Project Icey Reservoir-*WARNING* Lots of DATA

oilwell1415

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I've been lurking on here for a while, but haven't jumped into the fray until now. I'll chime in on this since I've had an AC cooler on my truck for about 4 or 5 years. My setup isn't nearly as complex or efficient as this one, but it will give you an idea of what to expect. I'll also throw out what I have been planning to do that will work just as well as the cooler in this thread, but be nearly free and not require tapping into the stock AC system.

The first thing I'll talk about is track and dyno results since that is what everyone wants to know. IIRC, on the dyno I saw a gain of 2 rwhp with my setup, which isn't even enough to qualify as a measured gain. However, I was able to make several runs without power dropping off which I could not do before. These results were mirrored on the track. I made 5 passes back to back without the cooler on and then 5 passes with it on. Without the cooler I lost a tenth or two on each of the first three passes before bottoming out. I don't remember what the times were, but I believe it dropped from around 13.60 to about 14.1 over the 5 passes. I do remember that I ran within a tenth of 13.7 on each of the passes with the cooler on. It absolutely does something, the only question is how much. BTW, it was between 90 and 95 degrees when I did the test.

As for running the AC at the track, they will probably throw a fit. They did for me. Unfortunately, the condensation that your AC generates is at its peak at the same time you need you AC cooler working the most. When running at capacity, the AC will run an almost steady stream of water onto the track. It is considerably more than someone tracking water to the line on their tires from driving through the water.

Another benefit of this system is that the load of the AC will soften the throttle response at the starting line. If you have a high powered vehicle with poor traction that can make driving a lot easier. The AC will cut off when you hit WOT, so it won't cost you power down track.

The compressor won't know the difference bewteen the stock system and this. It is the same compressor used in the Expidition which is available with dual AC systems. It won't see any more load in this application than it does in the Expy. This is a non issue.

Why would you need a refrigerant capable of handling higher heat? In the heat of summer it is not uncommon for r-134a to operate in excess of 400 psi. It's not good when it happens, but it does. A quick and dirty application of the ideal gas law will show you that the temp of the refrigerant as a superheated vapor at 400 psi wil be much higher than it will ever be in the induction tract of the engine. Even in an adiabatic compression it would probably be close to 200 degrees. Throw in a little inefficiency and 300-400 degrees isn't unreasonable.

On a road course I doubt you would get much performance benefit from this, but you would give yourself a little insurance against detonation. My AC blows nice and cold on the track, so it would definitely do enough to keep the IC chilled.

If you want to experiment with this on your own without dumping several hundred bucks into it there is a much easier way. All you have to do is reroute your IC hoses through the heater core and turn you HVAC controls to defrost. The compressor runs in defrost mode, so the AC system is providing cold air. When the air comes into the cab in defrost mode it goes over the evaporator first and is chilled. If then flows over the heater core, so you are blowing 25-30 degree air over a fairly efficient heat exchanger that has your IC fluid in it. If you are really ambitious you could even plum the heater control valve from an Explorer into the system so your heater and IC would function normally when not under boost.

Edit to add:
You can handle 134a legally yourself unless there is a local law against it. As far as the feds are concerned any shmuck off the street can by 134a, walk out in the parking lot and vent it to the atmosphere. You only have to be licensed to handle 134a if you are doing it for hire.
 
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BlackBolt9

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I would have to agree that I don't think this would work very well for road racing. If you are driving hard then the only time you aren't at WOT is when you are on the brakes or feathering the throttle out of a corner. So I agree that the most you see the motor not at WOT is 5-7 seconds. As a point of refernce to that, I filled my tank and reset my tripometer one morning drove the 5 miles back to the road course, drove on the track all day (about 2 hours of on track time) then drove 5 miles back to the gas station, filled up (I went through a full tank in 2 hours of drive time) and checked my trip, average on track of 6mpg, if that doesn't tell you how much road course cars see WOT I don't know what will.
 
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ecoastkid

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Isn't the compresser and any other parts of the a/c the same as any other f150 that has a much larger cabin?...I would think it has ALOT of spare capacity.
 

Fade 2 Black

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A simple tune adjustment can easily change the point at which the compressor is turned off, or it could be set to never turn off for WOT, it's up to the user. This can only be done via custom tuning however, a handheld won't allow one to make said changes.

For road racing you could have the compressor set to disable much closer to WOT than normal as well as set the time it's disabled lower, instead of 15 seconds like mine is now, down to zero so as soon as you drop below the throttle setting the a/c comes right back on. Conversely, setting it to remain on and doing comparative lap times would net tangable results as to the validity of parasitic loss and the cooling effect of the IR compared to no a/c and no cooling.

As for the compressor debate I'll do some testing with my a/c over the next couple of days showing the actual air temps coming out of the vents for all to see.
 
