my vert with subframes from MM is much stiffer but sure its not perfect, for street use its fine overall removed 90% of my rattles if not more lol
Difference in Subframe Connectors?
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Convertible guy here too...I echo Posi's post...
I have owned my car for 3 years now..I installed the MMFL about two years ago and they did make a difference...but it's not a HUGE difference like I was hoping for
If I could do it again and money was no object I'd go Global West. I am very happy with the MM ones that are on there, however I feel there could be some better ones.
I am like you, I have 13k on my cobra and refuse to hack it up......
good luck
I have owned my car for 3 years now..I installed the MMFL about two years ago and they did make a difference...but it's not a HUGE difference like I was hoping for
If I could do it again and money was no object I'd go Global West. I am very happy with the MM ones that are on there, however I feel there could be some better ones.
I am like you, I have 13k on my cobra and refuse to hack it up......
good luck
I have Hans Racecraft full length subs. Just leaving the parking lot after they were welded in was startling. It drove like someone replaced the chassis.
There are a few misconceptions with regard to sub-frames. One of them is they do not correct all the ills of this chassis. It just reinforces the floor pan while the rest of the chassis will flex somewhat at every turn and bump. Don't believe me? Remove your dash, kick panel covers, rear seat side panels, fenders and examine closely how this car is constructed
(no different from most other cars :nonono. You will have a whole new perspective on this chassis. A lot of the added stiffness your feeling when you drive the car is the fact the inside seat mounts are now anchored more securely to the chassis and not just a thin sheet metal floor pan which acts like spring under the seat. Regardless, this is still the best mod for an SN95 period! In a coup single rail subs are fine but in a vert I would install nothing less then a set of Hans or GW subs. They are not "jacking rails", that just happens to be a byproduct of their design.The downside is they are heavy and expensive but you get what you paid for.
OTHER
GRIGGs though the floor with Global West jacking rails.
I felt this way too initially but I wish I had done the Griggs now, they are the best.
I do love the Global West but they are not as stiff as the GRIGGs!
GRIGGs though the floor with Global West jacking rails.
I felt this way too initially but I wish I had done the Griggs now, they are the best.
I do love the Global West but they are not as stiff as the GRIGGs!
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Another Maximum motorsports guy here!
Odd man out here.
I have STEEDA's, they fit and work great.
I have STEEDA's, they fit and work great.
i have steedas on my fox and wanted to try something different and have always heard that the MM's were great. I thought they made a huge difference in my vert, just having had them installed on Wed. very happy. i think i would like to have a race fab shop construct something similar to the KB Matrix Braces- or the Global West/HANS style... shouldn't be that much. My main concern was weight though...Does anyone make subframes out of Chromoly??
That's what I wish I did. I would fashion them after the Hans trellis construction out of .060 wall chomoly. The Kenny Brown subs protrudes into the passenger compartment which makes leg room a bit restrictive.
Which is better apple or PC? which sounds best Bassani or mag packs? which is the best color green or blue? is it better to pick my nose with my left hand or my right?
see a trend here? ALL of thise questions are just like yours totally subjective. and people are going to tell you what they have or what their friends have.
Jacking rails don't really make it stiffer, but matrix braces do. I used the Maximum motorsports and had a custom matrix brace made. My car is as stiff as any coupe I have ridden in with other connectors (have NOT ridden in a hans equipped cobra)
Jimmy's car is a full on race car which is why he went the way he did. If you are not going to be hard tracking your car you don't need to go to that expense to get a fun yet stiff ride. pics of my set up are in my sig.
see a trend here? ALL of thise questions are just like yours totally subjective. and people are going to tell you what they have or what their friends have.
Jacking rails don't really make it stiffer, but matrix braces do. I used the Maximum motorsports and had a custom matrix brace made. My car is as stiff as any coupe I have ridden in with other connectors (have NOT ridden in a hans equipped cobra)
Jimmy's car is a full on race car which is why he went the way he did. If you are not going to be hard tracking your car you don't need to go to that expense to get a fun yet stiff ride. pics of my set up are in my sig.
:nono:
Guys who choose to drive verts should refrain from commenting on chassis integrity.
Your car may be as stiff as any coupe you have ever ridden in but it is certainly not as stiff as a coupe with with the same mods. A vert will always be behind the 8 ball compared to coupe in this regard unless you add a Jungle gym rollbar. There is more to stiffening a chassis then bracing the floor pan.
Just reading this post exposes your lack of understanding on what's involved here. To dismiss the Han's or Global West as just jacking rails is just plain stupid. Don't assume you have reached chassis Nirvana because you replicated a griggs installation. Looking at the photos for you chassis bracing I can assure you my Han's subs which have been integrated into chassis would make your set-up look like a wet noodle and that isn't even taking into account all the flex that occurs on either side of the floor pan.
Don't think for a minute a Mustang streetcar won't benefit from sub-frames
or chassis stiffening. Just ride in a 10 year old GT over a bumpy road and you will recognize this.
reading comprehension > you. perhaps you should re-read my post and then rewrite yours since most of what you wrote put words in my mouth, totally misrepresented what I said and has shown you totally failed to comprehend what you read. guess we all know why you're "slowsvt"
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I've got the Global West with the jacking rails. As noted above...they were a bitch to get in because alignment wasn't perfect and they do weigh a lot (although it's low in the chassis). But, also as noted, the improvement was stunning. My rides got 50K on the clock and still rides very well without noticeable squeeks, etc. Jacking rails are very convenient for...jacking...if you need to do a lot of it. I do believe the matrix DOES stiffen the car a bit more, BUT probably only to eliminate creaks and squeeks as they probably stablize the rocker panels outboard of the core frame rails.
