Heat Soak on Stock Eaton

[CYAZ06]

Hi All,

I have searched through these threads to find this issue, so if this has been covered.....I apologize.

I have been open tracking my 03 cobra for the last year. I have done a ton of upgrades as well as cooling upgrades, as I knew that heat was a problem with these cars.

I have added a LFP Racing Radiator, Heat Exchanger, and Intercooler Supertank. I have added a 2.80 pulley and had it tuned. I have added a 160 degree thermostat as well. The engine never goes above the 1/2 way mark on the stock temp guage. No matter how hard I run the car.

This past August I ran my car at Texas Motor Speedway. I was doing good till I blew the rubber seal on my LFP intercooler supertank lid, and blew coolant/water all over the place. I refilled the tank, replaced the lid and ran again. Same problem. Engine temps still 1/2 way.

Went to Hallet after that, after calling LFP and getting a new cap, and the same thing happened. It happens after about 6 laps. I went a head and called it quits and figured the LFP tank was the problem.

I went ahead and bought the Canton Intercooler tank with the "old school" 16 psi cap. Ran the car again at Motorsports Ranch and it started to loose boost after about 6 laps. I mean NO boost at all. I pitted, and the car started to go into "Limp" mode, the the engine temp guage still showing "normal". I also noticed that the tank was low in fluid, so it must have been blowing it out of the release nozzle onto the ground.

I am running straight distilled water with Watter Wetter in the Intercooler. I am running the car harder every time I track it, as I am just flat out going faster. So I assume that I am just heat soaking the blower. My main concern is that I was blowing the seal on the Intercooler tank, which tells me that it is going past 16 PSI. The intercooler pump works fine, so I know that fluid is flowing.

My question is; if the engine is running cool and the blower isn't, is this normal? Is there a sensor that could be going bad?

Any advice would be most appreciated. Nothing worse that trying to accelerate out of a corner with NO torque!!

Thanks again.

 

[wheelhopper]

My last event I ran my car pretty hard, for me. I was steady in the 4000-5000rpm range for 20+ minutes. I drive an '03 Cobra that has a 2.8 pulley and a 2# lower. My entire cooling system was stock. Air temps about 75-80 degrees. I had no problems what so ever. I have also run with just the 2.8 in 95 degree weather, no problems.

I do have a stage 4 ported eaton. That helps reduce intake temps, if you don't have that done, that may be an area to consider. I would also recomend installing an accurate temp gauge for your coolant and oil. Another thing would be to pull a couple of degrees of timing out of the car. I know that running a car just under the point of detonation makes the most power but, it also creates more heat.

If all that fails I would put the entire cooling system back to stock, make sure it is purged of air, then add 1 cooling component at each track outing. That way you can tell what works, does nothing, and helps.

Good luck.

 

[racebronco2]

1. I have added a LFP Racing Radiator, Heat Exchanger, and Intercooler Supertank. I have added a 2.80 pulley and had it tuned. I have added a 160 degree thermostat as well. The engine never goes above the 1/2 way mark on the stock temp guage. No matter how hard I run the car.

2. This past August I ran my car at Texas Motor Speedway. I was doing good till I blew the rubber seal on my LFP intercooler supertank lid, and blew coolant/water all over the place. I refilled the tank, replaced the lid and ran again. Same problem. Engine temps still 1/2 way.

3. Went to Hallet after that, after calling LFP and getting a new cap, and the same thing happened. It happens after about 6 laps. I went a head and called it quits and figured the LFP tank was the problem.

4. I went ahead and bought the Canton Intercooler tank with the "old school" 16 psi cap. Ran the car again at Motorsports Ranch and it started to loose boost after about 6 laps. I mean NO boost at all. I pitted, and the car started to go into "Limp" mode, the the engine temp guage still showing "normal". I also noticed that the tank was low in fluid, so it must have been blowing it out of the release nozzle onto the ground.

5. I am running straight distilled water with Watter Wetter in the Intercooler. I am running the car harder every time I track it, as I am just flat out going faster. So I assume that I am just heat soaking the blower. My main concern is that I was blowing the seal on the Intercooler tank, which tells me that it is going past 16 PSI. The intercooler pump works fine, so I know that fluid is flowing.

