Facts About Royal Purple 5W-20 XPR Racing Oil

[jrgoffin]

Thanks for explaining, that makes sense. One more question, I thought that heavier weight oil was "bad" for our cars because of the tolerances in our motors? Or is this one of those myths? Was 5w20 recommmended for gas mileage and emissions, or because of the tolerances?

I apologize if this subject has been beat to death already, just want to clear some stuff up and get the right information.


EDIT: I found this: Oil ? for modular powered Mustang owners - Corner-Carvers Forums

Which seems to answer my question, let me know if you agree or not.

Well, some of that stuff is in the ball-park, but for the most part, the change to the 20wt oil was due to CAFE standards. I think there is a .11% increase in mileage or something along those lines (don't quote me on that number, but it is pretty small!).

Using a 30wt oil in these mod motor is not a problem, and some Ford engineers (like Scott W) out there will tell you it is the way to go. You would be fine using a 0w30 or 5w30 all year, no matter where you live (all that stuff about changing weights during different seasons is old-school mineral oil ways). Just depends on what brand you choose and what kind of driving you do!

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

There is a lot of good information in this thread (and some interesting visual material). I have been running Synthetic Oil since 1970 - in over 40 different cars - with no problems.

I've used many different brands and I think they all offer additional protection against wear and heat. I picked Royal Purple because it has a moly additive; I'm sure all the major synthetic brands have a similar product and they are all fine.

I ran into moly when I was doing consulting work in a lead mine in the Arctic Circle (about 50 miles from the north pole). They used Schaeffer Oil in all the engines of their underground equipment. They ran 24 hours a day and had to be reliable. They also ran it in the diesel trucks that ran 24 hours a day.

I used Schaeffer with moly and changed the oil and filter in my 1990 Bronco every 3-4 thousand miles up until it got about 230,000. I then gave it to my nephew (when he turned 18) and he beat on it for another 80,000 miles.

It now has about 310,000 miles and still runs like a Swiss watch.

I'm running Royal Purple because my Cobra is not an everyday car, and when I drive it I very seldom rev it high. It has been running Royal Purple street oil and I will now use the XPR racing oil. It only has 2000 miles on it. I consider the racing oil a good investment in the resale. I will probably only put 1 or 2 thousand miles on it before I resell it.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Thinner oil has less "drag" on the engine, so it theoretically will increase gas mileage (thus the change to the 20wt) and allow the engine to make more power. Don't get your hopes up on power increases, it is probably negligible.

As for the heavier oil, when it is run harder and longer, it will tend to shear to a thinner viscosity. Additionally, you are looking at much higher temps when you run at consistent higher RPM's, so the heavier oil will stand up. Most guys can and should run a 30wt for normal use but use a 40wt or even 50wt when racing.

There are a bunch of good oil threads in the GT500 forum, but is you want to learn the basics of oil, here is a good start (Bob is the Oil Guy):

Welcome

Joe nailed it!:rockon::beer: Those are verifiable facts.

You know that engine builder shoot out in that hot rodding magazine?
Nearly all the winners run 5w20 Royal Purple, year after year after year
--> less drag = more power + won't blow up.

I believe they even make a qualifying oil for the NASCAR guys that I think is a 5w10... They do not try to run 500 miles at speed with it though.

Oil is a fascinating topic and along with auto racing physics, it should be VERY interesting to most serious gear heads.

 

[jrgoffin]

Joe nailed it!:rockon::beer: Those are verifiable facts.

You know that engine builder shoot out in that hot rodding magazine?
Nearly all the winners run 5w20 Royal Purple, year after year after year
--> less drag = more power + won't blow up.

I believe they even make a qualifying oil for the NASCAR guys that I think is a 5w10... They do not try to run 500 miles at speed with it though.

Oil is a fascinating topic and along with auto racing physics, it should be VERY interesting to most serious gear heads.

Ha, there are a few functioning brain cells left!! Thanks Jimmy!!

Yes, the "technincal" aspect of oil is pretty fascinating. In addition to the information on BobIsTheOilGuy, I think there is also another document out there called The Motor Oil Bible (A lot of the Amsoil dealers seem to have it) that is pretty informative.

