PCV Pre- Filter from JLT, check it out.

[Pontisteve]

I actually had the exact same concern as the Romans guy does. With a system that drains the oil back into the valve cover, it would be very similar to not running a PCV at all. It might be counterproductive. I think it's a great idea, and I hope it's the next best thing since sliced bread. But after looking at the oil in my catch can, the last thing I would want to do is pour it back into my engine.

On a completely "unrelated to the product" note... I think it's really weak to beat up on a guy that introduced a new possibility into peoples heads. All racers should be questioning everything we do in our attempt to build a better mousetrap. And the guy was plenty polite about it. Why is it that tuner types think that they are above being questioned by an amateur? There should be some boundaries to this, but in my opinion the guy was well within them.

 

[Tucker]

On a completely "unrelated to the product" note... I think it's really weak to beat up on a guy that introduced a new possibility into peoples heads. All racers should be questioning everything we do in our attempt to build a better mousetrap. And the guy was plenty polite about it. Why is it that tuner types think that they are above being questioned by an amateur? There should be some boundaries to this, but in my opinion the guy was well within them.

Sir, I understand what your saying, but this is the 2nd thread tainted by Mr. Roman. That is why I seemed to "jump" right away.
BTW, I am no "tuner type" and learn everyday. So in most cases I'm the amateur here. I just don't think the whole picture is being read/understood here.
If this filter was like a oil or gas filter and blocking ALL oil/gases/contamanets then I'd say this is a logical concern. But it's not! It's a mesh filter that causes NO air restriction and ONLY grabs the large oil droplets, not the fine gases and contamanets. I've said from the begeining this is still allowing the PCV to funcution properly and will not block ALL oil from the intake.

Personally I see it like this. This is a thread letting the members here know about a new product from JLT. Some questions are understandable, but debate back and forth to ruin the thread is uncalled for. If Mr. Roman feels this is not a product for him, he is well within his right not to buy this product. If Mr. Roman feels this is not a good way to filter oil from the PCV system, he should "show" us why, not "tell" us his thinking on why. Case in point:

I had a pool store test my water and the lady said the stabalizer was too high, off her charts. She said to drain 2/3 of the pool and start over again. She also said it could cause CANCER! I freaked.
After calming down and going to my normal pool store I found out it's not as high as she "claimed" and not to worry. Her chart didn't read high enough.

What I'm saying is, when someone says "this is happening" when they truley don't know because they have never tested the product or can't properly, what they say can cause panic and have others over think.
I do not lay false claims on any product I have never seen or tested, it's just not right.

My apologies to all who have had to read this, my apologies to Mr. Roman for him thinking I was making this personal. I was not in my eyes. It's the internet, I would never let it get personal to me.

I will start a new thread in the vendor market section. I'm sure with as many of these going out everyday there will start to be some 3rd party results. Again, this is not meant to change the world or stop all the oil, but to help reduce the amount of oil getting in the intake.
Thanks to all who have been ordering everyday. :beer:

Jay

 

[HISSMAN]

Exactly. It is mostly the fumes and fine vapors that you want to pull out of the PCV system. This filter seems to allow all of that to pass through, but keep most of the solids (oil) from being sucked through. This is evident by the fact that an oil separator will still catch some oil. If it did not then I would be skeptical as to how well it works.

-Jeff

 

[cobraracer46]

Romans8:28 certainly has some valid points and it strikes me as odd that the vendor in question comes out with a child like response instead of offering engineering and testing data to verify that the product is sound. Ford and other manufacturers spend a significant amount of money and time engineering vehicle parts and I would be curious as to what kind of development program this product went through?

 

[forcefedcobra]

I would react in the same way considering the same thing went on over at Modularfords. Plus it has already been stated that Ford has used the same/similar device on other Ford vehicles just not ours.

 

[hmwave]

Doesn't the standard PCV system dump the very same acidic purge into the intake anyways?

I appreciate it's then consumed in combustion but what about chemical attack to the parts on the way into the cylinder?

