90% of these cars on these boards are not setup to properly use more than about 700rwhp. Look at everything Ken(hssssnsvt) has been doing to compete. if you were to really use that kind of power, you are talking about full cage, licensing, etc. what good is the power then? so you can street race bikes and stuff? Great, so you can't use the power on the track where it is safe because your car isn't setup for it, but you will go risk your life and others on the street, lovely.(that isn't directed at anyone in particular, just in general).
oh yeah, when I ran my 10.49 @ 138mph spinning through 1st, that requires some serious safety equipment at the track. so I know I won't be able to push my car to it's limits because I am not going to put a full cage in or anything. I would like to be licensed, but if I don't have everything else, there is no point.
now, in regards to your last sentence. The hellion fit great when following the directions and not taking short cuts. every car is different, so fitment is a little different. so there were a few things I did to increase adjustability of the kit for install and other things. all piping and everything fit fine, no modifications needed. some of what I did on my orange car are on my website, public info. I did a huge writeup, well a friend and myself wrote it up more like a story and install guide for my experiences.
I drove from Maryland to Forida and back. the only problem I had was a bad wideband sensor. no kit issues at all and if I had the tires I would have ran at moroso while I was there on vacation. I also took the car on the Hot Rod Power Tour last summer and met them in VA and had some stops on the way to Englishtown, NJ. On our last day to Englishtown we had about a 4.5-5hr drive that day. I got to the track where it ended, put c16 in the tank and waited my turn(about an hour) and got on the dyno and won the dyno challenge from everyone that competed from Florida to NJ. that was over a 90degree day while cruising. There is nothing I don't like about the kit. no cutting of the car required, installed with hand tools(aside from supporting the engine for Kmember install) and makes great power. Would I like more power? I am not sure. Who doesn't like saying I can make this or that? but 90% of these cars on these boards are not setup to properly use more than about 700rwhp. Look at everything Ken(hssssnsvt) has been doing to compete. if you were to really use that kind of power, you are talking about full cage, licensing, etc. what good is the power then? so you can street race bikes and stuff? Great, so you can't use the power on the track where it is safe because your car isn't setup for it, but you will go risk your life and others on the street, lovely.(that isn't directed at anyone in particular, just in general).
oh yeah, when I ran my 10.49 @ 138mph spinning through 1st, that requires some serious safety equipment at the track. so I know I won't be able to push my car to it's limits because I am not going to put a full cage in or anything. I would like to be licensed, but if I don't have everything else, there is no point.
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I know there's a lot of info to sift through here Steve before you can make the decision that fits your needs. There's certainly pros and cons of both single and double kits, but to be honest, either way will get the job done quite nicely if done correctly. And I may be a bit biased too because of the experiences I've had with the Hellion system, through working with Jason. But one thing I don't think we can conclude on is that the Hellion's lack power.
A thread like this is really only going to get opinions anyway. The info you need is out there.....you just need to find it.
I was present when he did his first Hellion dyno session with his Comp O. Cobra and it was darn impressive. He hit I believe 712 RWHP and 700+ RWTQ at 21.5 lbs of boost and there was PLENTY more to be had with the touch of a dial. The Hellion is certainly a top selling kit and there's a reason for this.und3rgr0undk1ng said:
A thread like this is really only going to get opinions anyway. The info you need is out there.....you just need to find it.
und3rgr0undk1ng said:
So it sounds like Hellion will be getting a call from you soon. Apparently you haven't noticed that the HPP kits "start at $7495" and the THP's have an "introductory price of $7995". I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But a better comparison is the 88mm Hellion kit and the twin kits.
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Sorry Dwight but 700 at the wheels on race gas isnt alot of power in my opinion. A 2.8 KB makes that easily or even a head/cam whipple 2.3. And if I'm gonna spend what it costs to go turbo then I want the ability to make that number on pump which is what the twin kit can do easily . Thats one of the main reasons I want the turbo, I can make sick power on pump. The hellion cant make tons more power then a whipple on pump, not enough to jutify spending the 7k+ on the kit. I make 660 torque at 22 psi with a lil torco, only maybe 50-60 less then a 21 psi Hellion on race gas. My motor is stock. Its not worth the grand total of about 10 grand to go hellion for that lil extra bit of power, bottom line.
I still havent really seen any other Hellion owners post up yet either. Wheres all the Hellion owners ??? The ones you represent Jason ....I dont see them postin up. Didnt Claytons car only make around 640-650 at 20 psi ?
And as far as the THP price, read what that includes. It comes as a complete kit. The Hellion will end up costing more, less power, similar spool up, and race gas needed to make 700+. Im not saying its not great quality overall, but I rather wait and have a custom kit made if Im gonna buy new. A kit that comes with the fuel rails, sullivan intake, k member, etc... for less then the Hellion. I can find a ton of threads just with google where the twin owners talk about the power they make on pump , thats what attracts me.