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BlackBolt9

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Fade 2 Black said:
A simple tune adjustment can easily change the point at which the compressor is turned off, or it could be set to never turn off for WOT, it's up to the user. This can only be done via custom tuning however, a handheld won't allow one to make said changes.

For road racing you could have the compressor set to disable much closer to WOT than normal as well as set the time it's disabled lower, instead of 15 seconds like mine is now, down to zero so as soon as you drop below the throttle setting the a/c comes right back on. Conversely, setting it to remain on and doing comparative lap times would net tangable results as to the validity of parasitic loss and the cooling effect of the IR compared to no a/c and no cooling.

As for the compressor debate I'll do some testing with my a/c over the next couple of days showing the actual air temps coming out of the vents for all to see.
I'm in the minority here by leaving my engine stock so far which means I would have to go to even greater expense of buying a tuner to reap the "possible" benefits
 

BlackBolt9

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Fade 2 Black said:
I haven't reaearched it but I'd imagine a simple toggle switch could be used to run the a/c all the time like the i/c pump setups.

Possibly, I'll have to look through the wiring diagrams this weekend. :thumbsup:
 

bamaRed

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this looks like a nice product, but with the drag from the A/C being on, and the air temp differance, we would have to see a dyno comparison to see if it really made HP.
heat soak sux, and this looks like it contains the heat very well, but than again, we need to see the dyno comparision to varify the HP.
my worry is that the cost for the system, compared to the gain in HP.
will need to see some dyno results in the future. thanks

and yes, i understand, the ac will be off at WOT, or tuned for user, but, is this mostly for track use or practical driving in the city, cause i dont hit WOT in the city so the ac would be on any ways.

i personaly think this mod would be mostly used to prevent detnation and maby a little gain at normal driving. but besides that, if the ac kicks off at WOT, than the air temp would rise even with this kit, do to the ac being off.
and if the ac was programed to stay on, than the para. drag from the a/c would almost off balance the differance of gain compared to drag.


please correct me if im wrong. thanks
 
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Fade 2 Black

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Just wanted to give an update on this. My testing was unavoidably delayed for over three weeks and I just resumed. I've been adjusting the freon level (low pressure reading) in attempts to find the sweet spot between IC temps and cabin air temps. With lower freon the cabin air would only go down to ~84* while parked and not much better while moving slow. Increasing the level slightly yesterday garnered much better cabin air temps, around 72* IIRC and I'm going to continue to fine tune things in the near future.

I also discovered an issue with my I/C system where the fluid wasn't circulating which I don't feel is in any way related to the IR. I drained the entire system and checked the pump's operation and blew out all the lines and it seems to work fine now. I found no debris or anything to indicate the cause however. :shrug: I may have toasted a plug as a result of the fluid not circulating so I have to check those as well Friday when I'm off again. Yay. :bored:

Once I get it all straight again I'll do some more datalogging and post the info about the freon for those who are going to get one of these IR systems.
 

ecoastkid

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oilwell1415 said:
If you want to experiment with this on your own without dumping several hundred bucks into it there is a much easier way. All you have to do is reroute your IC hoses through the heater core and turn you HVAC controls to defrost. The compressor runs in defrost mode, so the AC system is providing cold air. When the air comes into the cab in defrost mode it goes over the evaporator first and is chilled. If then flows over the heater core, so you are blowing 25-30 degree air over a fairly efficient heat exchanger that has your IC fluid in it. If you are really ambitious you could even plum the heater control valve from an Explorer into the system so your heater and IC would function normally when not under boost.


Anyone try this yet?...seems like a resonably good idea...I think I might try it but I would want a way to shut it off. other wise I would have a ton of heat coming into the truck...
 

Fade 2 Black

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You could PM the original poster and/or start another thread if you like as it seems viable. Please keep posts in this thread relative to the IR. :beer:
 

1fsthd

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fade have you tried covering the heat exchanger with card board or something to see if it helps cool the it2s down any further? What is the MAIN differiance between this and the KC? They both seem to be doing the same thing but they said that the kc was taking 130* temp to like 85*. I like this set up as to not having several part all over the place. Does this do more for the KB or eaton as for as keeping it cooler? Let us know what happens. Thanks
 

Fade 2 Black

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SORRY FOR ALL CAPS. I HAVEN'T DONE SO YET. I PLAN TO THIS WEEKEND/FIRST OF NEXT WEEK ALONG WITH ADJUSTING THE FREON LEVELS AS I SAID PREVIOUS. THIS WILL WORK EQUALLY WELL NO MATTER WHAT BLOWER IS USED. I WILL HAVE MY TESTING FINALIZED SOON AND UPDATES POSTED. :beer:
 

Fade 2 Black

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The only info about the KC I know is what I've read. I don't really want to speculate about it. If you want to compare the two or gain info on the KC itself, please start another thread so as not to dilute this ones intended focus.

:thumbsup:

*EDIT* Mobile is where RWTD is located so I'm sure you could go by and speak with James and get as much info on his setup as you could stand.
 
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