The LS motors do fine without forged internals....
Coyote vs ls motor's
- Thread starter wtfMACH1?
- Start date
- Status
The LS motors do fine without forged internals....
True, but the widely agreed to max on the 3v's was 450ish, the internals on the Coyote are basically the same, just slightly more displacement.
I'm not sure exactly why the LS motors can make so much more without forged internals. I just think the 3v is a better comparison.
looks like this is gonna be a na motor..yayyy! wonder if you can make the intake into a short runner like the 4v's? did they say if it had anything like IMRC's? i bet if you deleted those it would help a bit
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2002
- Messages
- 9,444
This is going to be a motor for nitrous, no boost. But with the Ford owners most of them don't know what nitrous is and go straight for the Prochargers or Vortechs.
This is true Mod Max Rods and CP Pistons
I will run my YSI set up against a nitrous car any day
If the new 5.0 has a similar setup as the 3v's then the first thing you all better do is buy a set of Rods and Pistons cause the stock shit in a 3V is JUNK!!!!!!!
Honestly, nitrous is the lame way to go. it is fun for the track and whatnot, but anything that you have to refill other than the gas tank to make it "go" is lame.
with a supercharger or turbo, you can gain more power, better economy, and it's healthier on the engine.
Nitrous causes probs eventually, even on cars that are set up perfectly.
You can always change the heads when the blower is bolted on. that will lower the comp and give headroom for more boost.
these cars will cost money to modify no doubt, but at least they are coming from the factory with a great starting point and what they should have going out the door anyway. no more gimps.
The Mustang has always been my favorite car, but I lost interest when the mod motor first came out and the F bodies were spanking it left and right. It wasn't until the SVT Cobra that I though - great now we are on to something. but the Cobras were always more expensive and didn't really dominate - they sort of hung in there and just made it level. The Terminator came out and dominated a class that almost no longer existed at the time, so it was forced to compete with corvettes and vipers and twin turbo'd supras, etc - cars it was never meant to compete against - and it did very well. Now, the pony car wars have renewed and are heating up. ford looks ready to lay the smack down with a car that will outperform the Camaro and Challenger in every possible way. Not just in handling, but in braking and acceleration as well. This is a GOOD thing.
I would rather have a car with 412 hp from Ford than have to modify my weak engine just to MAKE 412 hp.
Now we have a good starting point. No doubt there will be heads, intakes, exhaust, et al, with appropriate tuning to dial it in and there will be much power to be had - enough to beat modified Camaros and Challengers. And for those needing to boost, that option will be there too.
Most of us guys reading this won't be content with stock anyway - or even a GT for that matter. For us, there will be the performance version (SVT, Shelby...) with forged internals meant to see power levels into the stratosphere. Ford could not make this much power with an N/A 4.6 and maintain regulations, but they can with the 5.0 and it has great gas mileage to boot. That means a more efficient design. it all adds up to being a good thing.
The LS3 doesn't impress really. I thought there would be much more power n/a from it, but I'm not seeing what is so great. The slayer package itself is good, but not great. For has produced a rockstar engine here and it really is deserving of its accolades. The aftermarket community for the Mustang is huge and for those wanting to mod, its just a matter of time.
with a supercharger or turbo, you can gain more power, better economy, and it's healthier on the engine.
Nitrous causes probs eventually, even on cars that are set up perfectly.
You can always change the heads when the blower is bolted on. that will lower the comp and give headroom for more boost.
these cars will cost money to modify no doubt, but at least they are coming from the factory with a great starting point and what they should have going out the door anyway. no more gimps.
The Mustang has always been my favorite car, but I lost interest when the mod motor first came out and the F bodies were spanking it left and right. It wasn't until the SVT Cobra that I though - great now we are on to something. but the Cobras were always more expensive and didn't really dominate - they sort of hung in there and just made it level. The Terminator came out and dominated a class that almost no longer existed at the time, so it was forced to compete with corvettes and vipers and twin turbo'd supras, etc - cars it was never meant to compete against - and it did very well. Now, the pony car wars have renewed and are heating up. ford looks ready to lay the smack down with a car that will outperform the Camaro and Challenger in every possible way. Not just in handling, but in braking and acceleration as well. This is a GOOD thing.
I would rather have a car with 412 hp from Ford than have to modify my weak engine just to MAKE 412 hp.
Now we have a good starting point. No doubt there will be heads, intakes, exhaust, et al, with appropriate tuning to dial it in and there will be much power to be had - enough to beat modified Camaros and Challengers. And for those needing to boost, that option will be there too.