One last thing, since so many people aren't quite versed on what the oil weight numbers mean, a search of "SAE J300" is informative as is anything pertaining to the API standards.

:rockon:

 

[CobraBob]

It's not that racing oils do not have TBN (total base number - detergent additives) in the oil, it's that there are lower amounts in most formulations that their street version of the oil. Can you use racing oil in your street car, of course you can. Should you normally run it at extended drain intervals like a dedicated street oil, I wouldn't recommend that.

It seems that Royal Purple is simply adding more anti-wear and pressure additives to their street oil and calling it XPR. That would explain why it has the same drain interval capacity as their street oils.

Amsoil Dominator racing oils do have less TBN than their street oils, but that doesn't mean you can't use it on the street. It just means you don't want to run it as long. Why would a formulator want to waste valuable detergent additives in a racing lubricant when they know the end user will be dumping the oil long before it is due? That's the reason they are normally formulated with lower TBN content. Royal Purple appears to be the exception to the rule, although....they do not list TBN content in their product data sheets anywhere on their website.

Amsoil also doesn't list TBN on their Dominator racing oils.

Very good info. Actually this whole thread has a lot of great info, and hopefully those looking for oil facts will end up here with a search.

I'll add that when I had my '03 Cobra I used synthetic oil and still changed the oil every 3,000 miles (or 3 months). Oil (and a filter) is not that expensive and changing it sooner than later adds another ounce of protection for the engine.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

totally off topic but unleashedbeast that chick in your sig is smoking hot.

Her name is Shay Laren. Very sexy!

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Adding to all this, the racing oils also have higher levels of Phosphorus and Zinc in them, which is supposedly not as conducive to longer catalyst life. The new SM standard has the Zinc & Phosphorus levels limited to 0.9% and 0.8% respectively which translates to 900ppm & 800ppm.

As an example, the M1 5w30 has the Zn & P levels of 900 & 800, whereas their Racing 0w30 has them at 1850 & 1750. Not sure about RP, but many of the top of the line synthetics (Amsoil, Redline, etc.) have those levels up around 1500+ as well.

Correct you are about API SM/SN ZDDP limits, but Amsoil's top tier street oils are around 1300-1400 ppm ZDDP. I don't see a need for higher concentrations than 1500 ppm of ZDDP in a street car, this is another reason why I choose not to use racing oils.

My stock cats are still fine... bla bla bla.

and your cats will remain just peachy, despite the higher concentration of ZDDP. Here is the reason

NOACK Volatility.

The measurement of how much of an oil's mass is loss in high temperature environments. True group IV/V synthetic lubricants average about 6-8% loss whereas group III hydrocracked lubricants and group II conventional average around 10-12% of loss. Here is a simple rule of thumb.

A lubricant that is HIGHER in ZDDP and has a LOWER NOACK Volatility, will contaminate a catalyst no more than a lubricant that is LOWER in ZDDP and has a HIGHER NOACK Volatility.

This is a MAJOR issue why all top tier synthetics cannot pass the API SM/SN certification. If the API would take into consideration NOACK Volatility, and apply the variable to determine a greater amount of allowable ZDDP, then all Amsoil, Royal Purple, and Red Line lubricants would be certified under the API SM/SN certifications.

It really makes me laugh when people who think Mobil 1 is the best lubricant on the planet make this statement.....

"Amsoil is snake oil because it can't even pass the API minimum standards testing."

Well, if they would read into it as I have, they would never make such ridiculous statements. Especially since the oil below is API SM certified, and it's the cheapest crap you can find over the counter at any dollar or cheap convenience store.

Hey, it's even "turbo approved". :lol:

No way in hell I would trust a turbo car on this stuff. Trust me when I say this, it doesn't take much to pass those minimum standards.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Thanks for explaining, that makes sense. One more question, I thought that heavier weight oil was "bad" for our cars because of the tolerances in our motors? Or is this one of those myths? Was 5w20 recommmended for gas mileage and emissions, or because of the tolerances?

I apologize if this subject has been beat to death already, just want to clear some stuff up and get the right information.


EDIT: I found this: Oil ? for modular powered Mustang owners - Corner-Carvers Forums

Which seems to answer my question, let me know if you agree or not.

There is so much miss information in that thread.....please allow me to clear this up in a simple statement.

