do 373s go to 120 in 3rd? to tell you the truth i did a 4th gear 70 with the 430s and i still lost by half car... rather then pulling right away then losing in 4th.. i would lose distance in the beginning then make it up once the m3 would hit 4th.. i sounds to me your mind is made up rather then read or watch the videos closely.
gear thread to end all gear threads
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do 373s go to 120 in 3rd? to tell you the truth i did a 4th gear 70 with the 430s and i still lost by half car... rather then pulling right away then losing in 4th.. i would lose distance in the beginning then make it up once the m3 would hit 4th.. i sounds to me your mind is made up rather then read or watch the videos closely.
You're correct in one aspect...3.73's are more advantageous from a higher speed roll to about 120-30. Seeing as alot of people with Mustangs like to take it to the drag or race from a dig and not do "Supra" still 70mph runs, 4.30's or 4.10's would come more in handy.
To be honest, i would personally never do 4.30's and its because of the points that you are making and that their advantage disappears at highway speeds. I say call it a day with 4.10's unless you take the car to the track on a weekly basis. (Hell, if you can't decide, pick up a set of 3.90's and meet in the middle)
To be honest, i would personally never do 4.30's and its because of the points that you are making and that their advantage disappears at highway speeds. I say call it a day with 4.10's unless you take the car to the track on a weekly basis. (Hell, if you can't decide, pick up a set of 3.90's and meet in the middle)
Actually you didn't read because nothing about your "test" is scientific. It is not about having my mind made up, however, since nothing about your test is scientific, it isn't going to change my mind. Like I said, if you did this, at a track, with times, on the same day, with the same conditions, I would be convinced. How do we know that both of you weren't slower the second day and you were just not as affected as much as the M3? I'm all about bucking the trend, I run a fully built NA set up instead of a blower, but this just doesn't make sense. More mechanical advantage = faster car. Sorry if I trust physics more than your crappy video and poorly written internet post.
So I pulled up my RPM calculator. At 60, you are turning 3900 rpm with the 3.73s and 4500 with the 4.30s. Assuming that you are shifting at 7000 rpm, you are already at 108mph with 3.73s and 93mph with 4.30s. To hit 120, you shift to 4th and with 3.73s go from 5300 rpm to 5900 rpm, with 4.30s you do 5300 rpm to 6800 rpm. You are clearly in your power band longer with the 3.73s. It just depends. I shift well above 7000 rpm and don't really do 60 rolls. I will keep my 4.30s, you may keep your 3.73s. If we are both happy, why argue which is better? Let the track times determine that. One thing that you have proved is that one set of gears isn't the optimal set for every car and every race. Which, to anyone that has a brain, is not new information.
This is good real world testing that we don’t often get. I think the biggest problem is that it doesn’t match with what is universally accepted in terms of gearing but it's important to remember that there are no cookie cutters when it comes to hot rodding and the DOHC is often off the grid in terms of expectations. Sometimes good, sometimes not so much.
One of the 99 - 04 DOHC's most unusual and sometimes frustrating characteristics is the root of this unexpected result. Namely, the intake manifold. The design provides exceptional torque down low but truncates the power on the top end so we get TQ and HP curves that don’t work in a typical fashion.
How this applies to this situation is in understanding that HP is not the only thing that moves a vehicle. When calculating acceleration we have to look at the RPM range in which the vehicle is operating in each gear, then look at the corresponding torque and horsepower within that range.
Fortunately Mach916 just had his car dynoed and so his previous post has made that information available to us. The bottom line is that the vehicle is seeing more average tq/hp over the RPM range the 3.73's are providing between 60 - 120 mph. His real world testing is accurate.
One of the 99 - 04 DOHC's most unusual and sometimes frustrating characteristics is the root of this unexpected result. Namely, the intake manifold. The design provides exceptional torque down low but truncates the power on the top end so we get TQ and HP curves that don’t work in a typical fashion.
How this applies to this situation is in understanding that HP is not the only thing that moves a vehicle. When calculating acceleration we have to look at the RPM range in which the vehicle is operating in each gear, then look at the corresponding torque and horsepower within that range.
Fortunately Mach916 just had his car dynoed and so his previous post has made that information available to us. The bottom line is that the vehicle is seeing more average tq/hp over the RPM range the 3.73's are providing between 60 - 120 mph. His real world testing is accurate.
Run him from a dig with the 4.30's and you will win every time.....if you are a good driver. Even then you should still be able to beat him from the dig as a bad driver. Roll racing really doesn't prove much unless you are a Import (supra, honda and whatever else there is that thinks thats cool) that can't race from a dig.
brotha you know how to do a scientific test??? the track is far from a controlled enviroment and variables.. so if someone would only accept "scientific" results it would have to be in some type of a lab with a dyno.. so anyone looking for scientific information im sorry because i dont have any.. :lol:
thanks mr todd :beer: yeah i shift early in 3rd (6600ish) so i can hit my peak tq in 4th...i can hear and feel the car snarl while pulling infront of the m3..
How about we just say that those gears work for YOUR combo? Which is what's happening here. Just like I wouldn't run 4.10's in my car because I'd blow the tires off everytime. Every set up is different. There's a lot of data backing up the steeper gears with stock 99/01 4V's. Once you start modding like you have then the ideal gear for the set up is going to change.
No problem. Thanks for forcing us to re-evaluate the status-quo. Like olgreydog, I had to go back to the RPM/Speed/Gear Calculator to figure this one out. Plotting your HP and TQ curves, along with the RPM range before and after the gear change is pretty enlightening. I look forward to looking at other dyno sheets in my collection to see what those curves look like.
It'll only be a matter of time before I snap a 28 spline axle at the dragstrip, then I'll upgrade to 31 spline with 3.73's, still rockin the stockers!
On the same day at the same track within a couple hours of each run is much more scientific than a random street race probably months apart. Way to bash just because someone pointed out the flaw in your "all low gears suck" theory. I basically said the same thing as Todd, just in a different way.
its not that you pointed out a flaw... you pointed out a flawed solution..and i never stated my test wasnt flawed..but it is pretty soild..
i agree its working for me and not a cure for all...but for na street cars with a stock intake runner length manifold.. i "believe" less is more... if i had your power if be rockin the 3.27s for sure..
How is this the
"gear thread to end all gear threads"?
"gear thread to end all gear threads"?
Ugh roll racing.....
because 90 percent of people here lower thier cars, dont roll with drs, have a stock intake manifold length and also most have stock cams.. so for your basic cobra 355-373s are best.. my car has cams with 373s and i took off at 60 in 3rd gear.. all things that are a no noo but still won.. how you figure? its funny to me how all the proof is infront of you but you choose not to accept. everyone that was around me jaws dropped because they were like all of you guys.. gears help with acceleration at alll points.. i sorry to tell you the world is round..soo get out of your box :rockon:
Yes, "90 percent of people here lower their cars, don't roll with drs, have a stock intake manifold length and also most have stock cams", however, I bet that 80% are smart enough to not race from a 60mph roll.
Every combo is different, those gears work for you, that's great. Those that race from a 60mph roll can heed your advice and go the same way you did, but this is by far not the "gear thread to end all gear threads."
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I didn't even run from 60mph and you do in your n/a cobra?
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