Unhappy with Carbotech 1521 Bobcat street pads.

[TheFleshRocket]

I wish I could get 200 miles before I had to clean my wheels from dust, more like 35! Hawk HP+'s will put you through the windshield when dead cold and only get better with heat. I have them at all corners, with SS lines, Baer Eradispeeds, brake cooling ducts, and ATE super blue. Pedal travels maybe 1/2", perfect setup for a 2k mile year car IMO.

I guess I'm opposite of what Carbotech's customers are wanting as I want hard braking and bite from the get go on my cars and bikes. I'll do the modulation with my foot or hand myself thanks. Oh and btw the most widely used race pads on motorcycles dust badly as well.

It sounds like you and I are on the same page as far as what we want from our brakes.

The weird thing is that I've used the Hawk HP+ pads before and was unimpressed. I had a set of EBC Greenstuff pads on my '89 Mustang GT and my spirited backroads driving hurt the rotors pretty badly, so I ordered a set of Powerslot cryo treated rotors. Powerslot recommended braking in the rotors with new pads, so I decided to try the less expensive Hawk HP+ pads. Stopping power was noticeably less than the EBC Greenstuff pads, so after a few hundred miles, I went back to the EBCs. So, I'm a little hesitant to try Hawk pads again. Out of curiosity, how much do they dust?

And, where did you get the cooling ducts?

 

[TheFleshRocket]

Just throwing this out there, but the Hawk Performance Ceramic pads are pretty decent. I mean they threw me forward to the point of causing me to be dizzy and feeling like passing out. lol They do dust a lot more than I had wanted though for a ceramic pad. If I could get this performance or better out of a pad that had more bite, I'd be in love!

I actually HATE ceramic pads in general. Stopping performance, compared to more aggressive pad compounds, is not the greatest. I've tried four different pad compounds on my wife's 300C--stock, EBC Redstuff, Performance Friction, and now the Bobcat 1521s. It's a big car, around 4300 lbs, but it has big brakes--way bigger than my Cobra or my Buick wagon. The sad thing is that braking performance from the 300 feels very comparable to the Buick wagon and lags behind the Cobra noticeably. I don't expect the Buick to be able to match the Cobra, due to its extra 700 lbs or so, but it ought to be able to easily outstop the small-braked, rear-drum Buick.

But the worst thing about ceramic pads is that they leave deposits on the rotors which result in pedal pulsation. The 300 was really bad about that, so I made sure to talk to my wife about releasing pressure on the brake pedal after coming to a stop to help cut down on the pad material transfer to the rotors. She said that she made a conscious effort to do so, but still every couple thousand miles, I'd have to do a half dozen hard braking maneuvers to clean off the rotors. I ended up cracking both front rotors on that car because I decided to clean the rotors during the winter (still above freezing tho) without warming up the brakes enough first. My Buick wagon was the same way, and that was with me behind the wheel so I know just how easy I was being on the brakes to avoid the deposits.

The Bobcat 1521s are, I think, at least partially ceramic and so far they haven't left any deposits on the 300 or Cobra rotors, so they're at least good about that. And I switched the wagon to some cheapy semi-metallic pads temporarily (while I'm trying to figure out what I really want to use on it) and those haven't left any deposits either, despite me abusing the brakes however I want to.

 

[Tractionless1]

It sounds like you and I are on the same page as far as what we want from our brakes.

The weird thing is that I've used the Hawk HP+ pads before and was unimpressed. I had a set of EBC Greenstuff pads on my '89 Mustang GT and my spirited backroads driving hurt the rotors pretty badly, so I ordered a set of Powerslot cryo treated rotors. Powerslot recommended braking in the rotors with new pads, so I decided to try the less expensive Hawk HP+ pads. Stopping power was noticeably less than the EBC Greenstuff pads, so after a few hundred miles, I went back to the EBCs. So, I'm a little hesitant to try Hawk pads again. Out of curiosity, how much do they dust?

And, where did you get the cooling ducts?

35 miles and I need to clean the wheels, definitely not for those who aren't willing to clean the wheels frequently. I have powercoated wheels though and simply clean them with a quick detailer and microfiber cloth. I'm very surprised the HP+'s didn't suit your needs. Hell I put them on used Eradispeeds and after bedding the pads per Brembo's procedue they were amazing!! Wondering if something happened to your pads/rotors during the seasoning/bedding procedure?

I got my brake cooling ducts from member 99COBRA2881. Heard Steeda's are better though as they direct air into the veins between the rotor faces rather than only at the rear rotor face. I don't autocross nor roadrace and the ones I have definitely made a difference on the street.

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

Yup, I have the Bobcats on the front and rear. I installed them within a hundred miles or so of each other. The fronts probably have ~200 miles on them and the rears around 300.

I haven't really done any sport driving with the Bobcats, just some straight line test braking to ascertain their performance, so I can't really comment on their ability to modulate while trail braking. I did the test braking near the ABS threshold but not enough to dip into ABS at any corner, so I didn't need to do any modulation.

Let me know if you're interested in all four--they're still on the car as I haven't picked a replacement for sure, yet, but I think I'm gonna order the Disc Italia titanium kevlar ones.

PM me after you take them off and send me some pics.

 

[TheFleshRocket]

I haven't gotten around to pulling the pads. They are very light on dust and stopping power is there with a strong push on the pedal, so I guess I can live with them. (my crappy Falken Azenis RT615s are the limiting factor in braking performance anyway--friggin HATE those tires.) When these wear out, I'll try something different, but for now the 1521s can stay.

 

[Andy M]

I have Brembo 4 piston caliper brakes (same as the Y2KR) on the front of my Terminator with custom slotted two piece rotors (from Full Tilt Boogie Racing), as well as powerslot slotted rotors on the rear.

I use Porterfield's R4S pads front and rear for street use. These are GREAT all around daily use high performance pads. They do not dust up nearly as much as other street pads I have used, and the performance is great. I use Performance Friction PF01's (front) when I do open track. I use Motul RBF600 DOT4 racing fluid and I have stainless lines front and rear. Braking performance is great and is really great when I am at the track using the PF01 pads in front.

Call Porterfield or visit their site at :: #1 Race Specialist in The World :: »

 

[Force4.6]

Seems weird about the dusting on the wheels, I have used the 1521s on the rear for a few years now without any problems. I do agree with the stopping power though, carbotech pads take a little getting use to compared to other pads I have used. They have a little less bite but are easier to modulate.

 

[TheFleshRocket]

Bump to a really old thread with an update. I never did get rid of the 1521s, and having put several thousand miles on them, I'm satisfied with them. Initial bite and stopping power improved noticeably, and I can't recall the last time I felt them being noisy.

My initial impressions were based on a couple hundred miles of use, and apparently these pads, in addition to needing to be broken in when initially installed, take what seems like a lot of miles to really perform well. Would I buy them again? Maybe--I'd probably spend a few hours doing more reading to decide for sure.

 

[Bigggy]

Don't mix Hawk HPS with HP+. I had both on my mazda and the initial bite with the HPS is simply scary! First time you will use your brake you will almost sh*t your pants.

HP+ are totally different, Initial bite is insane, even in the winter at -30C here in Canada.
They might squeal a bit and pu out more dust then the HPS, but I'm never returning to a set of HPS.