 

[Tucker]

Some pics of it on the passanger side.
If fit just fine and even worked with the stock hose. A small clamp or zip tie would make it perfect.
We will include the 90 degree fitting with all orders or 2 or all sepcial requests for one.
BTW, there is black tape on the hose because I had cut it in half a while back. It's taped up as it would be stock.
Jay

 

[Pontisteve]

Sir, I understand what your saying, but this is the 2nd thread tainted by Mr. Roman. That is why I seemed to "jump" right away.
BTW, I am no "tuner type" and learn everyday. So in most cases I'm the amateur here. I just don't think the whole picture is being read/understood here.
If this filter was like a oil or gas filter and blocking ALL oil/gases/contamanets then I'd say this is a logical concern. But it's not! It's a mesh filter that causes NO air restriction and ONLY grabs the large oil droplets, not the fine gases and contamanets. I've said from the begeining this is still allowing the PCV to funcution properly and will not block ALL oil from the intake.

Personally I see it like this. This is a thread letting the members here know about a new product from JLT. Some questions are understandable, but debate back and forth to ruin the thread is uncalled for. If Mr. Roman feels this is not a product for him, he is well within his right not to buy this product. If Mr. Roman feels this is not a good way to filter oil from the PCV system, he should "show" us why, not "tell" us his thinking on why. Case in point:

I had a pool store test my water and the lady said the stabalizer was too high, off her charts. She said to drain 2/3 of the pool and start over again. She also said it could cause CANCER! I freaked.
After calming down and going to my normal pool store I found out it's not as high as she "claimed" and not to worry. Her chart didn't read high enough.

What I'm saying is, when someone says "this is happening" when they truley don't know because they have never tested the product or can't properly, what they say can cause panic and have others over think.
I do not lay false claims on any product I have never seen or tested, it's just not right.

My apologies to all who have had to read this, my apologies to Mr. Roman for him thinking I was making this personal. I was not in my eyes. It's the internet, I would never let it get personal to me.

I will start a new thread in the vendor market section. I'm sure with as many of these going out everyday there will start to be some 3rd party results. Again, this is not meant to change the world or stop all the oil, but to help reduce the amount of oil getting in the intake.
Thanks to all who have been ordering everyday. :beer:

Jay

Thanks Jay for the cool response. After reading all of this stuff, I decided to look further into it. First, I found that this type of filter has been used in OEM stuff for a while. I was working on a 98 Escort the other day that had one too. Second, my big concern was putting that crappy oil back into the motor. But that's pretty much how many of them do it, including the OEM Ford and also some Moroso stuff. Their old fashioned valve cover breathers do the same thing, if it's the ones hooked up to intake vacuum. I suppose the greater concern than the oil re-entering the engine is probably whether or not the air moves freely thru the thing and into the intake.

So long as this thing doesn't restrict airflow, it should be fine. I would think putting an oil separator like the Campbell Hausfield one inline between it and the intake would be an even better idea.

Jay, can you tell me what this thing looks like internally? I'm sort of guessing it has the stock Ford filter guts in an aluminum casing that you make? Also, I have a 97 Cobra, which has a push-in PCV valve. Do I need to buy an 03 Cobra PCV grommet to make your product work? Will that grommet even fit a 97 Cobra valve cover?

One more thought... during cruise and idle, vacuum sucks the pcv vapors thru the JLT device, thru the oil separator (if equipped), and into the intake manifold. But... during WOT, the boost from the intake would turn around flow and push backwards into the Oil Separator, and also into the JLT device. The stock PCV valve is pretty much a one-way valve that would resist this. But does the JLT device have any type of one-way valve built in?? Or can you use a PCV valve in the top of it? And how much are they again?

Thanks!

 

[Tucker]

Thanks Jay for the cool response. After reading all of this stuff, I decided to look further into it. First, I found that this type of filter has been used in OEM stuff for a while. I was working on a 98 Escort the other day that had one too. Second, my big concern was putting that crappy oil back into the motor. But that's pretty much how many of them do it, including the OEM Ford and also some Moroso stuff. Their old fashioned valve cover breathers do the same thing, if it's the ones hooked up to intake vacuum. I suppose the greater concern than the oil re-entering the engine is probably whether or not the air moves freely thru the thing and into the intake.

So long as this thing doesn't restrict airflow, it should be fine. I would think putting an oil separator like the Campbell Hausfield one inline between it and the intake would be an even better idea.

