cobraracer46
Banned
When are people who like breathers going learn that you need a vaccume to pull vapors out of the crankcase? :bash: :burn:
Breathers....
- Thread starter 01BlueCOBRA
- Start date
cobraracer46
Banned
smoe more interesting reading for people who like breathers:hard core PCV tech
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i think u got the wrong thread there sport
cobraracer46
Banned
you beat me to it. link is now fixed.quadcammer said:
I've been debating this too and I think we all felt the same at one time...
Does this or will this hurt the motor.
Honestly, I don't think it makes a bit of difference.
I can say this though: after 5k miles on the blower, there's no oil on the impeller. The car has been to the track a few times and has been through 3 dyno sessions.
At this point I would do it for looks alone.
Does this or will this hurt the motor.
Honestly, I don't think it makes a bit of difference.
I can say this though: after 5k miles on the blower, there's no oil on the impeller. The car has been to the track a few times and has been through 3 dyno sessions.
At this point I would do it for looks alone.
God damn it I tried to stay out of this cluster f*ck, but every time I'm out they pull me back in!
Deleting your PCV system will NOT harm your engine in ANY way! It is a completely beneficial mod. Here are the benefits. No oil in your intake which causes, smoking from the tail pipes, lowered octane, heating up the incoming air, oil burn off, all of which cause lowered power.
What are the main arguments against this mod:
1. Breathers don't vent crank case gasses.
The use of breathers vents them directly to the atmosphere! They provide zero restriction.
2. The gasses wont vent properly because there isn't a vacuum.
Pull the hose off (the one that connects the PCV valve to the intake manifold) and cap it off with your finger and rev the motor at the throttle body and feel that vacuum. There is less than 1 psi of vacuum because the engine gets virtually all its air through your wonderfully un-restrictive K&N.
3. The gasses wont vent to the atmosphere because ____ (some weird reason).
Rev the engine with breathers or just pull the PCV valve off (make sure to cap off the tube you pulled out of the valve cover to prevent a lean condition) and you will see hot crank gasses rush out. If you left the hole open you will see hot gasses and oil mist fly out. The gasses vent when the valves move the air inside around and heat is generated.
4. The breathers will destroy the valve seals causing them to rust.
How is using a direct filter any different than using your air filter to bring in fresh air to the valve covers??? Plus everything is covered in oil precisely how is every thing going to rust? Even if water some how got in there as soon as the engine got hot the water would turn to steam and escape out the breathers.
5. The oil mist in the intake is good and no mechanical / metal part will ever be harmed by getting a little oil on it.
The oil doesn't just get in to the intake it also sits and pools up at the bottom of the manifold. It sits and bakes which cause it to break down (thermal breakdown) which turns it in to sludge that will coat parts (like your valves and cause them not to seal completely) and it is not good. This exact reason is why IMRCs fail they get coated in gunk and wont move freely. And this is the exact same reason it is not good to have oil where it shouldn't be. If it was good to have oil in there they would have put it in there on purpose instead of by mistake.
