Fall 2017 GT500 supercharged voodoo, 10 speed auto and....

[thePill]

Making power has nothing to do with how many power adders are used, nor how they are driven. Anyone can make a 800hp single turbo 5.0l coyote that will pass emissions though it will have non optimal drivability.

Drivability is the only reason to use twins vs a larger single turbo but again does nothing for peak power all else equal.

Sorry, not everyone can. Manufacturers have hurdles to overcome and a 5 liter with a single turbo or supercharger isn't gonna leap over what Dodge has done.

 

[thePill]

In all honesty, has anyone checked Ford's new Port Direct Injection system? I would check to see if the Port and Direct Injectors are compatible with a Roots-type supercharger?

Because you really should before committing to a supercharger theory.

A Hot V design could swap those injectors outboard. That is IF Fords PDI system encases both injectors inside the V.

 

[Fourcam380]

Sorry, not everyone can. Manufacturers have hurdles to overcome and a 5 liter with a single turbo or supercharger isn't gonna leap over what Dodge has done.

I cited the one pressing concern with this design: drivability.

5.0ls and smaller engines with single turbos and larger twin screws have and will continue to make more HP than Dodge ever has.

 

[Fourcam380]

In all honesty, has anyone checked Ford's new Port Direct Injection system? I would check to see if the Port and Direct Injectors are compatible with a Roots-type supercharger?

Because you really should before committing to a supercharger theory.

A Hot V design could swap those injectors outboard. That is IF Fords PDI system encases both injectors inside the V.

Mustang GT and F150 not going to hot vee configurations period.

 

[thePill]

Mustang GT and F150 not going to hot vee configurations period.

Never said that.

In order to break 800hp with an OEM Coyote, you would need two turbos, one dedicated to each bank. Some BiT systems could work but not as effectively as a parallel or Hot V equivalent.

A Hot V would be GT500 bound.

 

[Fourcam380]

Never said that.

In order to break 800hp with an OEM Coyote, you would need two turbos, one dedicated to each bank. Some BiT systems could work but not as effectively as a parallel or Hot V equivalent.

A Hot V would be GT500 bound.

So you're saying mustang GTs and f series trucks will have exhaust ports on the inside of the vee and consequently exhaust manifolds or headers there as well? Not happening.

Again nothing factually prevents a 5.0l v8 from making 800hp with a single.

 

[tones_RS3]

It will be a 5.0 with twin 62mm...the delay was hard starting and oil consumption, along with keeping costs down.

I thought it was going to be a TVS 2650 5.0 beast?!?!

She better be a looker.....

Absolutely bro. I agree.
Better have killer looks, killer power/torque and killer performance.

 

[thePill]

So you're saying mustang GTs and f series trucks will have exhaust ports on the inside of the vee and consequently exhaust manifolds or headers there as well? Not happening.

Again nothing factually prevents a 5.0l v8 from making 800hp with a single.

What are you talking about?

Just as Romeo developed a special engine for the GT350, a specially developed Ecoboost can and most likely will be developed for the GT500.

The only components shared would be the block and PDI system. PDI's development cost needed to be shared with the F150 and GT, nothing else. Calm down buddy. It is a smart move for Ford to put that tech in the GT first. Regardless of which way the heads will face, the PDI system should be shared.

I would look into compatibility issues with a supercharger and PDI system. I am willing to bet it presents an issue.

 

[thePill]

So you're saying mustang GTs and f series trucks will have exhaust ports on the inside of the vee and consequently exhaust manifolds or headers there as well? Not happening.

Again nothing factually prevents a 5.0l v8 from making 800hp with a single.

Not at the OEM level, keep dreaming.

A single turbo or a supercharger is going to take a 5.0 w/ PDI up to maybe 700. Maybe... 5.8 was needed for 662 from a DOHC, maybe the 5.0 could beat that OEM.

Besides that, people have become delusional.

I have always said "808hp" and that's been for 18-20 months. In order to justify that number, two separate turbos are needed. Back then that number sounded crazy, now, people want the same number from just a SC or single turbo. Don't see it happening...

 

[thePill]

I have ALWAYS said "808"

I had always assumed that only a Hot V would fit. Could the '18 refresh provide the additional room needed to run two turbos mounted low and on each side of the block?

Because if "808" was truly the target, a single twin scroll turbo nor 2300-2900 supercharger will get a 5.0 or 5.2 CPC Coyote there OEM.

I believe that Ford may have developed an Ecoboost V8 that uses a Hot V configuration. A Hot V configuration would be easily interchangeable with the Powerstroke truck engine design they called "Scorpion". It is not a Hot V Twin/BiT but uses a Sequential Turbo in the V.

One issue a parallel twin turbo presents is global packaging. Using a Hot V that is similar to the Powerstroke will allow Ford Performance to use the engine in trucks/SUV's like the Raptor, Lighting, Super Bronco and FP Ranger. The truck lineup needs a heavy hitting V8 in the Ecoboost family. I believe the GT500 will showcase Fords first Ecoboost V8.

Now that Dodge is 808, the GT500 will need slightly more if that title is important.