Most of us guys reading this won't be content with stock anyway - or even a GT for that matter. For us, there will be the performance version (SVT, Shelby...) with forged internals meant to see power levels into the stratosphere. Ford could not make this much power with an N/A 4.6 and maintain regulations, but they can with the 5.0 and it has great gas mileage to boot. That means a more efficient design. it all adds up to being a good thing.
The LS3 doesn't impress really. I thought there would be much more power n/a from it, but I'm not seeing what is so great. The slayer package itself is good, but not great. For has produced a rockstar engine here and it really is deserving of its accolades. The aftermarket community for the Mustang is huge and for those wanting to mod, its just a matter of time.
The March MM&FF issue goes completly in depth on the new motor and it shares very little with a 4.6l they even said that the Cobras Manley Forged Rod will barely fit the new rotating assembly. You would have to be crazy to put a blower on that engine right out of the gate. The rods are basically the same as 3v and those are good for about 500 flywheel max. The new motor making 412hp at the flywheel with the highest flowing cylinder heads Ford has made (according to the MM&FF article), combined with even a small amount of boost will push it way past the 500 mark.
The LS3 is a great engine that responds well to boost and heads, cam and intake mods..Especially when you add long tubes to the mix. If your not that impressed with that motor your probably just looking at the performance of the new camaro. That car weighs about 3800 pounds with no rear gear options and 20's!!! of course its not going to run crazy numbers.
The LS3 is a great engine that responds well to boost and heads, cam and intake mods..Especially when you add long tubes to the mix. If your not that impressed with that motor your probably just looking at the performance of the new camaro. That car weighs about 3800 pounds with no rear gear options and 20's!!! of course its not going to run crazy numbers.
Really? You must be very hard to impress. Thunder Racing is making 500 REAR wheels horespower in their 2010 Camaro SS with heads and a cam and good driving characteristics. All that power comes a a cost of only $4,000 in parts.
How much more power were you expecting?
Everyone and their mother can get 550-600rwhp with a supercharger on the LS3. Thats pretty good.
What makes gas exempt from beying 'lame'? :banana:
Some Camaros with tvs kits aren't even making 500RWHP, Also with heads that flow better than AFRs for SBFs, 378ci, high compression pistions and what the LS world calls small cams (usually over 600 lift) its no wonder it can make that kind of power. Everyone thinks LS motors are so special, I've seen small blocks making the kind of power LS motors make for a long time. The big advantage for LS motors is that it was the first of its kind to be computer controlled and be so tunable. My last mustang had a 392ci SBF with iron Rousch heads, 10.5 compression and full roller valvetrain with a valve lift just over .600" the biggest difference was mine had a carb on it. I walked an LS1 with a cam in it BAD on the street. No doubt an LS3 would do better but I bet it wouldn't have beat me.
Change the heads!? To what!? :lol1:
Heads, intakes, cams!? For a brand new engine... The mod motor just recently saw the introduction of aftermarket heads, and that's only the weak ass 2v stuff. How long did it take to get that? 18 years! Does anything exist for the current 4v? No. And they're won't be for the new 5.0 either. There won't be a market for it.
The new engine is a great starting point. Too bad it won't go much further. It's at it's displacement limit - there are no other heads or cams within the same engine line that will swap over - and it's already got a decent induction system with what appears to be a decent set of headers. New owners will have a choice of mufflers and midpipes, or a very mild boost application. And it will be that way for a LONG time.
First of all, the only Ford Modular engine that could ever hold a candle to an LSx engine was the 03-04 Terminator Cobra engine.....
Here are the reasons why an LS motor is superior to a standard Modular:
-LSx motors can reliably take 700+rwhp on the stock bottom end, 450 is pushing it on a Mod.
-LSx motors are SIMPLE to work on...a cam costs $300-$400, 4 Cams for a DOHC Ford cost nearly $1600 + Installation is 4x more work because the entire engine must come out.
-LSx motor still have a significant displacement advantage over even a 5.0 Modular.
-LSx blocks have been reliably taken to 1000+rwhp and nobody has found the limit of the cranks yet. The only Ford comparables to this are the Cobra Cranks and Teksid blocks.
-LSx is more reliable due to less moving parts. OHC & DOHC is just more shit to break and work on.
This is coming from a die hard Ford fan for 10 years. Ive owned and personally worked on 3 Cobras (all making 500rwhp+ via boost). I just bought my first Corvette last month and I will NEVER look back, unless Ford brings back the pushrod 5.0s in an aluminum version.
