Watch out GT350, The 1LE SS is coming!

[svtfocus2cobra]

Ppeople were buying them at msrp or higher. The reason it can't fetch 75k anymore is because there is a direct competitor that does everything the z28 does but better. Its called economic competition so apparently you don't understand economics

There's not much I can say that hasn't already been said by everyone else. The Z28 prices plummeted long before the GT350 was even on the radar; it was still circling the rumor-mill at that point. The prices fell because it was overpriced, plain and simple. But you may be right in that the two cars can have an affect on one another's price because after the Z28 disaster Ford realized what would happen if the pricing was wrong on this type of vehicle. I don't see how you can think there was direct competition though because the Z28 was competing in a league by itself.

And no one wants a Viper at $120k because you can get some new exotics for slightly more that offer significantly more in regards to comfort and style, or you can get some used exotics like an R8, 911 Turbo, or Gallardo which don't need anymore explanation which to why you would choose one over the Viper.

 

[Ohio Snake]

Interesting thread!

Dealers can mark a car up as high as the consumer is willing to pay. What is the sweet spot for a mark up? No one really knows. But the "must have it" customer will pay a marked up price for a vehicle because the dealer sells on emotion.

Performance competition between car manufacturers for market share raises the bar to produce better performing vehicles. Brand junkies love this and may pay an amount above or at the MSRP for a specialty car. Manufacturers know this and will respond with offering a new specialty car with focused purposes (GT350R, GT500)

Then there is the reality of "supply and demand". Discount those vehicles not meeting sales expectations regardless of trim level or push for volume.

The Shelby name is synonymous with Ford. Shelby branded vehicles are highly desired and a Shelby is highly recognized in the automotive world......except for a few WTF Shelby's (Shelby Dodge Omni).

IMO- Ford owns the most recognized and highly marketed variants of its Mustang (Boss, CobraJet, Mach, Cobra, California Special, GT, Shelby, GT500, GT350...to name a few). Most everyone has heard of these specialty cars. Camaros have their own recognizable variants as well. The manufacturers will produce what the consumers demand and attach an MSRP the consumers are willing to spend.

 

[LS Boss]

Interesting thread!

Dealers can mark a car up as high as the consumer is willing to pay. What is the sweet spot for a mark up? No one really knows. But the "must have it" customer will pay a marked up price for a vehicle because the dealer sells on emotion.

Performance competition between car manufacturers for market share raises the bar to produce better performing vehicles. Brand junkies love this and may pay an amount above or at the MSRP for a specialty car. Manufacturers know this and will respond with offering a new specialty car with focused purposes (GT350R, GT500)

Then there is the reality of "supply and demand". Discount those vehicles not meeting sales expectations regardless of trim level or push for volume.

The Shelby name is synonymous with Ford. Shelby branded vehicles are highly desired and a Shelby is highly recognized in the automotive world......except for a few WTF Shelby's (Shelby Dodge Omni).

IMO- Ford owns the most recognized and highly marketed variants of its Mustang (Boss, CobraJet, Mach, Cobra, California Special, GT, Shelby, GT500, GT350...to name a few). Most everyone has heard of these specialty cars. Camaros have their own recognizable variants as well. The manufacturers will produce what the consumers demand and attach an MSRP the consumers are willing to spend.

I hear what you're saying Buckeye and agree with most of it. However I think a lot of anger about paying ADM is justified and I do blame Ford more than GM for this problem. It is my belief that Ford deliberately restricts the production numbers for these premium select brands of Mustangs to drive up buyer anxiety and artificially creates a frenzy that drives up the prices to the point that the dealers can step in and jack up their profits. It takes 2 to tango and the reason why these exhorbitant ADMs exists on these vehicles is Ford, in cahoots with dealers, have rigged the supply system to keep its dealer happy. Does GM do this with Chevy? Do you ever hear about GM going to limit the production of the Z06, ZR1,1le, Z28,....? Ford plays a lot of games with their production. How many 2015 GT350s did Ford make? How many people in this forum picked up one at MSRP? Not many! These vehicle go to high level Ford managers, celebrities who Ford uses to promote the vehicle and provide publicity, and to charities. This is just the way Ford does business. We as Ford junkies, must live with this or move on.

 

[SVT_28]

Reading all these threads with real interest as I am buying a GT350 now. Despite what the troll here is spouting, The Chevy is damn good and at today's discounted prices, is a good indicator of what is to come with the GT350 pricing - just like every other "special" mustang before it. At least competition will knock down the hype. I think it's healthy. And I'm ok with the ADM as a capitalist but it's just frustrating as a buyer and I won't pay it. We are still talking about a Mustang here folks - 90% similar to a base model at the end of the day. Pay 90k!? - you are out of your minds!