Let me break it down for everyone. On your passenger side valve cover there is a tube that connects to your air intake tube. This is to let clean filtered air in to the crank case (or hot air back out). You replace the tube with a breather and cap off your intake tube. Net result you have just put a dedicated filter on it nothing more. On the drivers side valve cover there is the PCV valve and a tube that connects to your intake manifold (before the supercharger on 03 cobras). This is to let hot gasses out of the valve cover. The PCV valve is a check valve (a one way valve) so the gasses only exit there. You now replace that with a breather and cap the intake manifold off. Net result you have again replaced the ventilation port with a breather to let hot air escape. The original system worked as follows (simplified):
Your engine starts to get hot and as air inside the valve cover expands it needs to be released or there will be a positive pressure, so that air is vented in to the intake manifold via the PCV valve. As the engine cools down air needs to be let in or there will be a vacuum under the valve cover so air is drawn in from the passenger side through the air filter (to make sure it is clean dust free air). Now this happens as your car is running, because you run it hard and things heat up or you sit in stop and go traffic and the radiator fan needs to turn on to cool the engine down etc. But when you delete the PCV system this can all happen the exact same way except you are venting those hot gasses to the atmosphere rather than burning them in the engine (along with all that oil mist). All race engines do this, they never run with smog equipment and they are put through harsher conditions than your car will ever see. Race engines run fine at nearly wide open throttle for hundreds and hundreds of miles in certain races (NASCAR, IndyCar and the 24 hours at Le Mans for example). The only reason the engine doesn't come with breathers from the factory is that when the gasses are vented there is an order of oil (very slight) and the government will not allow that to happen cause it is "pollution" so they regulate that it must be burnt up through combustion. Well that is fine if you don't suck oil up through there and gunk up the engine, burn the oil and lower octane while raising intake temperature. Also don't argue that this is why breathers are bad if you aren't running CATs because that is much much worse on the environment and no one interested in performance seems to have an issue with that. I have been running with breathers on my engine for over two years now and the car has never been better. So please if you don't know what you are talking about, and haven't run your car with breathers or haven't opened up your intake manifold to see the problem first hand then don't state your opinion as fact when you are just guessing or regurgitating what others (who didn't know) have told you. On most engines the PCV system functions well and there are no problems. But on the modular 4V engine the position of the PCV valve is flawed and that is why this problem exists. Now I know some of you who think this is a bad mod will come back with all these bogus reasons (and that is fine) but don't tell others you know for a fact when you don't. That is how rumors and miss-information get around.
I have been telling everyone to delete the PCV system for years and every time I do it people who don't know $hit tell me my motor will die because of it. Bottom line open up a stock 4v and look in the intake and tell me it is bone dry, I dare you! The PCV system on our motors sucks (and sucks oil). Besides the benefit of breathers isn't just eliminating oil mist, it also keeps oil out of our engine which lowers octane and in boosted engines could cause detonation. And it keeps hot crank case gasses (air) from being fed in to your intake from the valve covers. Think about it, most cobra owners spend big bucks on a cold air intake but forget that they have incredibly hot air coming in from their valve covers. By using the breathers the oil is trapped by the filter portion and the hot gasses are vented to the atmosphere instead of heating up the air your car uses to run. This ancillary benefit makes breathers more advantageous in my opinion but do what you want. But at the very least you should put an oil catch in line with the system. In one month you will have caught 1/4 cup of oil that would have normally been sent in to your intake.
The last thing I am going to say is if you don't agree fine, but don't post what you have heard or read because you are just reading what that person read and reposted. Don't tell me that the engine will fail because of breathers unless it has happened to you. If we only deal on first hand information this argument would have been cleared up years ago. If someone ran breathers and they had ANY problems directly attributable to the breathers I would like to hear them and discuss it, but if you haven't even tried breathers or opened up your intake then please for the benefit of those on this board, shut the #%*@ up.
Deleting your PCV system will NOT harm your engine in ANY way! It is a completely beneficial mod. Here are the benefits. No oil in your intake which causes, smoking from the tail pipes, lowered octane, heating up the incoming air, oil burn off, all of which cause lowered power.
What are the main arguments against this mod:
1. Breathers don't vent crank case gasses.
The use of breathers vents them directly to the atmosphere! They provide zero restriction.
2. The gasses wont vent properly because there isn't a vacuum.
Pull the hose off (the one that connects the PCV valve to the intake manifold) and cap it off with your finger and rev the motor at the throttle body and feel that vacuum. There is less than 1 psi of vacuum because the engine gets virtually all its air through your wonderfully un-restrictive K&N.
3. The gasses wont vent to the atmosphere because ____ (some weird reason).
Rev the engine with breathers or just pull the PCV valve off (make sure to cap off the tube you pulled out of the valve cover to prevent a lean condition) and you will see hot crank gasses rush out. If you left the hole open you will see hot gasses and oil mist fly out. The gasses vent when the valves move the air inside around and heat is generated.
4. The breathers will destroy the valve seals causing them to rust.
How is using a direct filter any different than using your air filter to bring in fresh air to the valve covers??? Plus everything is covered in oil precisely how is every thing going to rust? Even if water some how got in there as soon as the engine got hot the water would turn to steam and escape out the breathers.