If you are racing on a road course in 90* plus weather, and the car is forced induction, use nothing less than a robust 10W-40. Make sure it's NOT API SM/SN certified. Choose one of the lubricants below. Amsoil 10W-40 is used in my GT500, and the results are excellent.

Amsoil 10W-40
Royal Purple 10W-40
Red Line 10W-40

If the car is daily driven, drag raced at a track, or spiritedly driven on the street, just stick to a robust 5W-30.

Amsoil 5W-30
Royal Purple 5W-30
Red Line 5W-30

If you require a 5W-30 (after reading above), and the car sees a LOT of cold starts under 32*F, stick with a 0W-30 instead of a 5W-30. This will reduce cold start wear.

Amsoil 0W-30

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I think there is also another document out there called The Motor Oil Bible (A lot of the Amsoil dealers seem to have it) that is pretty informative.

You can learn so much from reading the .pdf file you are referring too. I know of it very well, and have even done some cliff notes on it. I will quote everything I've done in another forum below.

This is everything you can possibly know about motor oils, and the best thing about it....the guy who wrote this doesn't sell motor oil. He just wants to tell you the facts. This is a must read to understand why true Synthetics are superior to dino and group III hydrocracked oils.

Motor Oil Bible

Hit up the index and go to the page you want to read more about. This is motor oil 101!

and on to the cliff notes! I try to help people....it's a long .pdf

This is an excellent area about Hydrocracking (group III base stocks)

PSEUDO-SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS
There are some petroleum lubricants available on the market that are so pure and refined, they can
now be passed off as synthetics. They are not made from true synthetic basestocks (at least not in the
way that synthetics have traditionally been defined), but they have so little in common with traditional
petroleum basestocks, it is really somewhat silly to classify them as merely petroleum lubricants.
Petroleum lubricant basestocks can be put through a super-extreme refining process called
hydrocracking. In some cases, as in the case of one particular name-brand "synthetic" oil, these highly
refined petroleum basestocks can actually be termed and sold as "synthetic". It is completely legal for
lubricants manufacturers to label these oils as "synthetic".
These are extremely high performance petroleum basestocks, but they are not truly synthetic the way
that most people understand the term and will not necessarily perform to the same level as a premium
synthetic oil.
Hydrocracking involves changing the actual structure of many of the lubricant basestock molecules by
breaking and fragmenting different molecular structures into far more stable ones. This results in a
basestock which has far better thermal and oxidative stability as well as a better ability to maintain
proper viscosity through a wide temperature range - when compared to a typical petroleum basestock.
Although contaminants are still present, and these are still petroleum basestocks, contamination is
minimal and performance characteristics are high. This process also can turn a wider range of crude oil
stock into well-performing petroleum lubricant basestocks.

Castrol, Mobil 1, and Pennzoil have abused this fact for many years.

and why a group IV/V base stock oil is better, the perfect analogy...a hammer versus rock theory

Synthetic lubricant basestocks have very little in common with their petroleum "cousins". They are used
for a similar purpose. But, while one is designed specifically for the purpose of lubrication, the other has
been simply transformed into something that will adequately do the job.
In fact, the relationship between these two basestock types would be similar to the relationship between
a big rock and a hammer. Both can be used to drive nails, but one will be far more effective than the
other. A hammer which is designed for driving nails will do so much more efficiently than will a rock.
In addition, the hammer will be able to drive nail after nail without any significant loss in its integrity. The
quality of the hammer will degrade very little over time. However, the rock will easily be chipped and
cracked when used to pound nails. In fact, you would probably find that after only a few dozen nails,
you would need to go find a new rock to pound nails with.
You see, the rock was not designed to pound nails. Of course, you could fashion it into something that
looked like a hammer if you like, but it's still a rock. It will work in a pinch, but it is not the right tool for
the job.
But, along comes "Nail Drivers Inc." with a novel idea. They decide to first determine what the qualities
of a good "nail driver" would be. Then they fashion a tool that is specifically designed to have these
qualities.
Doesn't it make sense that the new tool will accomplish the job far better than the old rock? The same
is true of a synthetic oil when compared to a petroleum oil.

How many main stream oil formulations are guilty of this statement? This makes me ROFL when they "cop-out" on giving exact specs and just say...

