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Discussion in 'New Edge Cobras' started by Badaz01, Feb 25, 2021.
Yea the bores are good. The broken pieces stayed in place until we pulled the pistons out.
looks like rings got very hot and expanded enough for the ring gap to disappear and the ends butted up against one another and this started the process of destruction... either that or the overheated rings got stuck in the lands and couldnt move at all.... thats what i think... (even though im no engine builder and nobody asked me.)
What do you think could’ve caused heat like that?
Just make ABSOLUTELY sure that the tune is nice and FAT and that ure intercooler or meth setup is COMPLETELY on point.... if its not... its possible to hurt even a built motor.... might wanna devise a way to keep an eye on IATs... but im sure the guys who build engines for a living will chime in soon........ just remember that the physical act of compressing air creates heat... the more boost u make, the hotter the intake temps gets. You had asked previously if e85 would make for a more reliable/street friendly setup.... but thast a complicated answer really. E85 of course has a cooling effect, but its not an end all be all safeguard against catastrophes... Truth be told.. the tune is everything. The leaner ure fuel mixture gets... the hotter it gets in the combustion chamber... a RICH tune will have a COOLING effect all by itself. Peopke tend to think they can lean on motors very very hard with 85(which is true)... AS LONG AS nothing goes even a LITTLE bit haywire. Just ONE bad tank of gas and ull be thanking the lord that u DIDNT push as hard as u could on that motor on e85... for a street car... i would go with 93 octane pump gas with a nice fat tune... stick a wideband on the car and a way to keep an eye on IAtemps... knowing what u know NOW... u know what happens to rings when they get superheated... and it goes without saying the same general rules apply with timing values also... I wouldnt push it tooo hard ... the margin for error gets smaller and smaller the harder u push... the best benefit of a built motor is its ROBUSTNESS IMHO... forged internals will tolerate a LITTLE misfire here and there.... as stock internals WILL NOT,,,, u know this now.
My sct handheld has intake temp on it is that what you are referring to as IAT. And my intercooler is the upgraded three core race offered by procharger. I may stay 93 still on the fence I could go back to the 3.8 procharger pulley and with the 8rib crank pulley I’d say I should be good on pump gas 93 to about 12 psi max. Does that sound about right. This would probably put me in the 550-600 rwhp mark and the hassle of testing e85 and all that wouldn’t be a worry.
yes... intake temps...IAT (Intake air temperature).... but where is the device taking that reading from? where in the intake? pre intercooler? post intercooler... good questions to ask.... because obviously intake temps got a lil out of hand.. this was a stock motor and had many many miles on it before u added the boost(presumably no issues before the boost). I mean.. its pretty cut and dried that a ring got stuck or the ring ends butted up against one another and started some carnage. thats exactly what isee... maybe an engine builder will see something else but to my untrained unscientific eye.... i cant unsee it.
The best forged internals won’t matter with a shit tune and piss poor cooling.
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at a minimum... i would insist that i was physically standing there while this beast was being tuned. I would wanna see how hot the intake air got while doing the high boost runs... even with the highest end build, ya gotta pull data from time to time to verify certain things, and obviously this car produces some pretty hot intake temps. Exactly why it got hot.... thats a conversation that the OP has to have with his builder... but on a positive note.. this happened on a stock motor, and now he knows what to look out for with the built motor. i would REALLY wanna see post intercooler temps. Even if god himself built the intercooler and god was tuning it.