This is just my .02 as a hardcore mustang racer.

Gt350 is 90% the same as a base model.....interesting statement.....

 

[LS Boss]

Gt350 is 90% the same as a base model.....interesting statement.....

Thta number looks a little high. I'm thinking more like 60 percent

 

[LS Boss]

Double Post

 

[conceptmachine]

There is a dealer by me who has a 350 , 10k over. I went in the other day willing to pay msrp for it and they didnt want any part of it. So i get a call today saying they will go 5k over sticker...laughed and told them MSRP is what im willing to pay. I said, dont really want it now anyway, ill order the combo im looking for. Its sitting...just like a couple hundred are around the country. Production will break out again in March and if they don't start bringing them down to msrp they will continue to sit. I'm glad the Camaro is coming up...Gonna lower damand a bit...it's a good thing. Ford kicks ass...i dont see myself ever buying another Dodge product. Perhaps a mid motor vette ... but that would be it from Chevy too. Ford has my interest and I think their build quality and materials are a notch higher than the others

 

[Ohio Snake]

I hear what you're saying Buckeye and agree with most of it. However I think a lot of anger about paying ADM is justified and I do blame Ford more than GM for this problem. It is my belief that Ford deliberately restricts the production numbers for these premium select brands of Mustangs to drive up buyer anxiety and artificially creates a frenzy that drives up the prices to the point that the dealers can step in and jack up their profits. It takes 2 to tango and the reason why these exhorbitant ADMs exists on these vehicles is Ford, in cahoots with dealers, have rigged the supply system to keep its dealer happy. Does GM do this with Chevy? Do you ever hear about GM going to limit the production of the Z06, ZR1,1le, Z28,....? Ford plays a lot of games with their production. How many 2015 GT350s did Ford make? How many people in this forum picked up one at MSRP? Not many! These vehicle go to high level Ford managers, celebrities who Ford uses to promote the vehicle and provide publicity, and to charities. This is just the way Ford does business. We as Ford junkies, must live with this or move on.

I agree with this assessment as well. If the manufacturer creates the situation of a limited production run and it works to create a higher MSRP for a vehicle and gives the dealership a perceived justification to mark up a vehicle and the consumer bites after it......the ADM cycle will continue. Supply and demand.

 

[MysticRob]

Maybe a handful of early adopters back in 2014 when there were only a few hundred made, once chevy increased production for 2015 sales had already tanked. Hell you could even find brand new 2014s just last year. It was certainly not economic competition, the car was way over-priced to start with and just not a great all around car. (not at all detracting from its on-track capability)

Adding to this, and since I'd forgotten about the Z/28, I decided to look at availability and pricing on Cars.com. Quite a shock to see 100s of new 2015s from $59k all the way up to $87k still available. That is a big swing in prices. I can't speak to whether the GT350 has tanked the Z28's sales, but I do think the price to performance ratio makes it a hard sell, especially at those nosebleed prices.

There's even a new ZL1 for $51k on there.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/646989482/overview/

 

[Snorman]

Adding to this, and since I'd forgotten about the Z/28, I decided to look at availability and pricing on Cars.com. Quite a shock to see 100s of new 2015s from $59k all the way up to $87k still available. That is a big swing in prices. I can't speak to whether the GT350 has tanked the Z28's sales, but I do think the price to performance ratio makes it a hard sell, especially at those nosebleed prices.

There's even a new ZL1 for $51k on there.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/646989482/overview/

Z28 sales tanked long before the GT350. GM was blowing those cars out early last year with $15k+ discounts off of MSRP. People were buying cars in the low-mid $50's.
Strangely, I see VERY few on-track. I've seen maybe 2 or 3 out there. It was really just a bad car. The Gen V interior was horrible, the seating position and site lines were bad and it was very heavy. Just like Dodge did with the new ACR...GM put badass tires, brakes and dampers on the car and voila. Add the LS7 and they created a "track car".
S.
S.

 

[az20115.0]

There's not much I can say that hasn't already been said by everyone else. The Z28 prices plummeted long before the GT350 was even on the radar; it was still circling the rumor-mill at that point. The prices fell because it was overpriced, plain and simple. But you may be right in that the two cars can have an affect on one another's price because after the Z28 disaster Ford realized what would happen if the pricing was wrong on this type of vehicle. I don't see how you can think there was direct competition though because the Z28 was competing in a league by itself.