My vette makes just as much power as my cobra's did...WITHOUT USING BOOST, and its faster (but thats not a fair comparison).
While, the Coyote is a step up, its still got crap internals and an over-engineered valvetrain. It will not hang with an LS without boost or nitrous...as usual
-Geoff
Here are the reasons why an LS motor is superior to a standard Modular:
-LSx motors can reliably take 700+rwhp on the stock bottom end, 450 is pushing it on a Mod.
-LSx motors are SIMPLE to work on...a cam costs $300-$400, 4 Cams for a DOHC Ford cost nearly $1600 + Installation is 4x more work because the entire engine must come out.
-LSx motor still have a significant displacement advantage over even a 5.0 Modular.
-LSx blocks have been reliably taken to 1000+rwhp and nobody has found the limit of the cranks yet. The only Ford comparables to this are the Cobra Cranks and Teksid blocks.
-LSx is more reliable due to less moving parts. OHC & DOHC is just more shit to break and work on.
This is coming from a die hard Ford fan for 10 years. Ive owned and personally worked on 3 Cobras (all making 500rwhp+ via boost). I just bought my first Corvette last month and I will NEVER look back, unless Ford brings back the pushrod 5.0s in an aluminum version.
My vette makes just as much power as my cobra's did...WITHOUT USING BOOST, and its faster (but thats not a fair comparison).
While, the Coyote is a step up, its still got crap internals and an over-engineered valvetrain. It will not hang with an LS without boost or nitrous...as usual
-Geoff
Are you serious? look how fast the aftermarket responded to the 05 mustang! I'm willing to bet stuff comes very quick.
First of all, the only Ford Modular engine that could ever hold a candle to an LSx engine was the 03-04 Terminator Cobra engine.....
Here are the reasons why an LS motor is superior to a standard Modular:
-LSx motors can reliably take 700+rwhp on the stock bottom end, 450 is pushing it on a Mod.
-LSx motors are SIMPLE to work on...a cam costs $300-$400, 4 Cams for a DOHC Ford cost nearly $1600 + Installation is 4x more work because the entire engine must come out.
-LSx motor still have a significant displacement advantage over even a 5.0 Modular.
-LSx blocks have been reliably taken to 1000+rwhp and nobody has found the limit of the cranks yet. The only Ford comparables to this are the Cobra Cranks and Teksid blocks.
-LSx is more reliable due to less moving parts. OHC & DOHC is just more shit to break and work on.
This is coming from a die hard Ford fan for 10 years. Ive owned and personally worked on 3 Cobras (all making 500rwhp+ via boost). I just bought my first Corvette last month and I will NEVER look back, unless Ford brings back the pushrod 5.0s in an aluminum version.
My vette makes just as much power as my cobra's did...WITHOUT USING BOOST, and its faster (but thats not a fair comparison).
While, the Coyote is a step up, its still got crap internals and an over-engineered valvetrain. It will not hang with an LS without boost or nitrous...as usual
-Geoff
I couldnt agree with you more... I was so dissapointed with my 05 Mustang GT 3V that I sold it and bought an 01 Z28 and I will never look back. The Ls motor is easy to work on, cheap to build and make power with every part you bolt on to it. You can even port and polish a stock throttle body and notice gains or put a cut out on the exhaust and pick up 10-15 rwhp.
First of all, the only Ford Modular engine that could ever hold a candle to an LSx engine was the 03-04 Terminator Cobra engine.....
Here are the reasons why an LS motor is superior to a standard Modular:
-LSx motors can reliably take 700+rwhp on the stock bottom end, 450 is pushing it on a Mod.
-LSx motors are SIMPLE to work on...a cam costs $300-$400, 4 Cams for a DOHC Ford cost nearly $1600 + Installation is 4x more work because the entire engine must come out.
-LSx motor still have a significant displacement advantage over even a 5.0 Modular.
-LSx blocks have been reliably taken to 1000+rwhp and nobody has found the limit of the cranks yet. The only Ford comparables to this are the Cobra Cranks and Teksid blocks.
-LSx is more reliable due to less moving parts. OHC & DOHC is just more shit to break and work on.
This is coming from a die hard Ford fan for 10 years. Ive owned and personally worked on 3 Cobras (all making 500rwhp+ via boost). I just bought my first Corvette last month and I will NEVER look back, unless Ford brings back the pushrod 5.0s in an aluminum version.
