Fun debate at work about number of power adders...

[DaleM]

each system is a power adder
bottle is part of a nitrous system
twin turbo is part of a forced induction system
meth and water are part of a single injection system

 

[vortecd]

Everyone is going to have their own idea of what is or isn't. I have raced and been around the NMRA so this would be my thinking:

It really depends on the context. In many NHRA classes:

1 turbo = 1 power adder
2 turbo = 2 power adder
1 turbo + air/air or air/water = 2 power adder
1 turbo + meth = 2 power adder

so depending on how he has his 300zx set up, if it is using stock location side mount intercoolers it is 4 power adder in the right context.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

each system is a power adder
bottle is part of a nitrous system
twin turbo is part of a forced induction system
meth and water are part of a single injection system

I disagree.

Why would you need twin turbos? Because one doesn't do what you are needing. Same with why you would have multiple nitrous kits.. the one power adder isn't accomplishing what you need, so you get another to accomplish a goal. Wether the end result is more hp, more trq, or no lag, the result is multiple units to create a final result that would not have happened as a signle unit.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

Everyone is going to have their own idea of what is or isn't. I have raced and been around the NMRA so this would be my thinking:

My thoughts exactly.

What everyone else is saying is this example...

Car A has 1 turbo that is 66mm, Car B has 2 turbos that are 66mm each, and everyone is stating they are equal in the number of power adders because they both only have one type of power adder (turbocharger type system). Even thought the performce on the same car would be different.

 

[McRat]

Two power-adders

Boost and drugs. 2 power adders is boosted + chems (Nitrous, water/methanol, propane, etc).

The third power adder would be reaction power - Rocket or Jet engine assist.

 

[DaleM]

I disagree.

Why would you need twin turbos? Because one doesn't do what you are needing. Same with why you would have multiple nitrous kits.. the one power adder isn't accomplishing what you need, so you get another to accomplish a goal. Wether the end result is more hp, more trq, or no lag, the result is multiple units to create a final result that would not have happened as a signle unit.

Space, twin turbos can be put inline and not need the diameter to provide the power a single turbo. It is part of a single system, like putting two batteries in your remote control, you do not consider it two power adders do you? It is OK to be wrong.

 

[KurtDog]

The end result is always who's faster. Who cares whats done to the car and how many power adders you have?

The new F1 engines are 1.6 liters. Ask him why it takes him twice the displacement to get 2/3 the power.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

Space, twin turbos can be put inline and not need the diameter to provide the power a single turbo. It is part of a single system, like putting two batteries in your remote control, you do not consider it two power adders do you? It is OK to be wrong.

so if I put two nitrous kits on my car its the same as one nitrous kit on my car???

400 hp motor.. add 100 hp nitrous kit (power adder one) and then add another 100 hp nitrous kit (power adder two), says that I have two power adders on my car. Both units add hp to my car. They are a single type of power adder, but I have two units that allow me to have more power. aka two power adders.

 

[James Snover]

It's a meaningless distinction. Turbochargers and superchargers are both superchargers. Nitrous is a supercharger, in that it too makes more power by putting more O2 in the cylinder than otherwise possible via normal aspiration.

It's all about the O2 in the cylinder.

 

[DaleM]

so if I put two nitrous kits on my car its the same as one nitrous kit on my car???

400 hp motor.. add 100 hp nitrous kit (power adder one) and then add another 100 hp nitrous kit (power adder two), says that I have two power adders on my car. Both units add hp to my car. They are a single type of power adder, but I have two units that allow me to have more power. aka two power adders.

just buy 3 batteries. If you had two nitrous systems, then you would have 2 power adders since they would be separate systems. You only have a single turbo system with a twin turbo set up.

I know the word system is killing you so you should stop while you are behind. Maybe you should get some more batteries.

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

just buy 3 batteries. If you had two nitrous systems, then you would have 2 power adders since they would be separate systems. You only have a single turbo system with a twin turbo set up.