And no one wants a Viper at $120k because you can get some new exotics for slightly more that offer significantly more in regards to comfort and style, or you can get some used exotics like an R8, 911 Turbo, or Gallardo which don't need anymore explanation which to why you would choose one over the Viper.

Well the GT350R was gunning for the z28 from the start and I think everyone knew that, plus it was brand new stuff, and most knew it was going to be faster and better.

I think the Viper dropped so much because the new gen Viper was actually slower in every way than the outgoing gen Corvette. Here is a comparo video shows it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExgJxgNSWtk

I remember watching this video thinking the Viper is f###ed

Now off course the Viper answered with the TA and now with ACR and I bet anything they will have no problems selling the shit out of them. Why? Because it blew the doors of its closest competitor, the new Z06.
I do not think exotics compete with Viper or Corvette for market share. There too many reasons to list why

 

[az20115.0]

Just like Dodge did with the new ACR...GM put badass tires, brakes and dampers on the car and voila. Add the LS7 and they created a "track car".
S.
S.

Viper ACR is a record setting car. Its an absolute monster.. its everything a Viper should have been. Z28 is something completely different.. and BTW its nor just tires and brakes, there is a lot more to a Z28 than that. It is also not a bad car, its a great car! Its just not a $70k car, but neither is the GT350 and time will prove that..

 

[DBK]

Well the GT350R was gunning for the z28 from the start and I think everyone knew that, plus it was brand new stuff, and most knew it was going to be faster and better.

No dude. Just no. The Z28 was riding the rocketship south on its own merits.

Z28 sales tanked long before the GT350. GM was blowing those cars out early last year with $15k+ discounts off of MSRP. People were buying cars in the low-mid $50's.
Strangely, I see VERY few on-track. I've seen maybe 2 or 3 out there. It was really just a bad car. The Gen V interior was horrible, the seating position and site lines were bad and it was very heavy. Just like Dodge did with the new ACR...GM put badass tires, brakes and dampers on the car and voila. Add the LS7 and they created a "track car".
S.
S.

This. A buddy of mine won (yes, won) a Z28 in fall 2014. I begged him to dump it ASAP lest he watch his winnings disappear. He was lazy about it and by the spring the car was already cooked.

 

[ON D BIT]

Snorman how are the sight lines on the new camaro? I hear it is still hard to see out of.

 

[DSG2003SVT]

Snorman how are the sight lines on the new camaro? I hear it is still hard to see out of.

I sat in a 2016. Everything is fine now IMO except straight back. The rear window is worthless.

 

[ZYBORG]

Any links to said interview?

Im curious as well...

[youtube_browser]MLPvxA131t0[/youtube_browser]

 

[Snorman]

Now off course the Viper answered with the TA and now with ACR and I bet anything they will have no problems selling the shit out of them. Why? Because it blew the doors of its closest competitor, the new Z06.

And you would be absolutely wrong. Dodge is not selling the shit out of them and in the last 3 months of 2015 Viper sales were down ~24% from 2014 sales. And they sold fewer Vipers in January than they did in January '15.
The car is dead.
S.

 

[Snorman]

Viper ACR is a record setting car. Its an absolute monster.. its everything a Viper should have been. Z28 is something completely different.. and BTW its nor just tires and brakes, there is a lot more to a Z28 than that. It is also not a bad car, its a great car! Its just not a $70k car, but neither is the GT350 and time will prove that..

It's tires, brakes, dampers and the LS7. There is some gravy there like the front splitter and rear lip. It's a big, heavy car with pretty bad interior and yes...not worth $70k as the market proved over the last few years.
S.

 

[az20115.0]

And you would be absolutely wrong. Dodge is not selling the shit out of them and in the last 3 months of 2015 Viper sales were down ~24% from 2014 sales. And they sold fewer Vipers in January than they did in January '15.
The car is dead.
S.

dude, you have to read my posts completely. I was talking about the ACR

 

[Snorman]

dude, you have to read my posts completely. I was talking about the ACR

It doesn't matter. You're wrong either way regarding Viper sales and trying to link it to performance. I would guess based on Gen IV ACR sales, Dodge will be lucky to sell a total of 150-200 ACR's in '16/'17. That's not "selling the shit" out of them. They're not even bumping total Viper sales.
Neat car, very capable on-track. But not what very many people will buy.
S.