On a semi-related story.. i have a 600hp motorcycle(bought from a member here)... i run 18pounds of boost on 93 octane though(400hp) with an ams2000BC... ive owned it 3 years, and ALOT of work went into this build.. and ALOT of dyno time went into it... Anyhow... since the day i owned it it was a BITCH to cold start... extremely hard to start and ive been through the ENTIRE electrical system.. i even spent almost 800 bucks on some dynatek coils and sending injectors out to be cleaned and flowed.... same problem... BUTTTTT... i pull ALOT of data from this bike... and sometimes i would notice that it would go VERY rich at the boost threshold(3500-4200 rpm)... but only SOMETIMES.... other times it does what it should.... i know this because i have a wego3 strapped to the bike(a standalone system with a bosch air/fuel sensor in the dump pipe.. gives live air/fuel reading).... always 11.5-1 airfuel in boost... nice and fat.... anyhow fast foward 2 years and it FINALLY stopped starting altogether... and i get a call from the builder and the primary injectors dont fire at all..... in a way i am relieved because this issue has been bugging me to no-end for a long time... everyone thought i was crazy though, as it made great power and was smooth more than 80 percent of the time........... all this time i have known what my datalogs tell me..... and anytime i run this bike hard... i always had my eyes glued to my wego to MAKE SURE the bike went rich when i would whack the throttle, because i had this crazy idea that there was something not quite right...... on the dyno the air/fuel looks like a damn arrow at 11.5to1... granted i thought it was a voltage issue where the coils wont fire at all if the coils dont see 10.8 volts or whatever voltage(i forgot).... whatever.... i was wrong and it wasnt voltage-related... but im not crazy anymore... that fuel rail wont spray ANY fuel anymore. Now it can be fixed, and the issue cant be ignored anymore.... datalogs dont lie.... and on a dyno... the bikes secondaries do exaclty what they should, and the bike makes crazy power... but when street ridden, i knew something was amiss, and became crazy with pulling data...... u might have an issue that nobody has found yet! thats why im not quick to condemn ure builder.... sometimes certain things can only be seen on a datalog over a period of time. and its important data... maybe the car developed a lazy injector! or maybe u got a weird voltage issue that caused havoc......... pulling data would reveal these things... its a good conversation to have with your builder without being accusatory or insulting.
My tuner welcomes me to be by his side every time my car is on the dyno. We are doing the head cooling mod and tuning for e85 along with my three core intercooler that should run fairly cool I may put heat extractor in my hood. And as far as the heat in cylinders it most likely didn’t take much to get to those hypertuetectic tight clearanced pistons especially being cast like they are with all that silicon content in them. The only thing we haven’t done is oil pump gears I hear a mixed bag about those. Some say do em others say stock is fine idk.
yes... sounds bulletproof... disregard everything i said... should cool just fine.
I appreciate every bit of advice and experience I get on here that’s how I learn. I never disregard good experience/input thanks for sharing.
u asked me what could have caused the extreme heat that stuck a ring and started the process of ruiniation.. I offered my opinion. Nobody has an alternate explantion... forged pistons or not... thiose rings cant get that hot again... the tune has to be fixed, and a close eye has to be kept on IATs... if the temps get out of control again.. ull end up with another hurt motor, and another dodgy explanation as to why it happened to good forged pistons. While the car is apart... a good builder would wanna be 100 percent sure the injectors are clean and functioning like they should(make sure there isnt a lazy injector or 2.).. specifically those 2 cylinders with the hurt pistons.... make sure those 2 cylinders have GOOD spark and GOOD fuel... this will save you thousands of dollars.. just due diligence on those 2 suspect cylinders witht he hurt pistons.
I’m goin next week to get the injectors checked out as well as the coils to rule out any failure there. I watch my gushes obsessively the whole time I drive boost fuel pressure intake and coolant temps. Never pulled the car when the coolant temps got close to 208-210 and my intake temps were usually give or take a little of what the temps are outside. I’m gonna do my best to cover all my bases definitely don’t want to do this again any time soon. On another note I’m getting my valve cover powder coated black and coil cover white. My motor and heads are about a week and a half out from returning from the machine shop so hopefully things will go good and I can throw about 6 to 700 ponies to the pavement and ride off into the sunset.
that was the first pull we did it shows afr. Not really sure about all that stuff being a newb and all.
request a printout of the targeted gas scale stochio.... air/fuel ... while conducting the dyno pull..... tell him u want to have proof of power/build in case u ever wanna sell it...
Got my valve covers back the other day. Had them redone with a fresh powder coat. It’s been a while but I’m still in the process with my engine. Everything is machined and honed decked etc… Had the heads refreshed and just awaiting reassembling. Hoping to get a few pulls in before winter. Can’t wait to see what 650+rwhp feels like. Oh and also while I’ve been waiting I decided to order the lethal performance return style fuel system and a Mellings oil pump. Not sure if I’m gonna do a pro5.0 or mgw shifter with the t56 yet.
Do any of you guys have experience with kings bearings and if the ones I got will be ok for my application which is mostly street. CR868HPNSTDX That is the part number thanks in advance.
That part number is for connecting rod bearings. Main bearings of the same series would be M5283HPSTDX.
Edit: The M5281SI bearings are also an option.
Ok are those ok for high performance street application. The only reason for asking is because I read up on the and they say high rpm drag race but then it also states they are good for road race idk just want to be sure this thing is correct before it gets bolted back together.