*Oxford White Terminator with Deep Dish 03 Chromies*

[Invictus]

oke: Yea, hi there......

With all do respect, you're a moron.

I understand that you assume that if you pay for something, it automatically makes it better. It makes sense typically. HOWEVER, in this case you are not correct.

03/04 Cobra's come with linear rate springs. I will find the equation if you like. (edit: just looked it up....the rate is 600lb/in front and rear and vert is 500lb/in front 470lb/in rear).

Now your argument would make sense if the Cobra's had PROGRESSIVE rate springs which travel distance comes into play changing rate as the spring is compressed. However with linear rate, the rate remains constant through the entire distance of compression. Cutting springs do NOT affect the integrity of the spring itself. A linear rate spring has a constant spring rating, no matter how much the spring is compressed, for example 600lb/in. This means that for every 600 pounds of pressure, there will be 1 inch of spring compression. A progressive rate spring will have a variable spring rate, for example 425-630lb/in. This means that it may take 425 pounds for 1 inch of compression, but as the spring compresses more it will rise to as much as 630 pounds of pressure. To put it simply, the spring "progressively" gets stiffer as it is compressed.

Unlike linear rate springs, progressive rate springs will change when cut. The tension changes on progressive rate springs change as they are compressed getting more tension as they are compressed. Understand? Therefore, if you cut some spring out, you reduce the distance the spring has to travel to reach full compression.

Now, I know what you are thinking....
You are wondering if the tension rate of said cut spring is effectively similar to your "$275 springs". I have plugged in the numbers once before on another site for this particular reason (someone thought what you thought) and guess what? The rates are almost identical on H&R SS max compression. Aftermarket springs ARE however Progressive rate, which SOME would argue are better, but I would rather my springs not be as soft on the initial compression because of how low my car is. Although the mere 80 or so lb/in difference in initial compression (depending on the spring) is a miniscule ammount when compared to overall comression rate and cant really be noticed, unless you are running around "The Ring".

So BASICALLY what this means is a stock spring cut to the SAME height as....say an H&R SS, will maintain the same tension rate thus giving you the same benefits of having the aftermarket springs unless you are pushing your car in auto X to the ABSOLUTE EDGE of the envelope.

So, unless you are going with a coilover setup or something a bit more extreme, or you autocross daily, you are waisting money. Because in everyday driving, you arent really ever going to notice the ~80lb/in initial difference (again depending on spring).

Unless of course you are one of those people that just want them to add to a mod list and make people think you bought the "best".

And before you say it.....I have had both.

:beer:

:beer:

 

[not Jake]

I'm done with the springs. I cut 7/8's coil all the way around. We have crappy roads or I would have gone 1 full coil. I guess I could post a crappy shot. But I might wait and just get good pictures tomorrow...

 

[not Jake]

I have a pretty helpfull writeup on it if you need it. Just let me know and i will PM it to you.

I read through yours before I started. :beer:

 

[scancion]

Nah. I like the Stock chromes better.

 

[MAD SVT]

^+1

 

[RussZTT]

Not a fan, stockers FTW

 

[not Jake]

I'll post these here and update my first post with them, too.

7/8 coil cut front and rear. Iso's in. After driving ~10 miles it seems to sit a tad lower, not much.

 

[not Jake]

Daytime photos. These headlights look like crap.

 

[jrd699]

Man looks good looking straight at the side of the car, oldstyle muscle car look. I just wanna see what the car would look like with dd all the way around, as i also have an oxford 03 and want to get a set of wheels for it.

 

[Smacked_in_ATL]

Anytime you are running a deep dish wheel, it will look a little smaller, especially in a 17". I think they look okay, but again, the fronts look bigger than the rear, and that is upsetting.

 

[Pete's 03]

oke: Yea, hi there......

With all do respect, you're a moron.

I understand that you assume that if you pay for something, it automatically makes it better. It makes sense typically. HOWEVER, in this case you are not correct.

03/04 Cobra's come with linear rate springs. I will find the equation if you like. (edit: just looked it up....the rate is 600lb/in front and rear and vert is 500lb/in front 470lb/in rear).

Now your argument would make sense if the Cobra's had PROGRESSIVE rate springs which travel distance comes into play changing rate as the spring is compressed. However with linear rate, the rate remains constant through the entire distance of compression. Cutting springs do NOT affect the integrity of the spring itself. A linear rate spring has a constant spring rating, no matter how much the spring is compressed, for example 600lb/in. This means that for every 600 pounds of pressure, there will be 1 inch of spring compression. A progressive rate spring will have a variable spring rate, for example 425-630lb/in. This means that it may take 425 pounds for 1 inch of compression, but as the spring compresses more it will rise to as much as 630 pounds of pressure. To put it simply, the spring "progressively" gets stiffer as it is compressed.