Im not "mouthing off" , its not like I dont talk to builders and car owners . I gather facts and opinions and thats where Im forming my opinion, thats why I started this thread.....to gather info. I cant speak from personal experience cuz I havent owned either kit. Then again you havent owned a THp kit either. So just cuz you know ONE person who had to have some parts recoated all the sudden the mild steel isnt good ? So far tho it seems like you're tryin so hard to defend hellion but its not needed. I didnt say overall it wasnt good, its just not the most complete kit for the money , fact. Plus Im not too wild about turbonetics, you can preach all day about how they're made for Hellion , etc... but I dont see anyone raving about that turbo. The Garrets and Precision support more power and have a better rep. These are all things I take into consideration. Who knows I might change my mind but Im just callin it like I see it as of now. And I wont be ordering an 88mm kit either, that doesnt suit my needs whatsoever. I'll leave that foolish purchase up to you Bullitt357, have at it. My thread is called single vs. twins, Einstein. Maybe if at least a few 88mm owners would post up we could get their opinions but I guess its not a very popular kit for one reason or another...hmmm. Too small of a motor to use such a kit eh.....seems very laggy which is why it hasnt even been brought up much. Go figure. Somehow I doubt the 88mm Hellions are flying off the shelf.
I still havent really seen any other Hellion owners post up yet either. Wheres all the Hellion owners ??? The ones you represent Jason ....I dont see them postin up. Didnt Claytons car only make around 640-650 at 20 psi ?
And as far as the THP price, read what that includes. It comes as a complete kit. The Hellion will end up costing more, less power, similar spool up, and race gas needed to make 700+. Im not saying its not great quality overall, but I rather wait and have a custom kit made if Im gonna buy new. A kit that comes with the fuel rails, sullivan intake, k member, etc... for less then the Hellion. I can find a ton of threads just with google where the twin owners talk about the power they make on pump , thats what attracts me.
Im not "mouthing off" , its not like I dont talk to builders and car owners . I gather facts and opinions and thats where Im forming my opinion, thats why I started this thread.....to gather info. I cant speak from personal experience cuz I havent owned either kit. Then again you havent owned a THp kit either. So just cuz you know ONE person who had to have some parts recoated all the sudden the mild steel isnt good ? So far tho it seems like you're tryin so hard to defend hellion but its not needed. I didnt say overall it wasnt good, its just not the most complete kit for the money , fact. Plus Im not too wild about turbonetics, you can preach all day about how they're made for Hellion , etc... but I dont see anyone raving about that turbo. The Garrets and Precision support more power and have a better rep. These are all things I take into consideration. Who knows I might change my mind but Im just callin it like I see it as of now. And I wont be ordering an 88mm kit either, that doesnt suit my needs whatsoever. I'll leave that foolish purchase up to you Bullitt357, have at it. My thread is called single vs. twins, Einstein. Maybe if at least a few 88mm owners would post up we could get their opinions but I guess its not a very popular kit for one reason or another...hmmm. Too small of a motor to use such a kit eh.....seems very laggy which is why it hasnt even been brought up much. Go figure. Somehow I doubt the 88mm Hellions are flying off the shelf.
the 88 kit was just released. there are only a handful that I know of out there. this board doesn't get a lot of tech talk. it is more garbage like this thread with drama. and again, your post has just more inaccuracies.
I could have made that power on pump gas. I opted not to. It was actually a mix of 93 and 107 unleaded, so really not race gas at all. I personally don't feel the need to turn it all up on the dyno like you apparently want so you can see something is worth it because of a number. you can't drive the car to use the power..but hey, you can make it, lol. And read man...I said the HP kit is the guy who had to recoat, not the THP. The THP I have only read about fitment issues and that was it. whatever, I don't see all these THP or HP guys in here either..why, well I already mentioned. there isn't a lot of tech traffic here. good luck with your decision. just don't call me for help.
I could have made that power on pump gas. I opted not to. It was actually a mix of 93 and 107 unleaded, so really not race gas at all. I personally don't feel the need to turn it all up on the dyno like you apparently want so you can see something is worth it because of a number. you can't drive the car to use the power..but hey, you can make it, lol. And read man...I said the HP kit is the guy who had to recoat, not the THP. The THP I have only read about fitment issues and that was it. whatever, I don't see all these THP or HP guys in here either..why, well I already mentioned. there isn't a lot of tech traffic here. good luck with your decision. just don't call me for help.
und3rgr0undk1ng said:
You're not going to make the same power on the 2.3 Whipple compared to the Hellion. You may think it was only "50-60 less" but there are other variables to be considered before even thinking that.
If you are dead set on power, get Twins.
You also can't compare a Heads/Cam Twin car to Jason's. His Longblock wasn't even touched. 720 HP on a remotely low boost is NOT something to shake you're head at. It is too hard to get a comparable basis because everyone will have something different.
Long story short, if you want numbers ONLY, get a twin kit but there is more to the decision.
-Matt
the only kb2.8 cobras ive seen making 700rwhp have 28psi.. take the 2.8 off and run twins at 28psi.. itll be a whole different game..und3rgr0undk1ng said:
lol to this thread
TRBO VNM said:
I was just wondering. I've always loved the fit and finish of the Hellion kit. Always have since I first saw it on your orange car. How much power can you make with a Hellion 76 on pump 91/93 octane?
2003Slobra said:
700 rwhp out of a 281ci motor is absolutley incredible no matter how you get
it ,when you factor in drivetrain loss and power needed to turn the blower its even more amazing...but as far as turbos go ... i like the hellion 76..seen one run at the drag day and it was bad ass..running low 10s in the 140s on medium boost. seen an hp kit take forever to get right also... googd luck
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