 

[Fourcam380]

I have ALWAYS said "808"

I had always assumed that only a Hot V would fit. Could the '18 refresh provide the additional room needed to run two turbos mounted low and on each side of the block?

Because if "808" was truly the target, a single twin scroll turbo nor 2300-2900 supercharger will get a 5.0 or 5.2 CPC Coyote there OEM.

I believe that Ford may have developed an Ecoboost V8 that uses a Hot V configuration. A Hot V configuration would be easily interchangeable with the Powerstroke truck engine design they called "Scorpion". It is not a Hot V Twin/BiT but uses a Sequential Turbo in the V.

One issue a parallel twin turbo presents is global packaging. Using a Hot V that is similar to the Powerstroke will allow Ford Performance to use the engine in trucks/SUV's like the Raptor, Lighting, Super Bronco and FP Ranger. The truck lineup needs a heavy hitting V8 in the Ecoboost family. I believe the GT500 will showcase Fords first Ecoboost V8.

Now that Dodge is 808, the GT500 will need slightly more if that title is important.

I was going to respond to the other posts then read this. Power stroke and coyote interchangeable?

 

[thePill]

I cited the one pressing concern with this design: drivability.

5.0ls and smaller engines with single turbos and larger twin screws have and will continue to make more HP than Dodge ever has.

You think an OEM 5.0 with a single turbo can beat 808?

I was going to respond to the other posts then read this. Power stroke and coyote interchangeable?

No, a Hot V and 6.7 Scorpion are set up the same.

 

[thePill]

Do you understand the configuration?

A Powerstroke uses a Sequential turbo in the same location as a Hot V BiT would go. Therefore the exhaust routes would be the same.

Look at the "Scorpion" Powerstroke and compare it to a Hot V. As an engine builder, if I could develop one V8 engine to sustain my FR truck lineup and GT500, it would be worth looking into.

 

[Fourcam380]

You think an OEM 5.0 with a single turbo can beat 808?

No, a Hot V and 6.7 Scorpion are set up the same.

Lol.

Last time. Engine size is irrelevant to peak power, displacement of the blower it turbos dictates that, the trinity made 660 with a tiny inefficient blower.

Last post from me. Can't do it anymore lol. Sonic605 you called it.

 

[thePill]

Lol.

Last time. Engine size is irrelevant to peak power, displacement of the blower it turbos dictates that, the trinity made 660 with a tiny inefficient blower.

Last post from me. Can't do it anymore lol. Sonic605 you called it.

Engine size IS NOT irrelevant, especially when considering forced induction.

Not sure where you heard that from.

 

[thePill]

That kinda thinking will get you in trouble.

Please see the 2012 GT500's 5.4 vs. a 5.8.

The increase in maximum potential was incredible. Even at 5.8, the engine made 662hp. While I do believe the Coyote to be more efficient, it's not out performing the rest of the industry.

 

[Fourcam380]

You build engines but don't understand that the head unit of the blower or turbo dictates peak power regardless of displacement? NA the heads do. This isn't up for debate though you did get one last post out of me.

 

[Fourcam380]

That kinda thinking will get you in trouble.

Please see the 2012 GT500's 5.4 vs. a 5.8.

The increase in maximum potential was incredible. Even at 5.8, the engine made 662hp. While I do believe the Coyote to be more efficient, it's not out performing the rest of the industry.

The only comparable NA 5.0 v8 is Lexus's and both sit atop the market. The 5.8 couldn't make power NA which is the true measure of a cylinder head. Port angles are shit. And when comparing FI engines the only thing the motor has to do is hold the power. None of what you say makes any sense.

 

[thePill]

The only comparable NA 5.0 v8 is Lexus's and both sit atop the market. The 5.8 couldn't make power NA which is the true measure of a cylinder head. Port angles are shit. And when comparing FI engines the only thing the motor has to do is hold the power. None of what you say makes any sense.

You don't understand it so therefore it must be untrue?

It's either embrace a unique turbo system similar to the Ford GT or a system similar to AMG/BMW's Hot V. If 800+ is the target, a supercharger or Twin scroll won't due. It's good to get rid of the ZL1LE but not Dodges 808 rating.

A single Twin scroll could probably get 140-150hp per liter, but that is asking a lot for an OEM V8 engine.

Know that it was primarily me that spread the "808" rumor. Even back then I knew conventional FI wouldn't make it happen. Needs to be larger than 5.0 for sure. Flat Plane is out of the question.

 

[Fourcam380]

You don't understand it so therefore it must be untrue?

It's either embrace a unique turbo system similar to the Ford GT or a system similar to AMG/BMW's Hot V. If 800+ is the target, a supercharger or Twin scroll won't due. It's good to get rid of the ZL1LE but not Dodges 808 rating.

A single Twin scroll could probably get 140-150hp per liter, but that is asking a lot for an OEM V8 engine.

Know that it was primarily me that spread the "808" rumor. Even back then I knew conventional FI wouldn't make it happen. Needs to be larger than 5.0 for sure. Flat Plane is out of the question.

I understand everything you're saying, and you've never built anything that could turn over, so let's not confuse the matter. The floor is yours.