Weight

[Alter Ego]

Hadn't seen this posted. From the SAE paper:

Raj Nair earlier told Automotive Engineering that he expected the GT350 will come in “slightly lighter than the current base Mustang GT—3618 lb (1641 kg) with a manual transmission.

 

[Tob]

You didn't provide a link but I'll assume you are talking about this one from SAE International...

http://articles.sae.org/13712/


Definitely a good read. Another interesting one on the 5.2 engine, here.

Flat-plane-crank engines have limitations. First, the lack of counterweight balancing typically limits cylinder displacement to about 4.5-4.6-L due to greater second-order vibration. Ford has solved that in the 5.2-L application with a new crankshaft-mounted damper system and extraordinary attention to NVH abatement during the design and prototype phases. According to Nair, the engine program (which was concurrent with GT350 vehicle development) nearly wasn’t approved for production.

“This [vibration] was our biggest engineering challenge even after we had the first prototype,” Nair noted. “Things were breaking and the technical guys were worried. Whether or not we continued down the flat-plane-crank path for GT350 came down to a critical prototype drive we had scheduled. After that drive, we all went into a meeting room for the debriefing. And we unanimously concluded that we simply had to have this motor! We were determined to solve the issues.”

What followed was, in Nair’s words, “a lot of stiffening of the cylinder block, exhaust system, and various brackets” achieved through an intense FEA analysis, plus “a lot of tuning.” Nair said the result yielded unique torsional-damping technology among other patent-pending actions aimed at taming the beast.

The 5.2-L is naturally aspirated by design; boosting was not part of the plan. “We really wanted to stay with naturally-aspirated technologies for instantaneous throttle response” along with a feeling of minimal flywheel effect, Nair explained. He’s familiar with both qualities as a longtime motorcyclist who rides a Yamaha R1 sportbike on the street and at track days.

Other challenges with flat-plane-crank engines include their tendency to deliver underwhelming torque. Nair admitted that the GT350 “doesn’t have that electric-motor feel off idle that the GT500 has” but the latter also uses a blown 5.8-L rated at 631 lb·ft/855 N·m. Increasing cylinder displacement (via larger bore) to 5.2-L, which is 700-cc larger than Ferrari's V8 used in the 458, helped overcome some of the torque deficit. Nair also noted that optimizing the intake and exhaust systems for power, efficiency, and meeting cold-start emissions was tricky.

“Even the unequal-length headers we selected, to some extent, to help with catalyst light-off,” he said.

Good stuff!

 

[cobra199711]

Hadn't seen this posted. From the SAE paper:

Raj Nair earlier told Automotive Engineering that he expected the GT350 will come in “slightly lighter than the current base Mustang GT—3618 lb (1641 kg) with a manual transmission.

Did you catch this

"While price has not been announced, Ford insiders indicate the new Shelby Mustang will come in underneath the roughly $74,000 retail figure of the 2014 Z-28. And that’s significantly less than a GT-3 Porsche.

I hope like 20k plus under!

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

oh wow, this is the quote that stuck out to me...

“Even the unequal-length headers we selected, to some extent, to help with catalyst light-off,” he said.​

...i hope everyone is prepared for some MASSIVE numbers when a set of quality, equal primary length long tubes are thrown on one of these! that will most definitely be the best bang for the buck short of forced induction.

 

[jtfx6552]

Anyone else concerned modifying even simple things could cause vibration issues?

 

[Tob]

...i hope everyone is prepared for some MASSIVE numbers when a set of quality, equal primary length long tubes are thrown on one of these! that will most definitely be the best bang for the buck short of forced induction.

I'm very interested to see if the cats used on the GT350 mimic those on the 5.0 Coyote cars. As most here know, high-flow and durable aren't normally used together when describing "performance" catalytic converters. Then again, I have a 5.4/5.8 FI bias where cats simply don't live behind a well done engine.

I agree with you Ry, a set of long tubes on the upcoming 5.2 should certainly raise the roof a bit. The wail at redline would be pure harmony!

 

[01SVTSnake]

Anyone else concerned modifying even simple things could cause vibration issues?

Absolutely. I will be getting one myself. I'll probably be content with a catback for about a week until I want more power. Just dont want my car to scramble my brains with vibration cruising at 70mph

 

[guarnibl]

Did you catch this

"While price has not been announced, Ford insiders indicate the new Shelby Mustang will come in underneath the roughly $74,000 retail figure of the 2014 Z-28. And that’s significantly less than a GT-3 Porsche.

I hope like 20k plus under!

Not sure why they're comparing it to a Porsche, but if it holds its own with one on a track I would be absolutely shocked. That GT3 is insane around a track. Rear steer 9k rpm ceramic brakes ftw. I would be pretty happy if it kept up with the Z/28! Lighter weight, slightly more power... not sure about brakes though.... and the Z/28 basically has F1 dampening tech.

