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The Terminator
Driveline
Soo happy!! 3.90's are on!
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<blockquote data-quote="jtfx6552" data-source="post: 1751957" data-attributes="member: 3823"><p>In the beginning....lol. when the '03's first came out, there was strong idea that the '03's would respond like previous 4.6 stangs to steep gears. There were many online arguments about how gears would help. Several members here went back and forth about it, challanges were made, and we were all gonna fight it out at the first '03 cobra shootout in bowling green. At that shootout, only two or three 4.10 cars showed up. The 3.55 cars ran better et's and better trap speeds. This obviously was same track, same day results. Since the '03s were almost brand new it was a good test because there were just not many mods available, and the state of tuning was pretty even. </p><p></p><p>After the shootout, a good friend of mine with 4.10's and I went to Atco. We both had similar if not exact tunes, he had an aftermarket x to my stock h, and I was running consistant mid 11's. His car had yet to break into the 11's.</p><p>I tried driving his car, we switched my tires from my car to his to eliminate that variable. We stayed all night, and he finally got one 11.99 out of the 4.10 car. My conclusion after driving the car was, it was very hard to modulate all the torque to the tires, and even when you managed to pull that off, when going into second you had your choice of lossing et to a slow as hell soft granny shift, or blazing the tires all through second.</p><p></p><p>Agter that night, he then switched back to 3.55's.</p><p></p><p>What do I believe this proves? That a <em>typical</em> pullied chipped '03 is better off with 3.55's. </p><p></p><p>With a straight axle, or more important in my opinion, "weight transfer aiding" mods, things may be different. Aftermarket lightweight k-members and A arms, 90-10 shocks, an aluminum block (like the 99 car you had) a blower and associated parts that didn't weigh anything, etc, and maybe the 5000+ ft lbs at the line could be taken advantage of.</p><p></p><p>I can tell you really tell you totally understand the trade offs associated with gears. If we were in person talking, I think it would be obvious we are both making the same point, al beit talking about different sides of the same coin. I just wanted to point out that more gear is not some no brainer, easy mod that <em>always</em> improves et.</p><p></p><p>Another reason '03's respond less to gears is because of the torque curve, Obviously with a manual transmission, once the clutch is out, with the tires stuck, engine RPM is dictated by the speed the car is moving. With N/A cars, the car has to be moving kinda fast before the engine starts to hit the power band. This makes a good launch with low numerical gears almost impossible. Either the clutch needs to be slipped perfectly, or the tires need to spin some but while moving the car out, so the car can be putting power to the ground while it is in it's power band. The '03 doesn't have this problem. Full torque is available almost right off idle. In other words, with n/a small block race cars with a typical high rpm power band, some of the ET improvement attributed to more torque multiplication of the higher numerical gear, is really due to being able to keep the car in the powerband on launch.</p><p></p><p>To sum up my thoughts on gears, the 3.55's are fine. If higher gears were free, maybe they'd be worth a try. But if I was gonna spend money to go faster, I'd spend the $500-1000 higher numerical gears cost installed, on more power, weight reduction and or weight transfer, and maximize what the 3.55 could do before switching.</p><p></p><p>To answer your last question on previous cars, I always lost et on back to back weeks when just adding a steeper gear. Then I'd spend money to get back to were I was, and rationalize that in it's new form, the car really did need the steeper gear. My 351W powered 82 GT ended up with 4.56's and 28 x 9 slicks with that reasoning.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that '03's do et poorly in relation to their trap speeds. I don't think it because they don't have enough gear. I think it is because in stock form they are nose heavy and transfer weight poorly.</p><p></p><p>It is funny that I look at F8LBITE's, Johnny L's (1.58 on Dr's) and "Venomous John's" 60 Ft's with stock suspension and conclude that the cars do have enough gear, and you conclude the opposite.</p><p></p><p>With your '04 I hope you do whatever suspension mods you have planned before adding the gear. I'd love to see your pure before gear and after gear results.</p><p></p><p>Like most, I'm sure the straight axle will have more gear when it goes in because it doesn't make sense to build up an axle with a gear you are convinced you won't want in the long run.