My vette makes just as much power as my cobra's did...WITHOUT USING BOOST, and its faster (but thats not a fair comparison).
While, the Coyote is a step up, its still got crap internals and an over-engineered valvetrain. It will not hang with an LS without boost or nitrous...as usual
-Geoff
Crap ass 2v PI motors make more than old push rod 5.0s. Also no LS motor makes 700 hp RELIABLY. Any 3v is just fine at 450RWHP. I think to many people belive to much of what they hear. LS motors and 3vs use the same materials for the bottom end so think about it. Some of this perception is probably because most LS guys go to cams and heads as some of their first mods and mustang guys usually go straight to boost. Now who is more likely to screw somthing up or blow a motor? I've have many friends who hate Fords and have LS motor and are only making 450ish at the wheels and are always worried that a rod or rod bolt will break and I've seen it happen. I don't know why but GM guys always seem to have more pride then mustang guys and always try to stretch the truth.
Yeah, look at all those cylinder head options! How about the cams? 5 years later and there are like 5 lobes - not that it matters anyway because cams don't do a damn thing for the mod motors. The only reason rotating assembly stuff is available is because it carried over from the earlier stuff. The aftermarket responded alright. With simple bolt-ons and couple mild boost applications.
Last edited:
The 5.4 4v is superior to the 4.6 4v so you really should at least include that in your list.
The idiocy in this thread is amazing. You guys are acting like this engine is made of glass. It is absolutely nothing like the old 3 or 2v and is a much better quality and will handle the power. IT has 11:1 compression, Who cares. That doesnt mean it wont handle f/i very well. It has a forged crank and high performance pistons and rods. With a good tune it doesn't matter that it has 11:1. Just fyi the ls3 has Hypereutectic pistons and rods and no forged crank and handles boost and nitrous very well.... And guess what?! It has 10.7:1 compression
Some of you guys (not all) really need to do some research instead of blowing shit out of your ass. And to whoever says nitrous is the lame way to go and tries to have a comment after that... well you just lost all credibility due to be uniformed and spitting out such an unintelligent comment.
:lol: 1. Previously yes I would agree, not now 2. It costs around $1000 to do a cam swap on a lsx motor 3. The new block is all aluminum and has a forged crank so this will handle the power just like the cobra's and 4th and final is the best... There is less moving parts in the modular motor and more technologically advanced that it is much better than any lsx motor period!
Im partial to ford yes but am I biased? Absolutely not!
This thread :nonono:
Some of you guys (not all) really need to do some research instead of blowing shit out of your ass. And to whoever says nitrous is the lame way to go and tries to have a comment after that... well you just lost all credibility due to be uniformed and spitting out such an unintelligent comment.
First of all, the only Ford Modular engine that could ever hold a candle to an LSx engine was the 03-04 Terminator Cobra engine.....
Here are the reasons why an LS motor is superior to a standard Modular:
-LSx motors can reliably take 700+rwhp on the stock bottom end, 450 is pushing it on a Mod.
-LSx motors are SIMPLE to work on...a cam costs $300-$400, 4 Cams for a DOHC Ford cost nearly $1600 + Installation is 4x more work because the entire engine must come out.
-LSx motor still have a significant displacement advantage over even a 5.0 Modular.
-LSx blocks have been reliably taken to 1000+rwhp and nobody has found the limit of the cranks yet. The only Ford comparables to this are the Cobra Cranks and Teksid blocks.
-LSx is more reliable due to less moving parts. OHC & DOHC is just more shit to break and work on.
This is coming from a die hard Ford fan for 10 years. Ive owned and personally worked on 3 Cobras (all making 500rwhp+ via boost). I just bought my first Corvette last month and I will NEVER look back, unless Ford brings back the pushrod 5.0s in an aluminum version.
My vette makes just as much power as my cobra's did...WITHOUT USING BOOST, and its faster (but thats not a fair comparison).
While, the Coyote is a step up, its still got crap internals and an over-engineered valvetrain. It will not hang with an LS without boost or nitrous...as usual
-Geoff
:lol: 1. Previously yes I would agree, not now 2. It costs around $1000 to do a cam swap on a lsx motor 3. The new block is all aluminum and has a forged crank so this will handle the power just like the cobra's and 4th and final is the best... There is less moving parts in the modular motor and more technologically advanced that it is much better than any lsx motor period!
Im partial to ford yes but am I biased? Absolutely not!
This thread :nonono:
- Status
Users who are viewing this thread