Other companies might list a test specification (standard or non-standard) and then put something like
"Meets or Exceeds All Requirements". That's a cop-out. Most any oil on the market should meet or
exceed any standardized requirements, otherwise, it shouldn't be on the market.

If you recall when I stated time and time again how Mobil 1 hides valuable specs of their oils by not posting them on their website. I already knew why, but this guy wrote about it in the Motor Oil Bible as well. Mobil 1 knows their new formula is inferior, but they don't want the general public knowing it too.

If you manage to get the technical data for a particular manufacturer's oil, keep in mind that every piece
of information that is missing from their tech sheet is possibly one more reason to assume you're
looking at an inferior oil. You can be sure that all of the tests listed above have probably been
conducted, with the exception of maybe the 4-ball.

AMSOIL doesn't do this and they reveal almost all specs on all of their oils.

For instance, the Amsoil company provides a fairly complete technical specification sheet for all their
oils, including both the NOACK and 4 Ball test scores. However, they leave off the zinc, phosphorous
and sulfated ash numbers for all but their motorcycle oils.

and the only reason why they do this is because....

So, if the information is left out it could be because the manufacturer didn't think the results were worth
of publishing, although it is possible that the manufacturer simply didn't feel the information would be
something you'd be looking for.
Or, the company might feel that you'll misinterpret the data. For instance, if you didn't understand the
importance of NOACK volatility in interpreting the values for zinc, phosphorous and sulfated ash, you
might see a high ash oil and figure it's of low quality and will leave behind excessive deposits. Or, you
might see the high levels of phosphorous and think that your catalytic converter will be harmed.

Synthetic vs. Petroleum
Oil is the lifeblood of your vehicle's engine. Without motor oil, there is little likelihood that any of your
vehicles would make it past the end of your street each morning. For decades conventional petroleum
oils have been providing adequate protection for all of our vehicles.
Notice the key word here: adequate. Petroleum oils, for the most part, have done an adequate job of
protecting our engines from break down. If you change it often enough, you can be relatively sure that
your car will last 100,000 to 150,000 miles without a serious engine problem - maybe even longer.
My question is this: Why are you settling for adequate when something better has been available for
about 30 years? Do you ask your mechanic to simply keep your vehicle from breaking down, or do you
want him/her to keep it running in tip-top shape? The fact that you are reading this book suggests the
latter.
It is perfectly reasonable to expect top performance from your vehicles. You are certainly paying for it.
It's tough to buy a vehicle for less than $15,000 to $20,000 anymore. That's a great deal of money to
shell out for adequate performance.
Today's engines are built for better performance, and, although petroleum oils are designed for better
protection and performance today than they were 10 or 20 years ago, there is only so much that can be
done. Today's engines need high performance lubricants, and synthetics are the only ones that fit
the bill.

Conventional petroleum oils are insufficient for use in today's vehicles primarily because they are
manufactured from a refined substance, as was discussed in Chapter 2. Petroleum oil basestocks
contain paraffins (wax), sulfur, nitrogen, oxygen, water, salts and certain metals. All of these
contaminants must be refined out of the basestock in order for it to be useful for use within a lubricant.
Unfortunately, no refining process is perfect. Impurities will always remain when any refining process is
done. It simply isn't economical to continue to refine the oil again and again to remove more impurities.
If this was done, petroleum oils would cost as much as synthetic oils do.
Thus, there are many components of petroleum oil basestocks which are completely unnecessary for
protecting your engine. They do absolutely nothing to enhance the lubrication properties of the oil. In
fact, most of these contaminants are actually harmful to your oil AND your engine.
PRONE TO BREAK-DOWN
Some of the chemicals in conventional petroleum lubricants break down at temperatures well within the
normal operating temperature range of your engine. Others are prone to break down in these relatively
mild temperatures only if oxygen is present. But, this is invariably the case anyway, especially since
oxygen is one of the contaminants within petroleum basestocks.
These thermally and oxidatively unstable contaminants do absolutely nothing to aid in the lubrication
process. They are only present in conventional petroleum oils because removing them would be
impossible or excessively expensive.
When thermal or oxidative break down of petroleum oil occurs, it leaves engine components coated
with varnish, deposits and sludge. In addition, the lubricant which is left is thick, hard to pump and
WHY PETROLEUM OILS ARE INSUFFICIENT
maintains little heat transfer ability.
POOR COLD TEMPERATURE STARTS
In addition, as was previously mentioned, petroleum oils contain paraffins which cause dramatic oil
thickening in cold temperatures. Even with the addition of pour point depressant additives, most
petroleum oils will begin to thicken at temperatures 10 to 40 degrees warmer than synthetic oils.
As a result, petroleum lubricants will not readily circulate through your engine's oil system during cold
weather. This may leave engine parts unprotected for minutes after startup. Obviously, significant wear
can occur during this time frame.