That being said...the argument which is better will go on forever. Simply putting in FLSFC's is the 95% improvement...the last 5% is just an argument about weight, cost and convenience. I would do the Globals again...because I'm obsessive, but I am sure the MM units are just as good for most uses...they are lighter, cheaper and easier to put in.
Jimmy's set-up with the through-the-frame Griggs and jacking rails strikes me as the ultimate setup short of a weld-in cage tied to the subs and maybe a rear shock tower brace....which any New Edge/Term corner carver would love to have. (Now all Jimmy needs is to do is drop an aluminum BOSS Coyote motor and a Griggs SLA in his beast and I wager he'd be approaching BOSS LS laptimes...nudge, nudge, wink, wink.)
That being said...the argument which is better will go on forever. Simply putting in FLSFC's is the 95% improvement...the last 5% is just an argument about weight, cost and convenience. I would do the Globals again...because I'm obsessive, but I am sure the MM units are just as good for most uses...they are lighter, cheaper and easier to put in.
Jimmy's set-up with the through-the-frame Griggs and jacking rails strikes me as the ultimate setup short of a weld-in cage tied to the subs and maybe a rear shock tower brace....which any New Edge/Term corner carver would love to have. (Now all Jimmy needs is to do is drop an aluminum BOSS Coyote motor and a Griggs SLA in his beast and I wager he'd be approaching BOSS LS laptimes...nudge, nudge, wink, wink.)
nope but can try to find out. the shop that did them went out of business last year but I think I might have it in my receipts somewhere
Making subframe connectors out of Chro-Moly steel will not save any weight over making them out of mild steel, unless you make them less stiff.
Given a particular geometry, the thing that determines the stiffness of a subframe connector is going to be the modulus of elasticity of the material used. Mild steel and Chro-Moly have virtually the same modulus of elasticity as each other. If you use the same sized tubing with the same wall thickness, the subframe connectors will have the same stiffness.
If you use Chro-Moly tubing that has a thinner wall and/or smaller cross section, it will be lighter, but it will be less stiff.
This doesn't even begin to go into the welding difficulties of using Chro-Moly with the Mustang chassis.
Given a particular geometry, the thing that determines the stiffness of a subframe connector is going to be the modulus of elasticity of the material used. Mild steel and Chro-Moly have virtually the same modulus of elasticity as each other. If you use the same sized tubing with the same wall thickness, the subframe connectors will have the same stiffness.
If you use Chro-Moly tubing that has a thinner wall and/or smaller cross section, it will be lighter, but it will be less stiff.
This doesn't even begin to go into the welding difficulties of using Chro-Moly with the Mustang chassis.
I agree. Welding chromoly to the mild steel chassis would be the hardest part to get right. Having the stiffest rails on the planet do no good if they are not connected solidly to the existing chassis! I do not agree with the other points above, though. The whole point of using chromoly tube is to have similar strength while saving weight. This is because you can run a thinner wall tubing, and have the stiffness be equivalent to a thicker wall mild steel version. Kind of confused why you think that isn't true.:??:
Because stiffness and strength are two different characteristics of materials.
A fiberglass fishing pole rod is not very stiff at all, but it is quite strong.
Stiffness is a measure of how much (distance) a part will deflect under a given load (force). Strength is usually defined in one of two ways. One is yield strength. This is the load something can withstand without permanently deforming. Once the load is removed, if the part returns to its original shape, then it has not permanently deformed. Two is tensile strength. This is the load a part can withstand before it tears apart.
Unless you are installing subframe connectors to improve the crash safety of the car, you really don't care about their yield or tensile strength. You do care about the stiffness of the connectors, if your goal is to make the car ride and handle better. You are trying to stop chassis FLEX, not permanent deformation or tearing.
Chro-Moly steel does have much higher tensile and yield strength than mild steel, but that doesn't really matter here. The stiffness (modulus of elasticity) of Chro-Moly and mild steel are about the same. If you make two sets of geometrically identical subframe connectors, one out of each material, there will be no difference in the stiffness of the two chassis' once they are installed.
Does this make more sense now?
A fiberglass fishing pole rod is not very stiff at all, but it is quite strong.
Stiffness is a measure of how much (distance) a part will deflect under a given load (force). Strength is usually defined in one of two ways. One is yield strength. This is the load something can withstand without permanently deforming. Once the load is removed, if the part returns to its original shape, then it has not permanently deformed. Two is tensile strength. This is the load a part can withstand before it tears apart.
Unless you are installing subframe connectors to improve the crash safety of the car, you really don't care about their yield or tensile strength. You do care about the stiffness of the connectors, if your goal is to make the car ride and handle better. You are trying to stop chassis FLEX, not permanent deformation or tearing.
Chro-Moly steel does have much higher tensile and yield strength than mild steel, but that doesn't really matter here. The stiffness (modulus of elasticity) of Chro-Moly and mild steel are about the same. If you make two sets of geometrically identical subframe connectors, one out of each material, there will be no difference in the stiffness of the two chassis' once they are installed.
Does this make more sense now?
why wasn't it a problem to weld my moly rollcage in to my mild steel floor?? i think the bend strength would be what needs to be considered. It's higher with chromoly than mild steel.
I have Global West with the jacking rail and are awsome. I would recommend them or the Extreme matrix.
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