Unlike linear rate springs, progressive rate springs will change when cut. The tension changes on progressive rate springs change as they are compressed getting more tension as they are compressed. Understand? Therefore, if you cut some spring out, you reduce the distance the spring has to travel to reach full compression.

Now, I know what you are thinking....
You are wondering if the tension rate of said cut spring is effectively similar to your "$275 springs". I have plugged in the numbers once before on another site for this particular reason (someone thought what you thought) and guess what? The rates are almost identical on H&R SS max compression. Aftermarket springs ARE however Progressive rate, which SOME would argue are better, but I would rather my springs not be as soft on the initial compression because of how low my car is. Although the mere 80 or so lb/in difference in initial compression (depending on the spring) is a miniscule ammount when compared to overall comression rate and cant really be noticed, unless you are running around "The Ring".

So BASICALLY what this means is a stock spring cut to the SAME height as....say an H&R SS, will maintain the same tension rate thus giving you the same benefits of having the aftermarket springs unless you are pushing your car in auto X to the ABSOLUTE EDGE of the envelope.

So, unless you are going with a coilover setup or something a bit more extreme, or you autocross daily, you are waisting money. Because in everyday driving, you arent really ever going to notice the ~80lb/in initial difference (again depending on spring).

Unless of course you are one of those people that just want them to add to a mod list and make people think you bought the "best".

And before you say it.....I have had both.

:beer:

First of all, I'm not a moron. I can however guarantee that I have installed more springs, and cut more springs than almost everyone on this site. I managed an automotive accessory shop for 8 years and also installed everything that we sold. In that time I put in probably 300 sets of springs and cut at least 100 sets on every type of car out there. This does by no means make me an expert on springs, but I can be pretty sure that I know a lot more than the average person. I appreciate you informing the people on this site who do not know the difference between progressive rate and linear rate springs, but unfortunitley for you, this moron does know the difference. I do not assume that just because I decided to buy aftermarket springs for my car, and some people chose to cut them that mine are automatically better. The reason most all aftermarket lowering springs are progressive rate is so they can maintian a similar to stock overall spring length, while still offering a lower ride hiehgt of say 2". Many cars, when cutting enough spring off to obtain a 2" lower ride height will result in a spring that is significantly shorter than the stock length, resulting in a situation where the spring will actually be loose on the spring perch when the suspension is fully extended. I can't say for sure that it is a problem on the 03 Cobra setup, but I have seen it many times on other vehicles. With the progressive rate spring, the "soft side" is completely compressed before all the weight is put on the spring, leaving just the "stiff side" to hold the weight of the car. At this point you basically have a linear rate spring holding the weight of the car. Now I'm not sure about you but I certainly wouldn't want a spring to pop off its mounting perch if I fully extended the suspension for whatever reason. The other reason that I prefer buying springs rather than cutting them is to get a stiffer spring rate. Like you said, there are some aftermarket springs that have a similar rate to that of the stock ones, but I have always lowered my cars as far as I can and still get around on the crappy roads around here. My experience is that cut prings are typically too soft for how low I want my car. This is personal preference, and again, just my opinion. I have ridden in many cars with the soft stock springs that are cut and even the smallest bump or heavy load in the trunk/multiple passengers causes the car to either hit or completely ride on the bump stops. Again, not what I want. Now if someone were to take two identical cars, install 2" lowering springs on one and cut the springs on the other, I would go out on a limb and say that the car with the aftermarket springs will handle better. It would probably be hard for the average person to notice just driving around town, but there will be a difference, especially if the cars were driven hard. Again, the 03 Cobra probably would have a less noticeable difference than most other cars, but thats not really my point.

These are the reasons that I don't like cut springs, not because I like having aftermarkets added to my mod list so people think I have "the best". I could care less about that. My opinion still stands that cutting springs is the ghetto way of lowering, but if it gets you want you want then that's fine, more power to you, but I certainly wouldn't call anyone a moron for simply explaining why they decided to cut rather than buy.
:beer:

 

[WhippleBlowJob]