and this explains why a 100% true synthetic makes an engine run cooler and more efficient.

MARGINAL HEAT CONTROL
Even when all conditions are perfect for conventional oils to do their job, they fall far short of synthetic
oils. Part of the problem is that (because of their refined nature) petroleum oils are composed of
molecules which vary greatly in size.
As the oil flows through your vehicle's lubrication system, the small, light molecules tend to flow in the
center of the oil stream while the large, heavy ones adhere to metal surfaces where they create a
barrier against heat movement from the component to the oil stream. In effect, the large, heavy
molecules work like a blanket around hot components.
There is also another effect of the non-uniformity of petroleum oil molecules which reduces their
effectiveness. Uniformly smooth molecules slip over one another with relative ease. This is not the case
with molecules of differing size.
Theoretically, it might be somewhat similar to putting one layer of marbles on top of another (if this
could easily be done). If the marbles were all of the same size, they would move over one another fairly
easily. However, if they were all of differing sizes, the result would be much less efficient.
In the case of petroleum oils this inefficiency leads, ironically, to added friction in the system (the very
thing that lubricants are supposed to reduce). Hence, petroleum oils are only marginally capable of
controlling heat in your engine. Considering that motor oil does nearly 50% of the cooling of your
engine, that's not a good thing. But, I'm sure you've already guessed that.

and what I've been telling people for years, but they wouldn't listen to me

MAYBE ADEQUATE IS OK FOR YOU
I have to make something clear. Earlier in this chapter I indicated that petroleum oils are insufficient for
protecting high tech engines in today's vehicles. I say this for one main reason - today's vehicles should
easily be running for 300,000 miles without much more than a hiccup. Modern day vehicles are really
built very well.
It is my contention that using petroleum oils shortens the useful life of a vehicle considerably. The
problem is one of perspective. People still think 100,000 miles is pretty good when, in reality, 2 to
300,000 miles should be expected.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that my belief that petroleum oils are inadequate stems from the
knowledge that today's engines can run well for many more miles than they generally do. Since I'm one
who likes to get my money's worth, I'm not satisfied with adequate performance for a measly 100,000
miles. I want my money to be well spent.
However, I would like to make it clear that petroleum oils ARE adequate for the purpose of protecting
your engine, if you don't mind a shorter vehicle lifespan, inconvenient oil changes, or decreased engine
performance. Under normal circumstances, most vehicles lubricated with petroleum oil should run
satisfactorily for 100,000 to 150,000 miles without serious incidence.
So, if you like the hassle of changing your oil regularly, and you are only looking for marginal
performance for the next 100,000 miles or so, petroleum oils are definitely the way to go. By the way, if
you're interested, I've got an old dishwasher for sale too. You have to rinse your dishes first, it's really
loud and runs for about 3 hours, but it gets most of the food off of our plates. It's a steal at only $50. Let
me know if you're interested.
On the other hand, if you aren't all that fond of pulling dirty dishes out of your dishwasher, I'm going to
assume that you don't relish the idea of changing your oil every 3,000 miles or dealing with another
pushy car salesman every 3 to 5 years either. If that's true, keep reading.

Wait....what....lol What happened Mobil? Did you discover your profit margins went down when you let people know your oil was capable of 25,000 miles and one year oil changes? FAIL!!!! =P

All of the above leads to one inevitable result: Synthetic oils can be used safely for much longer drain
intervals than conventional lubricants. In fact, Amsoil and NEO synthetic oils have been guaranteed for
25,000 miles or one year since the early 70's. Red Line Oil has also recommended long drain intervals
of up to 10,000 to 18,000 miles for many years. Mobil 1 had a 25,000 mile oil back in the 70's which
they discontinued, but they are working on another extended drain oil currently. Other companies also
offer extended drain oils.

