Supercharger time

[DG_]

Tax refund should be coming in soon and it'll be spend on a S/C for my 5.0. I have been doing some research and I think for me, the Paxton kit will be the way to go. This is my DD for now and the centris seem to put the least strain on the engine since boost gets build high in the rpm range. My goal is to be right around 600 rwhp and to have the least mods installed to reach it.

The questions I have are:
1. Besides the S/C kit, what else would I need to get to 600 rwhp? (Intake, exhaust, TB, IM, etc...)
2. What can I expect to spend on the kit?
3. Does the stock clutch hold up to that power? How about the stock trans?
4. How invasive in the install? Is a lot of cutting required?
5. I understand that there is no magic # at which the engine will just call quits. However, it seems low 600s rwhp is right around there, correct?

Thanks!

 

[jayman33]

Beefcake really has a handle on the Paxton kits, he'll set you up nicely. If you want an intake manifold I'd say go for it, a TB is unnecessary and the CAI may also be a decent upgrade.

 

[Nocturnal5.0]

Tax refund should be coming in soon and it'll be spend on a S/C for my 5.0. I have been doing some research and I think for me, the Paxton kit will be the way to go. This is my DD for now and the centris seem to put the least strain on the engine since boost gets build high in the rpm range. My goal is to be right around 600 rwhp and to have the least mods installed to reach it.

The questions I have are:
1. Besides the S/C kit, what else would I need to get to 600 rwhp? (Intake, exhaust, TB, IM, etc...)
2. What can I expect to spend on the kit?
3. Does the stock clutch hold up to that power? How about the stock trans?
4. How invasive in the install? Is a lot of cutting required?
5. I understand that there is no magic # at which the engine will just call quits. However, it seems low 600s rwhp is right around there, correct?

Thanks!

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...476-2012-coyote-paxton-install-pic-heavy.html

I recently installed a Paxton 2200SL Beefcake special on my 2012 M6, and this is a link to my install thread. It should give you a fairly decent idea of what you'll face with the installation.

My car should be right around 600 SAE WHP on the base 3.8" pulley using 47 lb/hr injectors, the JLT open element filter and Lethal Performance O/R H pipe, and I'm getting dynoed later this week to put up some numbers, also I'm AED tuned.

As for the stock motor, clutch etc, I have had zero problems thus far (been installed for only three months now though, so we'll see once it gets to see the track this summer). Being that you are in Texas, though, you'll want the ID1000's and possibly a boost-a-pump to ensure you're getting the complete amount of fuel needed, as I ran out of fuel at 4400' elevation on the 47's at 6900 rpms.

No one can really say for sure when your particular driveline pieces will fail, most of that will be up to who tunes your car and how you drive it on a day-to-day basis, but 600 wheel with a reputable tuner on 93 octane shouldn't be a problem. Hope this helps!

 

[pohnjarker]

The questions I have are:
1. Besides the S/C kit, what else would I need to get to 600 rwhp? (Intake, exhaust, TB, IM, etc...)
you dont need anything else, just get a smaller pulley and you're good.

2. What can I expect to spend on the kit?
cheapest ive seen is the Paxton from Beefcake or you can go up in price with a Roush, KB, Magnacharger, Edelbrock, Whipple, ProCharger...many possibilities. all can reach 600hp.

3. Does the stock clutch hold up to that power? How about the stock trans?
like anything, either can go at anytime but there are many on here that are running stock clutch and trans with no issues. the tune seems to be the most important aspect.

4. How invasive in the install? Is a lot of cutting required?
Procharger has the least amount of cutting, i believe. Paxton you have to cut the bumper, fan shroud, and lower plastic skid plate, Roush you have to grind/cut off some nubs(forget the technical name) off of the front of the engine.

5. I understand that there is no magic # at which the engine will just call quits. However, it seems low 600s rwhp is right around there, correct?
most say around 650rwhp is "safe" but some are running close to 700 and a bit over with no issues....only time will tell at that power. most will say it is stupid to run that high on stock internals but to each his own.

Thanks!

do a search on each type you are looking at, there seems to be a write up on each brand you are contemplating.

ETA: i have the Paxton, ID1000s, Vortech BAP, JLT intake and a 3.33" pulley...i should be pushing close to 650, if not a bit more...i'll find out in May when i dyno it.

 

[NoVA_Mike]

I went with a Roush setup tuned by VMP. With an 82mm or 79mm pulley you'll be just at 600rwhp.

On a stock GT motor I figure I'm playing it safe with below 600rwhp. I've been running this for 10 months and 12K miles and not a hiccup yet. If I hear about guys failing I'll adjust my setup accordingly before I get to their mileage.

 

[92hatchlx]

You don't need a pulley OP. A good tuner and injectors will get you 600 SAE at the wheels.

 

[DG_]

Thanks for all the replies!