5. The oil mist in the intake is good and no mechanical / metal part will ever be harmed by getting a little oil on it.
The oil doesn't just get in to the intake it also sits and pools up at the bottom of the manifold. It sits and bakes which cause it to break down (thermal breakdown) which turns it in to sludge that will coat parts (like your valves and cause them not to seal completely) and it is not good. This exact reason is why IMRCs fail they get coated in gunk and wont move freely. And this is the exact same reason it is not good to have oil where it shouldn't be. If it was good to have oil in there they would have put it in there on purpose instead of by mistake.
Let me break it down for everyone. On your passenger side valve cover there is a tube that connects to your air intake tube. This is to let clean filtered air in to the crank case (or hot air back out). You replace the tube with a breather and cap off your intake tube. Net result you have just put a dedicated filter on it nothing more. On the drivers side valve cover there is the PCV valve and a tube that connects to your intake manifold (before the supercharger on 03 cobras). This is to let hot gasses out of the valve cover. The PCV valve is a check valve (a one way valve) so the gasses only exit there. You now replace that with a breather and cap the intake manifold off. Net result you have again replaced the ventilation port with a breather to let hot air escape. The original system worked as follows (simplified):
Your engine starts to get hot and as air inside the valve cover expands it needs to be released or there will be a positive pressure, so that air is vented in to the intake manifold via the PCV valve. As the engine cools down air needs to be let in or there will be a vacuum under the valve cover so air is drawn in from the passenger side through the air filter (to make sure it is clean dust free air). Now this happens as your car is running, because you run it hard and things heat up or you sit in stop and go traffic and the radiator fan needs to turn on to cool the engine down etc. But when you delete the PCV system this can all happen the exact same way except you are venting those hot gasses to the atmosphere rather than burning them in the engine (along with all that oil mist). All race engines do this, they never run with smog equipment and they are put through harsher conditions than your car will ever see. Race engines run fine at nearly wide open throttle for hundreds and hundreds of miles in certain races (NASCAR, IndyCar and the 24 hours at Le Mans for example). The only reason the engine doesn't come with breathers from the factory is that when the gasses are vented there is an order of oil (very slight) and the government will not allow that to happen cause it is "pollution" so they regulate that it must be burnt up through combustion. Well that is fine if you don't suck oil up through there and gunk up the engine, burn the oil and lower octane while raising intake temperature. Also don't argue that this is why breathers are bad if you aren't running CATs because that is much much worse on the environment and no one interested in performance seems to have an issue with that. I have been running with breathers on my engine for over two years now and the car has never been better. So please if you don't know what you are talking about, and haven't run your car with breathers or haven't opened up your intake manifold to see the problem first hand then don't state your opinion as fact when you are just guessing or regurgitating what others (who didn't know) have told you. On most engines the PCV system functions well and there are no problems. But on the modular 4V engine the position of the PCV valve is flawed and that is why this problem exists. Now I know some of you who think this is a bad mod will come back with all these bogus reasons (and that is fine) but don't tell others you know for a fact when you don't. That is how rumors and miss-information get around.
I have been telling everyone to delete the PCV system for years and every time I do it people who don't know $hit tell me my motor will die because of it. Bottom line open up a stock 4v and look in the intake and tell me it is bone dry, I dare you! The PCV system on our motors sucks (and sucks oil). Besides the benefit of breathers isn't just eliminating oil mist, it also keeps oil out of our engine which lowers octane and in boosted engines could cause detonation. And it keeps hot crank case gasses (air) from being fed in to your intake from the valve covers. Think about it, most cobra owners spend big bucks on a cold air intake but forget that they have incredibly hot air coming in from their valve covers. By using the breathers the oil is trapped by the filter portion and the hot gasses are vented to the atmosphere instead of heating up the air your car uses to run. This ancillary benefit makes breathers more advantageous in my opinion but do what you want. But at the very least you should put an oil catch in line with the system. In one month you will have caught 1/4 cup of oil that would have normally been sent in to your intake.