First of all, I'm not a moron. I can however guarantee that I have installed more springs, and cut more springs than almost everyone on this site. I managed an automotive accessory shop for 8 years and also installed everything that we sold. In that time I put in probably 300 sets of springs and cut at least 100 sets on every type of car out there. This does by no means make me an expert on springs, but I can be pretty sure that I know a lot more than the average person. I appreciate you informing the people on this site who do not know the difference between progressive rate and linear rate springs, but unfortunitley for you, this moron does know the difference. I do not assume that just because I decided to buy aftermarket springs for my car, and some people chose to cut them that mine are automatically better. The reason most all aftermarket lowering springs are progressive rate is so they can maintian a similar to stock overall spring length, while still offering a lower ride hiehgt of say 2". Many cars, when cutting enough spring off to obtain a 2" lower ride height will result in a spring that is significantly shorter than the stock length, resulting in a situation where the spring will actually be loose on the spring perch when the suspension is fully extended. I can't say for sure that it is a problem on the 03 Cobra setup, but I have seen it many times on other vehicles. With the progressive rate spring, the "soft side" is completely compressed before all the weight is put on the spring, leaving just the "stiff side" to hold the weight of the car. At this point you basically have a linear rate spring holding the weight of the car. Now I'm not sure about you but I certainly wouldn't want a spring to pop off its mounting perch if I fully extended the suspension for whatever reason. The other reason that I prefer buying springs rather than cutting them is to get a stiffer spring rate. Like you said, there are some aftermarket springs that have a similar rate to that of the stock ones, but I have always lowered my cars as far as I can and still get around on the crappy roads around here. My experience is that cut prings are typically too soft for how low I want my car. This is personal preference, and again, just my opinion. I have ridden in many cars with the soft stock springs that are cut and even the smallest bump or heavy load in the trunk/multiple passengers causes the car to either hit or completely ride on the bump stops. Again, not what I want. Now if someone were to take two identical cars, install 2" lowering springs on one and cut the springs on the other, I would go out on a limb and say that the car with the aftermarket springs will handle better. It would probably be hard for the average person to notice just driving around town, but there will be a difference, especially if the cars were driven hard. Again, the 03 Cobra probably would have a less noticeable difference than most other cars, but thats not really my point.

These are the reasons that I don't like cut springs, not because I like having aftermarkets added to my mod list so people think I have "the best". I could care less about that. My opinion still stands that cutting springs is the ghetto way of lowering, but if it gets you want you want then that's fine, more power to you, but I certainly wouldn't call anyone a moron for simply explaining why they decided to cut rather than buy.
:beer:

Wow....i underestimated you. I half expected you to come back with "stfu douche....im right!" That was probably the best rebuttle i have yet heard on SVTP. Nice job man.

I dont doubt that you are experienced in the field. Sorry for calling you a moron. I am just used to that on this site. And i DO understand your point of view on the subject and agree to an extent.

All I was trying to illustrate is that for what MOST people on here use their "03 cobras" for you wouldnt really notice the difference. Now I know what you mean about bad roads. I live in Louisiana. Enough said. But I dont plan on jumping anything for get full spring extension to the point where they fall out of the bucket. At least i HOPE not.

But glad to know you are one of the few non-retards on here. Cheers. :beer:

PS...please use the Enter key more often.....lol

 

[03dsgsnake]

Anytime you are running a deep dish wheel, it will look a little smaller, especially in a 17". I think they look okay, but again, the fronts look bigger than the rear, and that is upsetting.

i agree! you would actually need a 18 deepdish back to even have a slight chance of matching a 17 front, id sell em sorry! Nice car otherwise:shrug:

 

[Pete's 03]

Wow....i underestimated you. I half expected you to come back with "stfu douche....im right!" That was probably the best rebuttle i have yet heard on SVTP. Nice job man.

I dont doubt that you are experienced in the field. Sorry for calling you a moron. I am just used to that on this site. And i DO understand your point of view on the subject and agree to an extent.

All I was trying to illustrate is that for what MOST people on here use their "03 cobras" for you wouldnt really notice the difference. Now I know what you mean about bad roads. I live in Louisiana. Enough said. But I dont plan on jumping anything for get full spring extension to the point where they fall out of the bucket. At least i HOPE not.

But glad to know you are one of the few non-retards on here. Cheers. :beer:

PS...please use the Enter key more often.....lol

It's cool man, I should have explained myself and my reasoning better in my original post. I guess that with the experience I have and seeing what can happen on certain vehicles I was surprised at how many people were spending a grip of cash on mods yet went the free route for lowering.

Prior to buying my Cobra 3+ years ago I was into imports. Aside from Hondas pretty much every other car that I owned or worked on had cone shaped ends on the springs so cutting was not an option, so when I started poking around here it just didn't make sense to me.

With how many people have done it and having yet to see anyone complain about any problems from it I realize that there isn't a problem with these cars.... Good to know.