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...476-2012-coyote-paxton-install-pic-heavy.html

I recently installed a Paxton 2200SL Beefcake special on my 2012 M6, and this is a link to my install thread. It should give you a fairly decent idea of what you'll face with the installation.

My car should be right around 600 SAE WHP on the base 3.8" pulley using 47 lb/hr injectors, the JLT open element filter and Lethal Performance O/R H pipe, and I'm getting dynoed later this week to put up some numbers, also I'm AED tuned.

As for the stock motor, clutch etc, I have had zero problems thus far (been installed for only three months now though, so we'll see once it gets to see the track this summer). Being that you are in Texas, though, you'll want the ID1000's and possibly a boost-a-pump to ensure you're getting the complete amount of fuel needed, as I ran out of fuel at 4400' elevation on the 47's at 6900 rpms.

No one can really say for sure when your particular driveline pieces will fail, most of that will be up to who tunes your car and how you drive it on a day-to-day basis, but 600 wheel with a reputable tuner on 93 octane shouldn't be a problem. Hope this helps!

Very informative post and link!
Looks like there is quite a bit of cutting involved. Is everything reversable, if you ever choose to go back to stock?
Also is there a reason that you didn't have a local shop tune your car? How do you have a remote tuner company tune your car; on a dyno or street?

do a search on each type you are looking at, there seems to be a write up on each brand you are contemplating.

ETA: i have the Paxton, ID1000s, Vortech BAP, JLT intake and a 3.33" pulley...i should be pushing close to 650, if not a bit more...i'll find out in May when i dyno it.

Nice numbers!
I wasn't aware that the Procharger has a less intrusive install than the Paxton. What's the reason you went with the Procharger?

 

[DG_]

You don't need a pulley OP. A good tuner and injectors will get you 600 SAE at the wheels.

On the subject of tuners. Do you recommend using one of the reputable online tuners or rather find a local shop?

 

[DG_]

Btw... do I have to have a certain # of posts before I can send PMs?

 

[Nocturnal5.0]

Thanks for all the replies!


Very informative post and link!
Looks like there is quite a bit of cutting involved. Is everything reversable, if you ever choose to go back to stock?
Also is there a reason that you didn't have a local shop tune your car? How do you have a remote tuner company tune your car; on a dyno or street?



Nice numbers!
I wasn't aware that the Procharger has a less intrusive install than the Paxton. What's the reason you went with the Procharger?

It's not reversable per-say. The things you cut won't interfere with your motor running if you went back to stock, but the bumper would still be trimmed, as well at the fan shroud, upper radiator hose, engine cover etc.

As for the tuning, I would highly recommend using Shaun at AED, but it's up to you and your budget for exactly who you want to use. I'd never use a local shop that doesn't specialize in the copperhead ECU to tune the car, it is a very advanced system and could easily be screwed up by someone who hasn't had experience with it. I was lucky with Shaun, and was one of the last few to recieve a tune using street logging, but he will only tune forced induction cars on a dyno now, but he will still do the remote tuning on a dyno of your choice, and it is all very easy to log the runs and send him the files to revise.

Part of the reason the Procharger isn't as intrusive in its install is due to its positioning in the engine bay and the way the intercooler pipes run into and out of the bumper. However, the actual intercooler core is smaller than the Paxton unit, and, for the power level I will eventually be running the car at (700+) I wanted the better efficiency of the 3 core Paxton intercooler. Also, the Procharger requires you to change the crank pulley on the motor to add an extra accecessory drive for the blower pulley, which can add excess strain to the end of the crankshaft, which was just a personal preferance on my part. In addition to those reasons, it also pulls its air in from right above the driver's side exhaust manifold, and well, I didn't really want that either haha.

On the subject of tuners. Do you recommend using one of the reputable online tuners or rather find a local shop?

Again, definitely find a reputable tuner online, I recommend AED, but I'm biased ;-)

 

[burke985]

i dont think shaun sends email tunes any more for superchargers , i think you have to physically bring it to him or have it remote tuned at a shop...i could be wrong though

 

[92hatchlx]

On the subject of tuners. Do you recommend using one of the reputable online tuners or rather find a local shop?

See if you can enable PMs or something in your user CP.

 

[Nocturnal5.0]

i dont think shaun sends email tunes any more for superchargers , i think you have to physically bring it to him or have it remote tuned at a shop...i could be wrong though

Unless it changed again, he said he won't do the tuning on the street (partially because me and others were having tractions issues, causing the logs to spike, and it not being safe for most people to do pulls to the top of 4th gear because, well, it's illegal and unsafe lol) but will still schedule dyno time for him to be waiting on your logs for a period of time in his shop while you have it dynoed where ever you like and send him the logs after each pull. It only took me 5 - 6 revisions to get dialed in, and I will confirm it again when I hop on a dyno next week, just to be sure.

