Someone familiar with Tuner pro, have questions

[1wild-horse]

So i built this car up specifically to go race it. Been solid last year and this year up til last week. Made a pass and the line blew off the frps. No biggie, put it on and zip tie right? Well the fueling hasnt been right since. Lean on the top at wot and also goofy at idle. Otherwise, car runs fine, no miss, just a hesitation when you stab it at idle, wideband goes lean then comes back to stioch.
Im looking at the data and see KAMRF values are 1.1-1.08 at idle... so here is my question, I may have this backwards.
It's read in lambda, so anything above 1 is lean. Since it's a learned value over time does this mean it's removing fuel?
Logically I can't convince myself that the issue is tune related since it had been perfect at wot. Seems like a part failure.
I swapped the frps out with the one off my other car which runs perfectly fine and it made no change.
Looked extensively for vac leaks everywhere else there is vacuum.
No egr on the car
New maf of same brand and size. I would expect this to have to be tweaked a little due to variance in sensors but it made no change telling me its not there.
Stuck a new wideband sensor in just to verify there's not something wrong with it.
So far, I'm not coming up with a part failure. The one far fetched option I can think of yet to try is upstream O2's..
I did add a N2MB wot box this year and wondered if the pop during no lift shifting may have damaged them? Doesn't seem likely.
Waiting on a reply from the tuner, but I see he's been MIA for a bit. Really driving me nuts, and I just missed a points race so I need to resolve it soon.
Anyway, I'll list some details on the build for context. Damn thing surprised me for what it is. Runs pretty hard for a little blower.

• Cast iron block, .020 over
• 9.5:1 diamond pistons
• Stock 03 rods
• Stock 03 crank
• DB heads
• 2.0 Kenne Bell w/ 15-16 psi pulley..verified by KB, 420 serial number. (I got up close and personal with this thing, rebuilt myself with a little expert help.)
• ID 1000 injectors, stock rail
• BA 3000 maf, JLT Cai
• Returnless with twin 340 E85 AEM pumps in the stock hat. Dual fpdm with wire upgrade.
• Longtubes
• Stock ecu with quarterhorse
Full interior, minus the stock seats, went 6.82@103.. ran a best of 6.79 stripped down and a pass at 104 before this dilemma.

If you have any suggestions, I would love to hear them. I can even send a log if anyone's willing to take a look.
Have a good day gentlemen

 

[01yellercobra]

What's the fuel pressure doing during all of this?

 

[1wild-horse]

Staying right around 40, per the frps.
Those kamrf's being elevated really make me think somethings up. Screams vacuum leak but **** if i can find one..I also caught during a throttle blip, the imaf went from normal idle 155-160 to 400, then down to 350 as the rpm was still increasing..

 

[1wild-horse]

I even have the failure logged that shows exactly when the line blew off. The data before it happened was perfect. Good A/F 75-80, pump duty cycle from hi 70's to low 80's, rail pressure at around 40..once I hit 3rd, the duty cycle dropped along with the input voltage, pressure went to 50..I'm guessing that's when the line blew off, then it commanded less pump..but putting the line back on should have fixed it. That's what's baffling me. What the hell else could have happened at the exact same time that would cause fueling to not return to normal once the vac leak was fixed?

 

[01yellercobra]

Yeah. Stuff like that wouldn't affect the tune. It has to be mechanical. My first thought was FRPS, but generally when those go it messes everything up. And you said tried a known good one.

Was that 40psi at idle or was it at WOT as well? It might be worth doing a smoke test on everything. Maybe it popped the gasket and it's only issue under pressure or vacuum. Do you still have the line for the EVAP that runs into the fenderwell hooked up?

Have you pulled the plugs to look them over?

 

[1wild-horse]

Yeah. Stuff like that wouldn't affect the tune. It has to be mechanical. My first thought was FRPS, but generally when those go it messes everything up. And you said tried a known good one.

Was that 40psi at idle or was it at WOT as well? It might be worth doing a smoke test on everything. Maybe it popped the gasket and it's only issue under pressure or vacuum. Do you still have the line for the EVAP that runs into the fenderwell hooked up?

Have you pulled the plugs to look them over?

Idle and wot on the pressure..I do notice that it doesn't ramp the duty cycle as high, or the voltage..but would that be due to rpm? Every time I find/try something I don't get in it very long because the af doesn't come right down to low 80-hi 70's like it did before. Compared to other logs it's a little lower. (duty cycle)
I've crawled all over looking for a vac leak. Sprayed at the base of the blower. Had the Cai off looking for holes. Used a vacuum gun to suck down the bypass just to be certain the diaphragm isn't leaking a little. Had the evap hooked to the vmv, but capped it off to test..no change..only thing left to cap is the climate control line.
And I did pull the plugs..thought I had it..found one withe the porcelian around the electrode broke and sitting down on the lower electrode. That's one of those moments where you thought you won...then it runs the same after replacing all of them and you go home for the day..lol.

 

[01yellercobra]

Would that happen to be an Autolite plug?

Does boost ramp up like it did before?

 

[1wild-horse]

Yes and yes..
Sounds like there was a bad batch at some point. Ran AR103's all last year..swapped em in new in May.. can't have 6 nights on them.

 

[01yellercobra]

Back when I first started playing with boost I ran the 103's and had a couple do that to me. I couldn't understand why my engine started running like crap all of a sudden. A buddy had a turbo fox and had the same problem I did. I told him to check the plugs and he had the same issue. I haven't run Autolites since.

I'm thinking a smoke test is a good next step.