 

[biminiLX]

Anyone else concerned modifying even simple things could cause vibration issues?

I was thinking that same question for modding while at the same time wondering what durability tests are they referencing.
Some of those Ford tests are extreme (as they should be), and unlikely to be approached in what most of us will do with the car, even if modded.
Have to have a bit of gambler in you to buy this GT350 first year, but I'm sure the Mustang community will push the boundaries and find the weak links like we do for all new models. Part of the fun I guess, just this FPC motor might give us more than usual to learn.
-J

 

[biminiLX]

the Z/28 basically has F1 dampening tech.

Still waiting on Tob's posting on the new suspension.
Would love to retro the brakes and dampers to my GT500.
-J

 

[GT Premi]

I found this part most interesting:

... The 5.2-L is naturally aspirated by design; boosting was not part of the plan. ...

I guess that answers people's questions about throwing a turbo on it. They're going to have quite the task on their hands to get it to work and still be liveable. I'm sure somebody is going to try, though. Sadly, one of the first things that'll be getting posted is some shop ruining the car by turning it into a drag whore and trying to get it into the 10s. Something that is so far-and-away from the absolute essence of the car!! To all those shops, I beg you, PLEASE just stick to the Ecoboost and GT and leave this one alone! Pleeeeeeaaaaaasssssseeee!!!!!!!

Oh! concerning the original topic, 3618 pounds still isn't all that light. But I don't think the S550 can be made all that light, anyway. So any hopes of a super light S550 car can be thrown out the window. A body-in-white is still probably well over 3000 pounds. Ford's going to have to get away from the steel body panels and start using aluminum and/or composites, whether they be carbon or fiberglass.

 

[91z28350]

I found this part most interesting:



I guess that answers people's questions about throwing a turbo on it. They're going to have quite the task on their hands to get it to work and still be liveable. I'm sure somebody is going to try, though. Sadly, one of the first things that'll be getting posted is some shop ruining the car by turning it into a drag whore and trying to get it into the 10s. Something that is so far-and-away from the absolute essence of the car!! To all those shops, I beg you, PLEASE just stick to the Ecoboost and GT and leave this one alone! Pleeeeeeaaaaaasssssseeee!!!!!!!

Oh! concerning the original topic, 3618 pounds still isn't all that light. But I don't think the S550 can be made all that light, anyway. So any hopes of a super light S550 car can be thrown out the window. A body-in-white is still probably well over 3000 pounds. Ford's going to have to get away from the steel body panels and start using aluminum and/or composites, whether they be carbon or fiberglass.

While I agree, the focus of the GT 350 is definitely not drag-centric, I have to ask why you would care? If someone ponies up the asking price, and then proceeds to boost/nitrous the motor to achieve fast drag times, how or why does that matter to you whatsoever? To me that is as silly as if someone was railing against taking an old muscle car and making it an Optima Ultimate Street Car competitor. Whomever buys this car does so for their own reasons. While I agree that is probably not what I would do, I say more power (pun intended) to any shop with deep enough pockets to do so. I surely do not take offense when someone takes a C6Z06 and turns it into a drag strip beast.

 

[Tob]

I can see his point.

Removing the brakes on the GT350 and replacing them with some spindly, lightweight, smaller ones so as to fit 15's out back. Replacing the factory k-member with something from Granatelli (Jesus...). Bolting in some fiberglass shell seats from Jegs or Summit Racing. Yanking the MR system for some drag only shocks.

Egads...


It'll happen. It can't be stopped. But I don't think that the level at which it occurs will be proportional to that of the regular Cyoyte powered GT's (thankfully). This car has its sights set elsewhere.

 

[GT Premi]

While I agree, the focus of the GT 350 is definitely not drag-centric, I have to ask why you would care? If someone ponies up the asking price, and then proceeds to boost/nitrous the motor to achieve fast drag times, how or why does that matter to you whatsoever? To me that is as silly as if someone was railing against taking an old muscle car and making it an Optima Ultimate Street Car competitor. Whomever buys this car does so for their own reasons. While I agree that is probably not what I would do, I say more power (pun intended) to any shop with deep enough pockets to do so. I surely do not take offense when someone takes a C6Z06 and turns it into a drag strip beast.

It matters to me because it's damaging to the "new" image of the Mustang brand. As with the last Boss 302 and with this upcoming GT350, Ford is trying to evolve the brand. Unfortunately, there is still that disproportionately vocal minority of people/shops out there that only want to drive in a straight line for a few seconds at a time. For crying out loud, the Mustang is 50 years old! There comes a point when it's simply time to grow up. Everyone. These shops focus on dragging because it's fast and easy money. Let's be honest here. It's a whole lot easier to get a car to cut 2 seconds off an ET than it is to cut 2 seconds off a road course time. The latter takes some careful thought and engineering. The former just takes more power without blowing up the engine and a suspension comparable to riding a cooked alfredo noodle down a water slide.