There are a few of us here that aren't retards, sometimes it can take a few posts to really figure it out though LOL. How much did you end up cutting to get your car that low?? It looks about the same as mine so I'm just curious. Several months ago someone had posted that in an attempt to fix the dreaded wheel hop they removed the rear lowering springs they had, and installed some cut stockers. Apparently it helped a lot, and with the new tires that I just got the wheel hop is pretty bad again when I just roll on in first gear, and in second when the tires are either really cold or the pavement is wet.

"Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key...... I'll get there someday

:beer:

 

[WhippleBlowJob]

It's cool man, I should have explained myself and my reasoning better in my original post. I guess that with the experience I have and seeing what can happen on certain vehicles I was surprised at how many people were spending a grip of cash on mods yet went the free route for lowering.

Prior to buying my Cobra 3+ years ago I was into imports. Aside from Hondas pretty much every other car that I owned or worked on had cone shaped ends on the springs so cutting was not an option, so when I started poking around here it just didn't make sense to me.

With how many people have done it and having yet to see anyone complain about any problems from it I realize that there isn't a problem with these cars.... Good to know.

There are a few of us here that aren't retards, sometimes it can take a few posts to really figure it out though LOL. How much did you end up cutting to get your car that low?? It looks about the same as mine so I'm just curious. Several months ago someone had posted that in an attempt to fix the dreaded wheel hop they removed the rear lowering springs they had, and installed some cut stockers. Apparently it helped a lot, and with the new tires that I just got the wheel hop is pretty bad again when I just roll on in first gear, and in second when the tires are either really cold or the pavement is wet.

"Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key is my friend, "Enter" key...... I'll get there someday

:beer:

Hmm....I could not say for sure, but is SEEMS logical to assume that cut stockers in the rear would prevail in solving some wheel hop issues over aftermarkets is due to the fact of the stockers being linear rate as opposed to progressive rate.

As you know progressive rate lowering springs have a softer compression right off the bat therefore making them easier to compress (i.e. easier for the wheel to hop off the ground until the spring is compressed to a tension that it would push the wheel back onto the ground) where as a linear rate stock with 600lb/in rates will hold the wheel down better without having to be compressed to reach said tension. A progressive spring (now im pulling this number out of my ass) may only have 450lb/in tension with the car sitting at its set ride height. Know what I mean? So given those numbers, it would take 150lb/in MORE pressure to pick a wheel up off the pavement with a linear rate stock spring than an aftermarket. Does that make sense?

And yes....keep up the "The ENTER key is my friend" mantra....I believe in you! :beer:

 

[Pete's 03]

Hmm....I could not say for sure, but is SEEMS logical to assume that cut stockers in the rear would prevail in solving some wheel hop issues over aftermarkets is due to the fact of the stockers being linear rate as opposed to progressive rate.

As you know progressive rate lowering springs have a softer compression right off the bat therefore making them easier to compress (i.e. easier for the wheel to hop off the ground until the spring is compressed to a tension that it would push the wheel back onto the ground) where as a linear rate stock with 600lb/in rates will hold the wheel down better without having to be compressed to reach said tension. A progressive spring (now im pulling this number out of my ass) may only have 450lb/in tension with the car sitting at its set ride height. Know what I mean? So given those numbers, it would take 150lb/in MORE pressure to pick a wheel up off the pavement with a linear rate stock spring than an aftermarket. Does that make sense?

And yes....keep up the "The ENTER key is my friend" mantra....I believe in you! :beer:

Hmmmm. I was thinking the same thing. Maybe if I get bored one of these days I'll give it a try. I've messed with the springs/isos so many times trying to get the perfect ride height now I can swap the rears out in under 40 min.

 

[WhippleBlowJob]

Hmmmm. I was thinking the same thing. Maybe if I get bored one of these days I'll give it a try. I've messed with the springs/isos so many times trying to get the perfect ride height now I can swap the rears out in under 40 min.

Yea, if you have the stockers, give it a try. Mine are cut 1 full coil all the way around with no isolators. Just throw em in the back and see how it does. It wont get rid of wheelhop completely, but it may help.

 

[1992sc50]

To the OP im not feelin the DD cobra wheel. The spokes look too thin and just dont look right w/the stockers on the front.

whippleblowjob & petes 03...nice to see people here that can have a difference of opinion or misunderstanding and not freak out like most usually do on here. Good for you guys:beer:

 

[WhippleBlowJob]

whippleblowjob & petes 03...nice to see people here that can have a difference of opinion or misunderstanding and not freak out like most usually do on here. Good for you guys:beer:

No reason to freak out on someone who is obviously not a moron as I had initially suspected. :beer:

 

[WhippleBlowJob]

I will however admit that reading some members posts on here is like having a chainsaw enima.