Exxon Mobil says, "It's all about the benjamins!" HAHAHA!

You might ask then, why other synthetic oil manufacturers are not recommending extended oil drains
for their synthetics. In my opinion the answer is really very simple: money. They are afraid that if they
recommend longer drain intervals, they won't sell enough oil - petroleum oil, that is.
You see, petroleum oil is their golden goose, and has been for years. The only reason large oil
companies produce a synthetic oil is because a few small start up companies did it first, and they must
please the small (but growing) percentage of the population which has already decided that synthetics
are better and won't purchase anything else.
Petroleum oil is where the money is. With recommended oil drains of only 3,000 miles, many people
are changing their oil 5 to 8 times per year. If everyone suddenly switched over to synthetics, they
would begin to realize that it is possible to go 10,000 to 25,000 miles or more without an oil change
(depending upon the oil). This is a scary thought for large oil companies and quick lubes who depend
upon regular oil changes for their business.

This guy really did his homework before he wrote this book. I love the line, "You won't find a link in my book trying to sell you oil."

Exposing the Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
The necessity of 3,000 mile oil changes is a myth that has been handed down for decades, and it's time
someone introduced the public to the possibility of extended oil drains. I guess, for you at least, that
someone is me.
I will tell you up front that I'm partial to synthetic oil, in case you hadn't already guessed. There are, of
course, certain instances when petroleum oil will be a better choice, but under most circumstances,
synthetic oils provide much more bang for your buck than petroleum oils do - you just have to know
how to use them to your benefit.
Now, if you're one who thinks that synthetics are just a marketing ploy to make more money off the
same bottle of oil, I hope you'll take the time to read through this information and judge for yourself.
You see, I believe the whole point of using a synthetic oil is peace of mind. I like knowing that I can trust
the oil in my car to protect my engine. I like knowing that 300,000 miles down the road, I won't
necessarily have to start looking for another vehicle (unless I'M ready). I also like knowing that when
20,000 miles rolls around, I still have a few thousand miles left to find time to change the oil.
Now, you're probably saying to yourself, "This guy is nuts! There's no way that an oil could possibly last
for 20,000 miles. And, if he's not nuts, he's some sort of snakeoil salesman."
Well, if you don't mind, I'd like to take a little time to, first of all, prove that I'm not in need of psychiatric
care. And secondly, I hope that you'll allow me to explain why I believe that a premium synthetic oil
CAN last for 20,000 miles or more.
By the way, you won't find any links from my book to sell you motor oil either - just in case you were still
wondering when I was going to get around to selling you some oil.
I used to be a pretty regular 3,000 mile oil changer. I had a very hard time believing that an oil could
possibly last longer than 5,000 or at best 7,000 miles. Changing at 3,000 miles was very safe and
"assured" me of no mechanical breakdowns.
When I started looking at synthetics, my perspective changed a little. I figured, if I was going to go out
and buy a $20,000 new car, I wanted to get the most for my money. Just protecting against breakdown
for a couple hundred thousand miles wasn't enough. I don't take my car to the mechanic and hope he
doesn't break it. I take my car to the mechanic so that he can make it better. The same can be true of
your oil.
Let's talk about oil changes first. If it's necessary to change oil every 3,000 to 5,000 miles, then so be it.
We should just do it, and accept that it's an integral part of keeping our vehicles from breaking down.
But, if it's not necessary, why do it? Just because our Daddy did? My Dad used to listen to 8-track
tapes too. Now we've got these nifty little CD's that sound clear as a bell and last pretty much forever.
Am I going to listen to 8-track tapes? Probably not.
I don't change my oil every 3,000 miles anymore either.

Well guys, this is a LOT of information, and that's only cliff notes from 60 pages of 177.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Best cliffs ever!!:rockon::beer:

 

[03 DSG Snake]

There is so much miss information in that thread.....please allow me to clear this up in a simple statement.

If you are racing on a road course in 90* plus weather, and the car is forced induction, use nothing less than a robust 10W-40. Make sure it's NOT API SM/SN certified. Choose one of the lubricants below. Amsoil 10W-40 is used in my GT500, and the results are excellent.