But I could be wrong, this was just the last thing I heard.

 

[burke985]

Unless it changed again, he said he won't do the tuning on the street (partially because me and others were having tractions issues, causing the logs to spike, and it not being safe for most people to do pulls to the top of 4th gear because, well, it's illegal and unsafe lol) but will still schedule dyno time for him to be waiting on your logs for a period of time in his shop while you have it dynoed where ever you like and send him the logs after each pull. It only took me 5 - 6 revisions to get dialed in, and I will confirm it again when I hop on a dyno next week, just to be sure.

But I could be wrong, this was just the last thing I heard.

Makes sense

 

[pohnjarker]

You don't need a pulley OP. A good tuner and injectors will get you 600 SAE at the wheels.

do you have a dyno sheet showing 600 to the wheels with your stock 3.8 pulley setup? i know dyno numbers are subjective but i thought stock pulley, even with a good tuner and injectors, was only good to around 575 to the wheels. good to know the versatility of the stock paxton kit...if that's the case.

Nice numbers!
I wasn't aware that the Procharger has a less intrusive install than the Paxton. What's the reason you went with the Procharger?

I went with the Paxton, not the Procharger. the biggest reason is that the head is good up to 1000hp in case i ever want to build my bottom end and go for it and the intercooler is also better. the price is also much better.

 

[Sof Top]

On the subject of tuners. Do you recommend using one of the reputable online tuners or rather find a local shop?

Triangle Speed Shop in Orange is about 1.5hrs from Houston, they are doing pretty good numbers with boosted coyotes. They have tuned alot of 2011+ mustangs.

Or you could go thru AED, Lund or BBR and do email/datalogging route.

If you decide to go with a Vortech or Paxton kit, definately call or PM Beefcake, he has the BEST pricng on these kits!

 

[DG_]

It's not reversable per-say. The things you cut won't interfere with your motor running if you went back to stock, but the bumper would still be trimmed, as well at the fan shroud, upper radiator hose, engine cover etc.

As for the tuning, I would highly recommend using Shaun at AED, but it's up to you and your budget for exactly who you want to use. I'd never use a local shop that doesn't specialize in the copperhead ECU to tune the car, it is a very advanced system and could easily be screwed up by someone who hasn't had experience with it. I was lucky with Shaun, and was one of the last few to recieve a tune using street logging, but he will only tune forced induction cars on a dyno now, but he will still do the remote tuning on a dyno of your choice, and it is all very easy to log the runs and send him the files to revise.

Part of the reason the Procharger isn't as intrusive in its install is due to its positioning in the engine bay and the way the intercooler pipes run into and out of the bumper. However, the actual intercooler core is smaller than the Paxton unit, and, for the power level I will eventually be running the car at (700+) I wanted the better efficiency of the 3 core Paxton intercooler. Also, the Procharger requires you to change the crank pulley on the motor to add an extra accecessory drive for the blower pulley, which can add excess strain to the end of the crankshaft, which was just a personal preferance on my part. In addition to those reasons, it also pulls its air in from right above the driver's side exhaust manifold, and well, I didn't really want that either haha.



Again, definitely find a reputable tuner online, I recommend AED, but I'm biased ;-)

Thanks again Nocturnal.
Definitely not a fan of having to cut under the hood, but reading your post Paxton is definitely the way to go. I'd hate to be maxed out from the get go with the Procharger.

How exactly does a remote tune work? Does the online tuner adjust the parameters as the car is sitting on the dyno?

 

[DG_]

See if you can enable PMs or something in your user CP.

Unable to find a setting for PMs. I can even find a PM button/folder.
I'm guessing new members must post a certain # of posts or be members for period of time??

 

[pohnjarker]

Triangle Speed Shop in Orange is about 1.5hrs from Houston, they are doing pretty good numbers with boosted coyotes. They have tuned alot of 2011+ mustangs.

Or you could go thru AED, Lund or BBR and do email/datalogging route.

If you decide to go with a Vortech or Paxton kit, definately call or PM Beefcake, he has the BEST pricng on these kits!

Shaun does work with TSS and recommends them for dyno tuning. that says a lot about a place to me.

i was having issues with my logging because the BAP was not working right, Shaun said if i want to, he's refund my money and send me over to TSS for their custom dyno tune. if i didnt live so far away id have taken him up on that offer.

 

[DG_]

Triangle Speed Shop in Orange is about 1.5hrs from Houston, they are doing pretty good numbers with boosted coyotes. They have tuned alot of 2011+ mustangs.

Or you could go thru AED, Lund or BBR and do email/datalogging route.

If you decide to go with a Vortech or Paxton kit, definately call or PM Beefcake, he has the BEST pricng on these kits!

Think I will go the online tuner route.

Yea, been trying to PM different vendors, but can't yet.