The last thing I am going to say is if you don't agree fine, but don't post what you have heard or read because you are just reading what that person read and reposted. Don't tell me that the engine will fail because of breathers unless it has happened to you. If we only deal on first hand information this argument would have been cleared up years ago. If someone ran breathers and they had ANY problems directly attributable to the breathers I would like to hear them and discuss it, but if you haven't even tried breathers or opened up your intake then please for the benefit of those on this board, shut the #%*@ up.
Snake Eyes said:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
See, this is what I was talking about. I actually appreciate your posts SnakeEyes, they're usually very informative . . .
but I knew this would get ugly since it happened the last time this subject came up . . . and never got resolved! :bash:
Good explanation of how the PCV works Snake Eyes (as always). What do you use to plug the holes in the TB and intake tract? Do you have any problems with oil coating everything in the engine bay?
I've running breathers as well.
To answer the last question...use plug caps. You can find these at any auto store for like $.35 cents. I also used small clamps to make sure they don't come off.
No oil will get into your engine compartment...you may smell a little oil when driving however.
To answer the last question...use plug caps. You can find these at any auto store for like $.35 cents. I also used small clamps to make sure they don't come off.
No oil will get into your engine compartment...you may smell a little oil when driving however.
lemosley01 said:
I'll field this one. If you have a lot of blowby, you will get oil over stuff. If you drive for over 2.5 hours when the car is hot at higher rpms(if u have gears for example), the passenger side breather may drip a bit of oil. This is not necessarily from blowby, but more because there is a ton of oil sitting in the passenger side head and it can drip a little.
I take a sock and cover the breathers to prevent any oil mist from coming out.
After like 3000 miles, you will have a good amount of oil in the socks, so just take them off and wash them, or replace them and you will be fine.
I can only smell it when i get on it hard, and even then its just a mixture of raw gas and a slight oil smell. The socks also help with the smell.
so where can you pick up the breathers?
socks??? reallly... lol
IT WILL NOT HURT YOUR MOTOR! ok F THIS. im gonna post pics today to show to ALL what it does. i have pics of the lower/upper intake manifolds before the breathers, and after the breathers. you will ALL see...............YOU NEED TO DO THIS MOD!
-marek
-marek
I know it would help me if I could get a part number from someone. I don't want to hit the part store and be like, "Yeah- I need a breather filter about this big around and this tall."
I like knowing exactly what all I need.
I like knowing exactly what all I need.
if you goto autozone or kragen, they have a K&N catalog, and they will get the part # out of there for ya i forget the part#. but get the 3" breathers.
-marek
i forget the part#. but get the 3" breathers.-marek
3" breather with a 3/4 inch "neck"....
Yeah sorry all but misinformation gets me a little POed, especially when it is third hand misinformation. It's just every one who runs breathers likes them and the only people who say dont run breathers are the people who never tried them. Anyway...
REX-RACER: Thanks man, I appreciate people who appreciate me.
lemosley01: No, The filter element in the breathers catches any oil. If it starts to get saturated you just rinse it out and re-oil the filter, just like you do a K&N air filter when it gets dirty.
RioRed4v & LaserCobra 98: You can pick up breathers at virtually any auto parts store. All you need is a crankcase vent filter with a 3/4 inch (outer diameter) shank and what ever size top you want. The K&N part number you need is 62-1130 if you want a chrome top. If you want a black rubber top then it's 62-1070.
Here is a couple of shot of my intake before the PCV delete. Since the delete, (and Exxon like clean up) there has been no more oil in my intake.
Judge for yourself.
REX-RACER: Thanks man, I appreciate people who appreciate me.
lemosley01: No, The filter element in the breathers catches any oil. If it starts to get saturated you just rinse it out and re-oil the filter, just like you do a K&N air filter when it gets dirty.
RioRed4v & LaserCobra 98: You can pick up breathers at virtually any auto parts store. All you need is a crankcase vent filter with a 3/4 inch (outer diameter) shank and what ever size top you want. The K&N part number you need is 62-1130 if you want a chrome top. If you want a black rubber top then it's 62-1070.
Here is a couple of shot of my intake before the PCV delete. Since the delete, (and Exxon like clean up) there has been no more oil in my intake.
Judge for yourself.
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I have the 3 inch breathers and I do like them but the passenger side gets dangerously close to my JLT. A 2 inch will work just as well.
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