Jay, can you tell me what this thing looks like internally? I'm sort of guessing it has the stock Ford filter guts in an aluminum casing that you make? Also, I have a 97 Cobra, which has a push-in PCV valve. Do I need to buy an 03 Cobra PCV grommet to make your product work? Will that grommet even fit a 97 Cobra valve cover?

One more thought... during cruise and idle, vacuum sucks the pcv vapors thru the JLT device, thru the oil separator (if equipped), and into the intake manifold. But... during WOT, the boost from the intake would turn around flow and push backwards into the Oil Separator, and also into the JLT device. The stock PCV valve is pretty much a one-way valve that would resist this. But does the JLT device have any type of one-way valve built in?? Or can you use a PCV valve in the top of it? And how much are they again?

Thanks!

Steve, it's the simple FORD filter you saw on the Escort. That's it, no valve. It's only job is to collect oil and this will flow both ways and not restrict the PCV valves job in anyway. It's a piggy back set up that the valve sits in as if it were the valve cover itself.
It will work on the 96-98 Cobras as well.

Thanks for your comments and interest.

Jay

 

[03yellow]

My thoughts on your 1st question:
The reason I'm pulling oil is the increase in boost ,16lbs(i.e. pullies) thus intake volume. Even with the pre filters my pullied cobra is still pulling more air through the PVC system when under boost.
Also, I just got my filters...you can simply blow air thru them; there is no resistance.

I'm not sure about the second issue. Most of the contamination is due to moisture, thus, I want to keep my system ventilated (I’m not a big fan of my current passenger side breather system). I will use 2 of these filters plus my catch on the driver’s side; I hope its the best of both worlds.

I am going to be as honest and straightforward as I know how to be…….

At this point I am losing my patience with your behavior, first at ModularFords and now here. I did not quote “follow you around the boards like a lost puppy”….. I post here often and read this forum daily. Since the moderators at Modularfords choose to stifle any perceived “negative” discussion about the new oil separator I posted here. My previous post in this thread contains nothing more than a legitimate question and the basis for it.

Let the record both here and at modularfords clearly demonstrate that it is you who have “issues” and have gone out of your way to insult me, patronize me, and address me in condescending and derogatory terms. YOU chose to attack me now in this thread and employee the exact behavior I just outlined. I did not mention you, question your integrity, your intelligence, in this thread, nor did I at ModularFords. I have not insulted you in any way, nor have I insulted or even been critical the product. In all sincerity it looks very promising and may in fact be an excellent idea, but I did/do have personal concerns/questions that I sought answers for. Instead of addressing them, you implied that my motive was to attack your product. You made all manner of ridiculous assumptions about my motives, my character, and my intentions (going so far as to bring up how many “posts I had there” as if that has anything to do with the subject).Let the record also state that after you slandered me at ModularFord and contradicted yourself YOU had the moderator “clean-up” (edit) the thread to remove your childish behavior and incorrect/misleading words. I will gladly post the contents of the moderators email to me outlining your request, in the event anyone cares to question my truthfulness

All I did at the modular Ford forum was ask a question about the consequences of returning contaminated oil to the crankcase, instead of emptying the contents of a catch can to an external container/trash. Instead of you answering/addressing the concern you first said that the oil that collects in your product is not contaminated (which is simply wrong), later when I pushed the point you back-tracked and implied that while the oil draining back may be "dirty" it would not be sufficient to damage the engine, especially if people did frequent oil changes.

In that thread (before you had the moderator edit it), I outlined in detail the basis of my concern and suggested that the oil should be tested after the extended use of this product to verify the assumption that returning to the crankcase would in fact not significantly degrade the remaining motor oil. It is established fact that the contents trapped in a “conventional” catch can is highly contaminated by volatile and nonvolatile hydrocarbons, and water and is highly acidic (you can simply smell the contents and quickly realize how much gasoline is present)

I question the wisdom of intentionally returning this contaminated, acidic mixture to the crankcase. I do not question the wisdom of using conventional catch-cans and have run them on every FI car I have ever owned. Just because Ford (or insert other manufacturer) utilized baffles, meshes, etc in a given PCV system does not mean that it was the best thing to do or would have universal application in every situation. For example were the oil laden vapor is allowed to condense and or where the “heavy oil” is separated (internal verses external) to the engine can dramatically affect the resultant level of contamination and dramatically affect the flow characteristics of the PCV system.