 

[1wild-horse]

I capped everything there is to cap, minus the line to the frps. Was able to bring kamrf down to 1.05...if I add a tick to the counts at 145-150 in the maf table it squares it up to 1, but the wb is 94-98, rarely hits 1. Probably I'll advised.. I just wanted to see if I could get it to move..
So here's a question:
It's the same BA 3000 I had on the car, just brand new.. is there any variance from sensor to sensor that would cause a little tweaking to have to be done?

 

[01yellercobra]

Same model doesn't mean exactly the same. I'd be surprised if two different sensors read identical.

When you capped everything did you remove any vacuum lines or did you just plug them?

 

[1wild-horse]

There are only 3 ports on the elbow, pre rotor pack. Plugged them all. One downstream of the blower, that one is hooked to the boost gage and the frps.. I plugged the end to the gage just to eliminate them all.
Maybe I will swap the original maf back in to see if it makes a difference.

 

[01yellercobra]

Did you look over the lines as you pulled them? To see if any were split or broken?

Grasping at straws here.

 

[1wild-horse]

Yeah couldn't find shit..literally down to two, one to the bypass and one to the frps.(I said boost gage in the earlier post..i meant the bypass..) Which I have tee'd together coming off the lower intake and it will hold vacuum. Had an extra O2 laying here to try. Threw it in one bank, didn't change. I took video of the failed pass log..let me see if I can post it up.

 

[1wild-horse]

Found a couple small vac leaks that didn't get exploited with the smoke machine. Probably not enough pressure.
Going back to the tried and true method of watching ltft on the scan tool and spraying brake clean found them.
Once again frustrated, as it didn't bring them back down to the bottom. Still about 8%.. but I learned something. What ever the ltft is reading as a percent on the scan tool data, the kamrf's read over 1.
8% is still fairly high in my opinion. +/- 5% is always been the threshold.
I adjusted the maf table down low and it richens the wideband but doesn't get rid of the extra kamrf's.
That has to mean there is still a leak, but I can't even get the trims to respond to brake clean now.

 

[1wild-horse]

God damn, I think I got it.
I was using that plastic shit thinking it would be more durable. Well, turns out those connections leak like ****.. took the line off and plugged each end, pumped it up with the vac gun. Sure as shit, vacuum started to decay after a bit. Replaced with rubber and a brass T..
Added 12% to the maf from 150 ad counts down. Bam, after closed loop kicks in, kamrf's back to 102-104 wideband under and over 1 by a point or two. Needs a little massaging for that new maf sensor and I think it's back to game on..oh yeah, added to wot fuel too and hit the 78 lambse is commanding.

 

[Fopar]

God damn, I think I got it.
I was using that plastic shit thinking it would be more durable. Well, turns out those connections leak like ****.. took the line off and plugged each end, pumped it up with the vac gun. Sure as shit, vacuum started to decay after a bit. Replaced with rubber and a brass T..
Added 12% to the maf from 150 ad counts down. Bam, after closed loop kicks in, kamrf's back to 102-104 wideband under and over 1 by a point or two. Needs a little massaging for that new maf sensor and I think it's back to game on..oh yeah, added to wot fuel too and hit the 78 lambse is commanding.

I mean... sounds like you convinced yourself a slightly leaking line was the culprit after u made huge changes to the MAF table

Have you put a gauge on the line going to the FPRS and verifying it is actually reading manifold vacuum? What source is it coming from? Got pics?

You're relying a bit much on long term trims... things can affect how quickly and if at all when they learn, short terms are a better indicator if ur doing things like brake/carb clean vacuum leak check.

 

[1wild-horse]

I mean... sounds like you convinced yourself a slightly leaking line was the culprit after u made huge changes to the MAF table

I made the maf table change after swapping the maf out and fixing the small leaks. So I may have created a problem by introducing the new maf?
The whole problem has been real confusing because, really, putting that vac line back on should have fixed it. I can't post the log from the pass when it happened, must not allow that type of file? You can see the data was perfect until 3rd gear. That's when the vac line came off. Anyone interested in viewing it I will send it their way..dm me.

Have you put a gauge on the line going to the FPRS and verifying it is actually reading manifold vacuum? What source is it coming from? Got pics?

Did not actually put a gauge on it. Could feel vacuum there. Source is from the lower intake. Same port that will make a vac/boost gauge read. It's not pre rotor pack like off the inlet if that's what you're driving at. Should be same as factory, vac and boost.

You're relying a bit much on long term trims... things can affect how quickly and if at all when they learn, short terms are a better indicator if ur doing things like brake/carb clean vacuum leak check.

When I spray brake clean looking for a vac leak I do watch for the changes on the stft. That wasn't clear in my post. Those react off the O2's so its very quick to pick up the brake clean being ingested. But I use ltft to verify there is a leak present if they are elevated.. raising the throttle and they snap back to zero is also a good indicator. Also watch to verify the fix, if it starts to pull fuel out, you know you found it. In this case though, changing out that maf may have created changes since plugging every vac source except for the line to the frps did not remove all the learned long term.
What else besides me throwing a new maf at it and vac leaks could cause the changes to the learned long term values? Not receiving enough fuel I guess is a possibility..injector flow?

 

[Fopar]

Long terms are also o2 based... the problem with long terms tho like I said is the learn parameters. Stick to short terms for brake/carb clean checks.

Put a gauge on the line, make sure it has full vacuum and no leaks or restrictions

 

[1wild-horse]

All good there. I think it's just a matter of dialing in the maf table Since I installed a different one.