I know the word system is killing you so you should stop while you are behind. Maybe you should get some more batteries.

No, you just contradicted yourself.

You can have a single nitrous system with multiple stages and bottles. Let me know if you need a few links to set ups of this type.

I love your battery comments. Notice I'm not trying to win an argument or debate by insulting one's intelligence. For amusement though, please let me know why this even is relevant. When you add more batteries you have more power? Just like adding more batteries or sizes for different operating machines, cars, etc. So it’s not clear to me on what point you are trying to make.

Back to my point.

1 turbo - 1 power adder
2 turbos - 2 power adders
1 supercharger - 1 power adder
2 supercharges - 2 power adders
1 nitrous kit - 1 power adder
2 nitrous kits - 2 power adders

There is not a situation where having one of the above would not result in more power by adding the addtional power adder of the same induction system. Meaning... no matter if the car has one turbo or three, if you add one more, you should be able to find more total capacity for additional power. Meaning you've just added another power adder to the car. More power or additonal power is what I'm stating, based on the additional power adder unit.

If the power adder can be used as a stand alone single unit, it would be a one power adder system for the car. If you add the same unit twice into the car, that is two power adders. They may not double the power or feed each other, but the fact is there is more than one.

 

[McRat]

Note: with diesels, twin turbocharging is different.

A single turbo struggles to make more than 50 PSIG boost.

With staged twins, you can go over 100 psig.

 

[Dragu1a]

i'd like to hear more of this "506rwhp" 300zx.

 

[Capri R]

i'd like to hear more of this "506rwhp" 300zx.

Its actually 507rwhp and that was dynoed on the hottest day in the summer @ 16psi.

 

[McRat]

To put it into perspective, I took a 310HP (badge rating) turbo engine that made 255rwhp, plugged a laptop computer into it, spent 6 hours on the Westec Dyno (the one most magazines articles are shot at) and ended up with 502rwhp and 1100ft/lb. On pump fuel only. No engine or turbo changes. Not even wastegate adjust. At 7200lb it ran 13.10 @ 103mph with no VHT on off-road tires.

500rwhp out of a turbo engine? Not a big deal.

 

[Capri R]

To put it into perspective, I took a 310HP (badge rating) turbo engine that made 255rwhp, plugged a laptop computer into it, spent 6 hours on the Westec Dyno (the one most magazines articles are shot at) and ended up with 502rwhp and 1100ft/lb. On pump fuel only. No engine or turbo changes. Not even wastegate adjust. At 7200lb it ran 13.10 @ 103mph with no VHT on off-road tires.

500rwhp out of a turbo engine? Not a big deal.

That is awesome. I guess you did that to a diesel engine right?
Well the 300zx is a fully working car with cold ass a/c and full interior and is set on low boost currently. 507rwhp puts the engine at about 600 hp and it is not done yet.
After an injector upgrade it should see about 600-620 rwhp. Not bad for a little 3.0 liter don't you think?

 

[UncleDan]

Yeah and about 20+ pounds of boost on top of it.

OOH SLAM

not really though.

psi comparisons to output mean jack shit because there are too many variables involved.

It's still invalid to the whole "we don't need 8 cylinders to make big power" argument.

Which is going to make more horsepower? A 6 cylinder 2JZ at 20 psi or a 440 LSX at 20 psi?

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

Its actually 507rwhp and that was dynoed on the hottest day in the summer @ 16psi.

Don't forget to put in your signature... Japan is faster then domestics with only 6 cylinders!

 

[Capri R]

Don't forget to put in your signature... Japan is faster then domestics with only 6 cylinders!

Don't get mad, sunshine. lol

 

[Capri R]

It's still invalid to the whole "we don't need 8 cylinders to make big power" argument.

Which is going to make more horsepower? A 6 cylinder 2JZ at 20 psi or a 440 LSX at 20 psi?

I would assume the LSX with 2 extra cylinders.