</p><p></p><p>With my car, which will not have skinny's, slicks or an aftermarket front suspension, I know more gear would cost $, help my clutch, hurt my halfshafts, and at best not add anything to my et at the track.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jtfx6552, post: 1751957, member: 3823"] In the beginning....lol. when the '03's first came out, there was strong idea that the '03's would respond like previous 4.6 stangs to steep gears. There were many online arguments about how gears would help. Several members here went back and forth about it, challanges were made, and we were all gonna fight it out at the first '03 cobra shootout in bowling green. At that shootout, only two or three 4.10 cars showed up. The 3.55 cars ran better et's and better trap speeds. This obviously was same track, same day results. Since the '03s were almost brand new it was a good test because there were just not many mods available, and the state of tuning was pretty even. After the shootout, a good friend of mine with 4.10's and I went to Atco. We both had similar if not exact tunes, he had an aftermarket x to my stock h, and I was running consistant mid 11's. His car had yet to break into the 11's. I tried driving his car, we switched my tires from my car to his to eliminate that variable. We stayed all night, and he finally got one 11.99 out of the 4.10 car. My conclusion after driving the car was, it was very hard to modulate all the torque to the tires, and even when you managed to pull that off, when going into second you had your choice of lossing et to a slow as hell soft granny shift, or blazing the tires all through second. Agter that night, he then switched back to 3.55's. What do I believe this proves? That a [i]typical[/i] pullied chipped '03 is better off with 3.55's. With a straight axle, or more important in my opinion, "weight transfer aiding" mods, things may be different. Aftermarket lightweight k-members and A arms, 90-10 shocks, an aluminum block (like the 99 car you had) a blower and associated parts that didn't weigh anything, etc, and maybe the 5000+ ft lbs at the line could be taken advantage of. I can tell you really tell you totally understand the trade offs associated with gears. If we were in person talking, I think it would be obvious we are both making the same point, al beit talking about different sides of the same coin. I just wanted to point out that more gear is not some no brainer, easy mod that [i]always[/i] improves et. Another reason '03's respond less to gears is because of the torque curve, Obviously with a manual transmission, once the clutch is out, with the tires stuck, engine RPM is dictated by the speed the car is moving. With N/A cars, the car has to be moving kinda fast before the engine starts to hit the power band. This makes a good launch with low numerical gears almost impossible. Either the clutch needs to be slipped perfectly, or the tires need to spin some but while moving the car out, so the car can be putting power to the ground while it is in it's power band. The '03 doesn't have this problem. Full torque is available almost right off idle. In other words, with n/a small block race cars with a typical high rpm power band, some of the ET improvement attributed to more torque multiplication of the higher numerical gear, is really due to being able to keep the car in the powerband on launch. To sum up my thoughts on gears, the 3.55's are fine. If higher gears were free, maybe they'd be worth a try. But if I was gonna spend money to go faster, I'd spend the $500-1000 higher numerical gears cost installed, on more power, weight reduction and or weight transfer, and maximize what the 3.55 could do before switching. To answer your last question on previous cars, I always lost et on back to back weeks when just adding a steeper gear. Then I'd spend money to get back to were I was, and rationalize that in it's new form, the car really did need the steeper gear. My 351W powered 82 GT ended up with 4.56's and 28 x 9 slicks with that reasoning. I agree that '03's do et poorly in relation to their trap speeds. I don't think it because they don't have enough gear. I think it is because in stock form they are nose heavy and transfer weight poorly. It is funny that I look at F8LBITE's, Johnny L's (1.58 on Dr's) and "Venomous John's" 60 Ft's with stock suspension and conclude that the cars do have enough gear, and you conclude the opposite. With your '04 I hope you do whatever suspension mods you have planned before adding the gear. I'd love to see your pure before gear and after gear results. Like most, I'm sure the straight axle will have more gear when it goes in because it doesn't make sense to build up an axle with a gear you are convinced you won't want in the long run. With my car, which will not have skinny's, slicks or an aftermarket front suspension, I know more gear would cost $, help my clutch, hurt my halfshafts, and at best not add anything to my et at the track. [/QUOTE]
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