I mean, which would be more useful on a day-to-day basis? A car that is more nimble and swift on its feet or a car that will roll over like a Yorkie at the first sight of a curve? In all actuality, everyone can benefit from a car that can handle well. Very few can benefit from a car setup for dragging. Just going for a drive in the country you're apt to encounter every kind of turn and undulation you would hit on a road course. Not much chance you're going to encounter a rubberized intersection with glassy smooth road ahead waiting for the light to turn green.

Holding on to that drag mentality just gives the Mustang a bad image. Personally, I'm tired of hearing/reading from the uninformed that the Mustang can't turn. That hasn't been true for years, but thanks to the folks who ruin a good handling car for the sake of blasting down a straight line, that is the image that soldiers on in peoples' minds about the Mustang. It's why people insist on calling a pony car a muscle car. The Mustang was never intended to be a muscle car. Its beginning was to be a cheap alternative to the European sports cars. Hell, even Carroll Shelby used Mustangs to beat Corvettes on the race track, and he did a la GT350/GT350R. It's so cringe-worthy seeing a Boss sitting on a drag suspension that I don't even watch videos that people post of one going down a damned dragstrip. Why couldn't that person/builder just have used a regular GT, instead? Yeah, yeah. Their money, their choice. Blah blah blah.

So yes, it matters to me on a personal level that people ruin Mustangs that were meant to handle. Does that mean everyone has to agree with me? Nope. But I wish they would! I guess I can at least take solace in that they aren't going to make a convertible version of the GT350 (nor did they the Boss 302.) Don't even get me started on that! LOL

 

[13COBRA]

.............Don't even get me started on that! LOL

Always a pleasure reading your posts.

Don't start next time.

 

[fangstang]

It matters to me because it's damaging to the "new" image of the Mustang brand. As with the last Boss 302 and with this upcoming GT350, Ford is trying to evolve the brand. Unfortunately, there is still that disproportionately vocal minority of people/shops out there that only want to drive in a straight line for a few seconds at a time. For crying out loud, the Mustang is 50 years old! There comes a point when it's simply time to grow up. Everyone. These shops focus on dragging because it's fast and easy money. Let's be honest here. It's a whole lot easier to get a car to cut 2 seconds off an ET than it is to cut 2 seconds off a road course time. The latter takes some careful thought and engineering. The former just takes more power without blowing up the engine and a suspension comparable to riding a cooked alfredo noodle down a water slide.

I mean, which would be more useful on a day-to-day basis? A car that is more nimble and swift on its feet or a car that will roll over like a Yorkie at the first sight of a curve? In all actuality, everyone can benefit from a car that can handle well. Very few can benefit from a car setup for dragging. Just going for a drive in the country you're apt to encounter every kind of turn and undulation you would hit on a road course. Not much chance you're going to encounter a rubberized intersection with glassy smooth road ahead waiting for the light to turn green.

Holding on to that drag mentality just gives the Mustang a bad image. Personally, I'm tired of hearing/reading from the uninformed that the Mustang can't turn. That hasn't been true for years, but thanks to the folks who ruin a good handling car for the sake of blasting down a straight line, that is the image that soldiers on in peoples' minds about the Mustang. It's why people insist on calling a pony car a muscle car. The Mustang was never intended to be a muscle car. It's beginning was to be a cheap alternative to the European sports cars. Hell, even Carroll Shelby used Mustangs to beat Corvettes on the race track, and he did a la GT350/GT350R. It's so cringe-worthy seeing a Boss sitting on a drag suspension that I don't even watch videos that people post of one going down a damned dragstrip. Why couldn't that person/builder just have used a regular GT, instead? Yeah, yeah. Their money, their choice. Blah blah blah.

So yes, it matters to me on a personal level that people ruin Mustangs that were meant to handle. Does that mean everyone has to agree with me? Nope. But I wish they would! I guess I can at least take solace in that they aren't going to make a convertible version of the GT350 (nor did they the Boss 302.) Don't even get me started on that! LOL

Agree.

 

[91z28350]

Here is concept, maybe people drag race because: it is fun? And if you think it is simply mash the gas and point the car straight, you have absolutely no clue how difficult it can be to make a high horsepower car actually go fast at the track. For the sake of decorum, I will bite back the response I originally typed and leave it at, agree to disagree.

 

[GT Premi]

Here is concept, maybe people drag race because: it is fun? And if you think it is simply mash the gas and point the car straight, you have absolutely no clue how difficult it can be to make a high horsepower car actually go fast at the track. For the sake of decorum, I will bite back the response I originally typed and leave it at, agree to disagree.

Good because my post had nothing to do with drag racing itself.

 

[91z28350]

Funny, it sure seemed to be a diatribe against drag racing.

 

[GT Premi]

But it wasn't.