6. My question is; if the engine is running cool and the blower isn't, is this normal? Is there a sensor that could be going bad?

Thanks again.

1. The gauges our cars have are dummy gauges, not accurate other then normal reading.

2. The reason why the intercooler overflowed is because engine temps were too high. The higher the engine temps the higher your iat2's get.

3. same as #2

4. same as #2

5. You are heat soaking the blower cause your engine temps are too high.

6. The car is not running cool, that the whole problem. Limp modes are caused by either iat2's are too high or the engine temps are too high. Either way you need to get control of your engine cooling needs before you seize up your engine.

Get some real gauges, that way you can get an accurate reading on your engine temps and know when to back off when the temps start getting too high. Going to a 2.93 will decrease temps by about 10-15 degrees and going to a 3.10 will decrease engine temps by an additional 10-15 degrees.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Excellent advice again from racebronco2!!

Believe me Carlos knows about cooling an open track Terminator.:bowdown::rockon::beer:

 

[racebronco2]

My last event I ran my car pretty hard, for me. I was steady in the 4000-5000rpm range for 20+ minutes. I drive an '03 Cobra that has a 2.8 pulley and a 2# lower. My entire cooling system was stock. Air temps about 75-80 degrees. I had no problems what so ever. I have also run with just the 2.8 in 95 degree weather, no problems.

I do have a stage 4 ported eaton. That helps reduce intake temps, if you don't have that done, that may be an area to consider. I would also recomend installing an accurate temp gauge for your coolant and oil. Another thing would be to pull a couple of degrees of timing out of the car. I know that running a car just under the point of detonation makes the most power but, it also creates more heat.

If all that fails I would put the entire cooling system back to stock, make sure it is purged of air, then add 1 cooling component at each track outing. That way you can tell what works, does nothing, and helps.

Good luck.

Like wheelhopper said if you can keep it between 4000 and 5000 rpms you should have no problem keeping cool. But if you try and get the most out of your car like me and very seldom get below 4000 rpm and shifting at around 6000 rpms you will run in to cooling issues. Engine temps have more of an effect on iat2's then do the ported blower.

 

[CYAZ06]

Thanks everyone. I will try all that you suggested. I think my big problem was the high RPM's. The good news is I am in the process of building a dedicated track car with a push rod motor, so I can keep the Terminator as a street/every now and then track car!

 

[racebronco2]

The really cool thing about our cars is that people come up to me and tell me that they can hear the high pitch (some say it sounds like a jet engine) of my car before they actually see it.

 

[TroyV]

I get the same thing..though I get more comparisons to the Millenuim Falken.. This vid is a good example..

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/saltysearay/summit point 07/?action=view&current=MVI_5049.flv

I've never limped my car. (2.76, no port, stock cooling) At driving events, there is no reason to go balls out every single lap in the session.. Try interspersing a cool lap here and there..

 

[dynobobstieg]

Stiegemeier ported Eaton superchargers scream once ported and our ports do decrease IAT2s across the board and we highly recommend even not ported to let us Blue Print the supercharger:



STIEGEMEIER
Eaton Supercharger Blue Printing

For

High Boost Applications

The Eaton supercharger is engineered for specific type vehicles and rotor speed regulated by pulley size. After 5 years of steady research and development, we have seen rotor to case wear patterns that are consistent with vehicle types.

The rub marks are mostly shadow type that is caused by rotor coating contact. There are two different coatings that appear on Eaton rotors.



Black coating - In the past I referred to as Teflon. It is actually an abratable coating to allow rotors to hone in.

Gray coating- This is a different type of coating for the same reason for rotor hone in, this type is less durable and usually flakes off causing scratches that can lead to galling and supercharger lock up.
A smaller top pulley will spin the rotors quicker for higher boost levels .100 equates to 2lb. of boost. This results in more power and more speed when increasing rotor speed from an OEM setting.

The rotor hone in areas, which we see, as rub patterns will become aggressive causing blower noises, which at times will disappear when the unit heats up and expands. At other times it can cause permanent damage.

All superchargers need to be Blue Printed when increasing rotor speed, past the OEM setting. Blue Printing the supercharger amounts to machining extra clearance in critical rub areas. Stripping rotors (specifically the Gray coating), correcting any rotor timing issues affected by casting core shift, cleaning, de-burring, adding new specific type of supercharger oil and high load Bearing grease along with replacing spring loaded drive couplers with a solid performance type, (when needed). Lastly, inspection of bearings and seals, at the time of Blue Printing.