Amsoil 10W-40
Royal Purple 10W-40
Red Line 10W-40

If the car is daily driven, drag raced at a track, or spiritedly driven on the street, just stick to a robust 5W-30.

Amsoil 5W-30
Royal Purple 5W-30
Red Line 5W-30

If you require a 5W-30 (after reading above), and the car sees a LOT of cold starts under 32*F, stick with a 0W-30 instead of a 5W-30. This will reduce cold start wear.

Amsoil 0W-30

How does the 'standard' RP 5w-30 stack up to Redline and Amsoil?



edit:

Amsoils test shows Mobil 1 isn't too far behind Redline. No mention of RP.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I place Amsoil 5W-30, Red Line 5W-30, and Royal Purple 5W-30 all in the same class. All three should give close to the same results. Royal Purple XPR 5W-30 would be a tad better than the previous three mentioned lubricants. XPR is their race line of oils, and they have much higher concentrations of ZDDP (anti-wear additives). XPR would compare to Amsoil's Dominator racing oil line up.

The one test you sited is NOACK Volatility. That only represents the percentage of mass the lubricant loses in a high heat test, for a certain period of time. There is many more areas of testing that would have to be performed to select an all out winner.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

I place Amsoil 5W-30, Red Line 5W-30, and Royal Purple 5W-30 all in the same class. All three should give close to the same results. Royal Purple XPR 5W-30 would be a tad better than the previous three mentioned lubricants. XPR is their race line of oils, and they have much higher concentrations of ZDDP (anti-wear additives). XPR would compare to Amsoil's Dominator racing oil line up.

The one test you sited is NOACK Volatility. That only represents the percentage of mass the lubricant loses in a high heat test, for a certain period of time. There is many more areas of testing that would have to be performed to select an all out winner.

Yea I get the one test out of a bucketful bit. ZDDP obviously being much lower in the Mobil 1.

I've been using Mobil 1 5w30 since it is easy to get, been thinking of Amsoil but I do change every 3-5k despite what the ratings say. Royal Purple 5w30 might be my next choice before the next open track day.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Yea I get the one test out of a bucketful bit. ZDDP obviously being much lower in the Mobil 1.

I've been using Mobil 1 5w30 since it is easy to get, been thinking of Amsoil but I do change every 3-5k despite what the ratings say. Royal Purple 5w30 might be my next choice before the next open track day.

Choosing any of the three 5W-30 formulations I have discussed will give great results. The lubricant will give you an oil change interval well beyond 5,000 miles. Amsoil's severe service schedule is up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever occur first.

I would like to add this...

Our supercharged engines are rough on engine oil. I'm guessing from what I have seen so far that even Amsoil would only be good up to 9,000-10,000 miles before a change would be required. This is why I'm testing at every 2,000. I could be wrong though, and very surprised.

 

[mach1033]

Very interesting infomation in here. How come there isnt that much debate over oil filter's? Like which is better for road racing vs drag racing? Is the stock filter all we need or are aftermarket filters more superior? I watched how RP makes there filters and when I used it in my car I got all type of comments like WHY?

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Very interesting infomation in here. How come there isnt that much debate over oil filter's? Like which is better for road racing vs drag racing? Is the stock filter all we need or are aftermarket filters more superior? I watched how RP makes there filters and when I used it in my car I got all type of comments like WHY?

Usually can't beat the price/performance/availability of the Motorcraft filter.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

Truth in Advertising: BP vs Royal Purple

:shrug:

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Truth in Advertising: BP vs Royal Purple

:shrug:

I can understand why BP would attack Royal Purple for their style of advertising, but the claims RP made 15 years ago were not untrue. They just weren't telling you that those were the benefits of any true group IV PAO synthetic base stock, and Royal Purple wasn't the only one using it.

Now, where I do get bent is how they attacked Royal Purple for not having any engine lubricants that are API certified. If you recall, Royal Purple, Amsoil (top tier only), and Red Line all use true group IV and V synthetic base stocks. Please read the quote below to understand WHY they are not certified. It's not that they can't pass, it's because the API makes the certifications biased towards petroleum base stocks and prejudice against true synthetic base stocks.