In addition to the concern about returning contaminated oil to the engine, one must consider the affects that the introduction of any filter, mesh, etc has on the flow characteristics of the PCV system (both at high and low engine loads). The operation of the PCV system on the 03/04 Cobra may or may not be impeded by your product, but without carefully developed and implemented flow tests under varying conditions it is only guesswork as to whether or not the PCV system can still maintain crankcase pressure at design levels. Any obstruction placed into the PCV system MUST be considered/evaluated to ensure that the pressure drop created by said device does not hinder the operation of the system.

Perhaps as a vendor, you could chose to conduct the testing that would demonstrate that the product is safe and effective (long term) before bringing it to market, instead of choosing to demean a potential customer with legitimate concerns and questions.

So two questions remain……..

1. Does the introduction of the “mesh filter” impede PCV system operation under varying engine conditions/demands?
2. Does the continual re-introduction of contaminate laden condensed oil vapor into the crankcase foul and reduce the pH of the engine oil beyond acceptable limits within a 3000K-5000K oil change interval?


Answer those two questions with the facts to back it up an I will even buy one (heck maybe two or three)

 

[indycobra]

Just got both of my filters today Jay. They look great and fit perfectly. Much better than the catch can setup I was running. Thanks for a great product!

 

[evans03c]

Great Jay, now I have to rethink my whole plan! I just bought a 7 in. tall, $75 filter out of McMaster-Carr and now I see this.
Sorry to drudge this up again but someone please explain to me how oil vapors can get contaminated when they enter an aluminum housing (through a filter no less) and then drain back into the engine. The oil is going from a closed system to a closed system. It's not like it's going into a filthy environment and then back to the engine. ok, so when the oil comes into Jay's separator it goes through a filter. Then, when it drains back I guess it reverses itself and puts back anything the filter picked up into the engine. I'm sorry, someone tell me I'm wrong, the oil is never leaving a closed system. Did everyone forget that we do have a big cylindrical thing that we replace every 3K or so miles and it's sole purpose is to filter our oil.

 

[Pontisteve]

The concern stems from the fact that it's not really oil that is going up into the pcv valve. It's crankcase vapors (that are ladened with oil). Sort of like moisture in the air as an example... we're sucking the air into the intake thru the pcv valve, but the oil is somewhat caught in it. Oil alone would not be a bad thing, as like you said it can just go back to the engine from which it came. But crankcase vapors may be a little more than that. The crankcase is full of contaminants from the combustion process, such as excess fuel and exhaust. Whatever can blow by the rings. That stuff is not so good, and is the very reason why we have a pcv valve in the first place. With some sort of blower or turbo, the problem is magnified because we have twice as much pressure in the cylinder. That adds up to twice as much crap getting by the rings. All that cylinder pressure has only the rings to keep it on the top side of the piston, and rings are not a perfect seal.

Just how critical is it? Tough to say, but the factory does filter it out for a reason. It simply burns it up by sucking it back into the intake. We don't want to do that as racers, because we don't want that oil in the intake for other reasons, such as detonation, that the factory didn't really have to worry about since they weren't supercharged.

One could also argue that the crap goes into jays filter, and gets entangled there, and can't get back to the valve cover area anyway. I would buy into that some. On a car like your 03 Cobra, where you have a real mess on your hands if oil gets into the intercooler (which it does on those cars), a racer might just say that having one of the JLT filters is the lesser of two evils. I would buy that one too.

In my humble opinion, the best method would be to run a large catch can, and get rid of the contaminated oil. That certainly can't hurt, even if some consider it unnecessary (if you use the JLT filter instead). I ran a Campbell Hausfield type little oil seperator on my 97 Vobra, and was disappointed to see that it doesn't cut the mustard. It's simply too small of a unit (the $20 one). There are bigger ones, but they are bulky and more expensive. You might as well buy a real catch can at that point. I was somewhat skeptical at first of Jay's design, because I didn't like the idea that the oil returned to the valve cover. But in the end, I think that the worry was overkill. I ordered my JLT filter earlier this week, and am happy to say that Jay appears to have shipped it the next day. I haven't actually checked to see if I got it yet, but it looks like he's on top of things in the shipping department. I'll post back later how I actually like it.