A rebuilt Front drive is a very wise option, for the added insurance of durability.

High Performance Eaton Blue Print $265.00 (As described above in last paragraph)


(Blue Printing has and is Included in our porting process)


Front Drive Rebuild:

A complete disassemble of the Front Drive, full inspection of the case core, any repair or machining will be done at this time (if needed).

All bearings and seals are replaced with upgraded High RPM performance pieces. Bearings are checked for proper press. Seals are installed with a semi drying liquid gasket seal. Retaining clip and fill plug replaced as needed. Pulley re-install included on any Front Drive Rebuild.

Starting at $125.00 at the time of porting.


New Pulley, size and color of you choice purchase and install $150.00. (for interchangeable hub system)

Machining of Front hub for super small pulley. $75.00.

STIEGEMEIEIR PORTING IS AN AUTHORIZED EATON REMANUFACTURER

Big Thanks to EATON!

 

[racebronco2]

I get the same thing..though I get more comparisons to the Millenuim Falken..

I just love that sound:banana:

 

[wheelhopper]

After this thread I am glad that I have my supercharger ported.

Troy, I am with you in the driving department. There are plenty of areas on the road coarse that I am at 6000 rpm, but it does not have to be all the time. I have 500rwhp on tap. If I only use 450 of it I still go pretty damn fast.

 

[SKMCOBRA]

1. The gauges our cars have are dummy gauges, not accurate other then normal reading.

Loran, Good to see you made it over here to svtperformance. This is where I post most of the time. We met at Hallett last year at the SVTOA event. I have read that the stock guages on the 99+ Mustangs are not as accurate as the older guages. Definately look into getting an aftermarket water temp guage. I have also read that the stock Eatons heat soak much worse with an aftermarket pulley. Have you tried swapping back to the stock pulley at the track to see how she runs? Shannon

 

[spdfrkFL]

They don't call it a Heaton for nothing!

I've done the full Evans kit in an attempt to reduce the temp's. I've found that the water pump made the biggest difference in cooling. I've also bumped down the pulley size from 2.80 to 2.93. Like Carlos, I drive the car hard. I just can't bring myself to drive the car any other way. A supercharger port and a hood are next in line in the attempt to further cool the engine.

 

[tim87tr]

I've never limped my car. (2.76, no port, stock cooling) At driving events, there is no reason to go balls out every single lap in the session.. Try interspersing a cool lap here and there..

This is excellent advice. There is no point in not going easy on a lap after a few faster ones. You can also get a dedicated track tune that will drop the A/F and timing. Mine OT tune drops the A/F to 10.4 and the horsepower is down about 20 hp. Your idea of getting a dedicated track car is a good idea too if you enjoy it enough to justify it. Then you can add more power mods to the street car

 

[SKMCOBRA]

This is excellent advice. There is no point in not going easy on a lap after a few faster ones. You can also get a dedicated track tune that will drop the A/F and timing. Mine OT tune drops the A/F to 10.4 and the horsepower is down about 20 hp. Your idea of getting a dedicated track car is a good idea too if you enjoy it enough to justify it. Then you can add more power mods to the street car

I go all out on every lap, and thus one reason why I want to stay with a n/a'd car. Honestly if I decide I need more power...I will cross over into the LS2 Vette world for road racing. I am hoping the longtubes we just installed last week with a tune will help my hp/tq issues a bit. The car is already running about 5 degrees cooler on the road thanks to the ceramic coated longtubes! :rolling:

 

[9746Cobra]

Heck even Nascar and SCCA guys don't go 100% the whole time, and thats a money race. They try to save a little for the end and/or pace themselves, expecially brakes.

I'd say in racing the F1 guys are probobly the only ones where every driver and every car is 99%-100% the entire race. No reason to do that during "practice/test and tune" sessions, which is all OT is.

Of course if you like going nothing but 100% thats your perogative, enjoy! You just have to pay more to do it thats all.