Is there any flexibility in manufacturing an API licensed formula?

API licensing was originally developed for mineral-based oils, and it affords these oils more flexibility than synthetic oils.

Conventional oils comprised of petroleum base stocks may use a simple program called base stock interchange for added flexibility in manufacturing and purchasing. Interchange means that by completing the proper paperwork and running a few minor tests an oil company can choose to buy these petroleum base stocks from many different suppliers. This ensures adequate supply and competitive pricing. However, synthetic base stocks are supplier specific and base stock interchange is not allowed. For example, if a formula was tested with an ester base stock from a specific supplier then only that supplier’s ester can be used. Complete engine testing would be required to use that exact same ester from another supplier and is therefore not performed because of the associated costs. This inflexibility makes price negotiations with synthetic base stock suppliers very difficult and it increases business risk. Supply disruptions from only one source could shut down production.

There is also something called viscosity grade read-across. Fortunately, this applies to both petroleum and synthetic base stocks, although the better cold temperature performance of synthetics makes it more difficult to achieve in some situations. The read-across guidelines ensure that if a manufacturer properly formulates the lubricant for which all of the API tests have been performed, then the manufacturer may use that same basic formula to make more grades (i.e. 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, etc.) of the same motor oil.

Finally, there is a rule for substitutions in the CMA (Chemical Manufacturers Association) code of practice that allows a small degree of flexibility for all formulas. It allows a company to make changes of certain components in the formula with limited testing and paperwork requirements, provided that the additives are at the same or higher concentration.

So why doesn’t AMSOIL license all of its synthetic motor oils?

If all AMSOIL motor oils were API licensed, the company could not source new raw materials from multiple suppliers, which would greatly increase the threat of supply disruption and the likelihood of extraordinarily high prices. To solve this problem, the API must establish base stock interchange guidelines for synthetic base stocks just as they have for other base stocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.

Please also note:

Amsoil DOES have engine lubricants that are API, ISLAC, and Dexos certified. You will find that in their XL and OE line of lubricants. Want to know why they are certified, because they are formulated with cheaper group III "hydrocracked" petroleum base stocks.

Interesting, isn't it. Things that make you go...hmmmm! :read:

 

[SnakeBit]

I would like to add this...

Our supercharged engines are rough on engine oil. I'm guessing from what I have seen so far that even Amsoil would only be good up to 9,000-10,000 miles before a change would be required. This is why I'm testing at every 2,000. I could be wrong though, and very surprised.

I have been changing Amsoil Sig Series at 12,000 miles (but new filter and top off every 3,000 miles) and sending in a sample to Blackstone Labs for analysis. So far, every analysis has come back telling me to leave it in for another 3,000 and retest. That's after the oil has been in the car for 2 YEARS.

When I first began using Amsoil, I was told about a program where I could send in samples and they (Amsoil) would tell me when to change it. IIRC, that also involved using their bypass filtration system. That settled it for me. They weren't saying to change it at any specific interval, rather, "we'll tell you when it's used up." That tells me a lot about the company and their product. They're in it for the money, but they're not as greedy as say Exxon ("It's all about the benjamins!") or BP. Yeah, I know it's pricey, and maybe if I was commuting and using the Cobra as a DD, I might not do it. But then again I probably would. Especially after seeing engine internals with synthetic and with dino oil. It's like night and day.

 

[jrgoffin]

Yea I get the one test out of a bucketful bit. ZDDP obviously being much lower in the Mobil 1.

I've been using Mobil 1 5w30 since it is easy to get, been thinking of Amsoil but I do change every 3-5k despite what the ratings say. Royal Purple 5w30 might be my next choice before the next open track day.

If you want to stay with Mobil1, especially the 5w30, use the M1 High-Mileage stuff (it is an SL oil and has slightly higher levels of Zn & P). It's all here:

http://www.mobil.com/usa-english/motoroil/files/mobil_1_product_guide.pdf

I use the HM stuff in my 18,000 mile Cobra and 50,000 mile Aviator (and I probably have mentioned that before).

Usually can't beat the price/performance/availability of the Motorcraft filter.

The Motorcraft filters are made by Purolator.

The M1, K&N, and RP filters are the same and made by Champion Labs.