 

[Tucker]

I think once you see the filter you will understand the workings and how the PCV workings are not inturupted.

Again, this is a Ford Motorcraft filter used to reduce the oil going through the PCV / Intake system for the last 20 years. We simply made a housing so we could use it on this application.

Thanks for your orders.

Jay

 

[evans03c]

I just tried blowing in one side of my new general purpose separator that I bought. It takes quite a bit of pressure to move air through it. I take it this is bad since it is restricting the PCV? Looks like I may be going with Jay's unit.

 

[Tucker]

I just tried blowing in one side of my new general purpose separator that I bought. It takes quite a bit of pressure to move air through it. I take it this is bad since it is restricting the PCV? Looks like I may be going with Jay's unit.

That's good to know.

I'd feel worse with that leaving contaminates in my oil in that case.

Jay

 

[SnakeBit]

Let's suppose that the vapor contaminates the oil suspended in droplets. I can't believe that every bit of that contaminated vapor is sucked out of the valve covers and burned in the next cycle. Some of that contaminated vapor clings to the metal parts inside of the valve cover, then recondensates and drips back to the pan. So any oil caught by this filter is no more contaminated than the oil vapor which doesn't ever make it out of the valve cover. So how is this filter contaminating the oil in the pan more than the oil vapor which will naturally drip back into the pan?

And consider that the flow through the passenger side tube can go both ways depending on vacuum or positive blower pressure. What about that oil?

IMO, this filter does not contaminate the oil in the pan any more or any less than the factory setup. If you're that concerned, then run frequent oil analysis' and check the contamination level. Better yet, run several analysis with the stock setup, then do it again with Jay's filter in place. I'm willing to bet that the only thing which changes is the amount of oil in the pan (Stock setup will slowly lower the amount of oil in the pan as it burns up, while Jay's filter will keep that oil level more constant since it condenses the vapor and allows it to drain back down to the pan). Personally, I think there will be more engine damage coming from low oil levels, and isn't the dammage the real reason any of us are considering this filter?
op:

 

[03yellow]

Dont dump your catch setup.

Ive been running the pre- filter along with my catch for 2 months now. Im not sure the filters help much at all. I'm sure I'll take a beating for posting this but they really dont work.

PS. I removed my breather filter from the passenger side valve cover. Im using one of the pre-filters on my passenger side now and my car started smoking again.

Just got both of my filters today Jay. They look great and fit perfectly. Much better than the catch can setup I was running. Thanks for a great product!

 

[MikeW]

Who is running one of these on both sides now? I will ditch my "steeda type" and get two of these if it works on both sides.


Thanks,
Mike

 

[Tucker]

Dont dump your catch setup.

Ive been running the pre- filter along with my catch for 2 months now. Im not sure the filters help much at all. I'm sure I'll take a beating for posting this but they really dont work.

PS. I removed my breather filter from the passenger side valve cover. Im using one of the pre-filters on my passenger side now and my car started smoking again.

It's not about taking a beating, it's about all the info.

Stating "they really dont work" because you have smoke is not a fair statement.
Showing how you tested the product with a sererator and the same amount of oil is coming in, then that's documanted proof.

Everyone who has run these with a seperator to "see" the proof has reported back that little or no oil is presant in the tank. Which is what we report.

Your car has miles on it and oil is all over the intercooler, intake, TB, Plenum, rotors and so on. Putting the Pre-Filter WILL NOT clean these parts and stop smoke at start up.
What it WILL do is reduce the amount of oil getting into the intake system through the PCV system.

Running a breather before made it so NO oil was getting into the intake system, so if your blow by is greater then others it just vented into the air and the breather element. Now with the PCV hooked back up and the Pre-Filter doing it's job, it is still filtering 90% of your oil. Your smoke can still be there from the small amount still getting by.

Just to prove me wrong, take off the Pre-Filter and run a seperator to see how much oil you get after 50 miles.
Then put the Pre-Filter on WITH the seperator still there and report the amount of oil after 50 more miles.

I know the answer, but this is best coming from the customer.

Again, this is not a beating session, but a plee to give a product a complete test before you dissmiss it in open forum. This is not alot to ask.

Thanks:beer:
Jay