The limit I found in my stock-pullied 03 Cobra is the overheating rear end. I only went into limp because of the engine once during my first OT event. I know at least another guy (Garland) who's diff needs a rebuild due to overheating. My cars original diff starting making some noise too but I swapped a like-new unit with new gears and have only been OT with that one once. It did overheat though, slightly melted the bushings and pushed fluid out. (And it was not overfilled)

If you are going to OT an IRS car be prepared to get a diff cooler or plan on rebuilding the rear diff every so often.

As for me I'm looking for a less-expensive car (Mustang) to OT with no power adder and no IRS. Lighter weight would be good for brakes sake. Really want a '96-'98 Cobra or '03 Mach 1. Mach 1's are still kinda pricey though.

9746C

 

[Venomous01]

Heck even Nascar and SCCA guys don't go 100% the whole time, and thats a money race. They try to save a little for the end and/or pace themselves, expecially brakes.

I'd say in racing the F1 guys are probobly the only ones where every driver and every car is 99%-100% the entire race. No reason to do that during "practice/test and tune" sessions, which is all OT is.

Of course if you like going nothing but 100% thats your perogative, enjoy! You just have to pay more to do it thats all.

The limit I found in my stock-pullied 03 Cobra is the overheating rear end. I only went into limp because of the engine once during my first OT event. I know at least another guy (Garland) who's diff needs a rebuild due to overheating. My cars original diff starting making some noise too but I swapped a like-new unit with new gears and have only been OT with that one once. It did overheat though, slightly melted the bushings and pushed fluid out. (And it was not overfilled)

If you are going to OT an IRS car be prepared to get a diff cooler or plan on rebuilding the rear diff every so often.

As for me I'm looking for a less-expensive car (Mustang) to OT with no power adder and no IRS. Lighter weight would be good for brakes sake. Really want a '96-'98 Cobra or '03 Mach 1. Mach 1's are still kinda pricey though.

9746C

You think like me.:beer:

 

[CYAZ06]

Loran, Good to see you made it over here to svtperformance. This is where I post most of the time. We met at Hallett last year at the SVTOA event. I have read that the stock guages on the 99+ Mustangs are not as accurate as the older guages. Definately look into getting an aftermarket water temp guage. I have also read that the stock Eatons heat soak much worse with an aftermarket pulley. Have you tried swapping back to the stock pulley at the track to see how she runs? Shannon

Hey Shannon. Good to hear from you. I am getting a 2.93 pulley and doing a bunch of suggestions from this Forum. I think it was a combination of things. I really appreciate the great feedback. Are you coming down to TWS at the end of March?

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I've never had any fluid barf out of my rear end(except when I've eaten too much Mexican food):-D

I know quite a few guys in our SCMC club are running an IRS with no cooler also.

Now some could say... "Well Jimmy, you're just too damn slow!" oke: and they would probably be right, although Brian rode with me and he said I need to slow down a little bit(stock mushy suspension)...LOL!

I am running a TruTrack, which still makes heat but maybe not as much?

I know 03 Cobra Toy runs without a cooler (w/ trutrack) and he has not barfed gear oil either.... and we know he is NOT SLOW.

If I ever do barf gear lube... I am going to hook up a catch can so it doesn't get on the cat back and smoke causing me to get black flagged.

A nice side effect of that would also be no gear lube on the freaking track!!

..

 

[CYAZ06]

I've never had any fluid barf out of my rear end(except when I've eaten too much Mexican food):-D

I know quite a few guys in our SCMC club are running an IRS with no cooler also.

Now some could say... "Well Jimmy, you're just too damn slow!" oke: and they would probably be right, although Brian rode with me and he said I need to slow down a little bit(stock mushy suspension)...LOL!

I am running a TruTrack, which still makes heat but maybe not as much?

I know 03 Cobra Toy runs without a cooler (w/ trutrack) and he has not barfed gear oil either.... and we know he is NOT SLOW.

If I ever do barf gear lube... I am going to hook up a catch can so it doesn't get on the cat back and smoke causing me to get black flagged.

A nice side effect of that would also be no gear lube on the freaking track!!

..

Hey Jimmy. Good point. I haven't either, until my last event. At the end of the second day, I trailered my car home and noticed diff fluid on the trailer bed. It waspuking out of the vent tube. time for a catch can. what is a truetrac? similiar to a torsen diff?