'14 Brembo Upgrades? or BBK? Anyone?

[gcassidy]

For about 4 years I ran DTC70(ft)/DTC60 (rear) and loved them.
But pads are like beer, everyone has their favorites.

 

[dmichaels]

For about 4 years I ran DTC70(ft)/DTC60 (rear) and loved them.
But pads are like beer, everyone has their favorites.

This seems to be very true. Different driving styles match up with different pads.

I was on the Pagid train, but got some good deals on other pads so I'm trying them out.

Good that you liked the Hawks, I hope I have the same experience.

 

[Five.Oh]

Well I went out last night with my cousin and we decided to do some brake tests using my Track Apps and I figured I would share the results and then look back at the results to compare after I change my brake set up. Tests where done with the brakes warmed up.

Was simply done on the highway. Conditions where clear and dry but a little cold being only 14 degrees C or 57ish degrees F

60 - 0

2.6s
113ft
1.12G

100 - 0

4.5s
330ft
1.20G

It feels like the rear brakes just are not doing anything. The rotor condition says they are working hard but I do not think they are a sufficient size to keep braking in a good balance with the big brembos up front. Has any one changed there rears up and notice a notable difference?

 

[ac427cobra]

It feels like the rear brakes just are not doing anything.

It feels like your rear brakes are not doing anything simply because they are not! The big Brembos up front are doing the majority of the work stopping your car. This is why I developed the 13" rear kit for SN-95 vehicles after I upgraded to the 14" front Brembo brakes on my 2000 Cobra R:

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/FT_7000A.htm

Then when I got my 2007 Shelby GT 500 I had to do the same thing because the OEM rear brakes on that car were the same brakes that came on a V-6 auto grocery getter. They simply lagged too far behind the performance of the 14" front Brembos.:

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/What's New.htm#S-197_13in_rear_floating_conversion_kit

Has any one changed there rears up and notice a notable difference?

Yes there was a significant difference in the way these two cars stopped after converting the under performing rear brakes to 13" conversion kits. No brake bias adjuster was required mainly because the rear brakes were under performing so significantly.

:beer:

 

[Five.Oh]

OK, Ill bite. Has any one compared the difference in this 13 inch kit to the '13/'14 Shelby rear disc upgrades for our cars ?

 

[ac427cobra]

OK, Ill bite. Has any one compared the difference in this 13 inch kit to the '13/'14 Shelby rear disc upgrades for our cars ?

Not that I am aware of. The '13-'14 Shelby rear brakes were stepped up to 330mm (13.78") diameter because the front brakes were stepped up to 380mm (15"). IMHO the 330mm rear brakes would be a little excessive with a 355mm (14") front kit.

Not to mention the fact that the 330mm rear OEM rotors weigh over 16# each:

and our Full Tilt Boogie Racing 13" rear 2 pc. rotor weighs 11.54#:

That is a difference of over 9# of rotating mass and unsprung weight savings for the pair of 13" Full Tilt Boogie Racing rotors as compared to the OEM 13.78" one pc. rotors.

 

[Five.Oh]

995.00 13" kit from Full tilt boogie racing
369.00 13.8" kit from Vorshlag

I will say 4.5lbs unsprung weight to save per corner is quite a lot but the 626.00 dollars between the two kits is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Five.Oh]

Hope we can work out a discount if I locally rep your product

 

[Bingo13]

995.00 13" kit from Full tilt boogie racing
369.00 13.8" kit from Vorshlag

I will say 4.5lbs unsprung weight to save per corner is quite a lot but the 626.00 dollars between the two kits is a tough pill to swallow.

You are also comparing a one piece OEM rotor against a full floating two piece rotor setup designed for track work. It is a price delta but after using Bruce's FTHD kits on both SN95 and S197 track cars I would never go back to the OEM setups, been there, done that and wasted money thinking I was saving money.

 

[Five.Oh]

You are also comparing a one piece OEM rotor against a full floating two piece rotor setup designed for track work. It is a price delta but after using Bruce's FTHD kits on both SN95 and S197 track cars I would never go back to the OEM setups, been there, done that and wasted money thinking I was saving money.

Thanks for the input I will keep that in mind. Just the 600 dollar difference is hard to justify for the rear rotors. The full tilt boogie racing rears do look like quality.

 

[ac427cobra]

Just to give you a couple of examples of the difference in price between one piece cast rotors and two piece floating rotor assemblies, here are two examples:

Ford OEM 14" front one piece Brembo rotors (2007-12 Shelby, Boss 302) list for $366.00 for the pair. The two piece Ford Racing 14" Brembo floating rotor set M-1125-MSVT14 lists for $1,495.00 for the pair:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=23336

That is a $1,129.00 difference.


Ford OEM 15" front one piece Brembo rotors (2013-14 Shelby) list for $343.54 for the pair. The two piece Ford Racing 15" Brembo floating rotor set M-1125-MSVT15 lists for $1,595.00 for the pair:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=23334

That is a $1,251.46 difference.



Some food for thought.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[Steveespo]

You will find that spending $4-500 a rotor gets tired fast and that OEM rotors are the best bet for durability, performance and economy. I run the '13 GT 500 package with Carbotech XP24/12 pads with Castrol SRF fluid, Ford Racing cooling kit and the Ford Racing -CA ABS module. Peak - g I have seen with this is -1.35. Advantage of the 15" setup is cost, pad size and rotor mass for heat dissipation. Disadvantage is weight. I get on average 12 hours on a set of front pads and twice that with the rotors, I have the rotors surface cut when I change the pads. Rear pads last only 6 hours, this is because the ABS module and rotor size increase rear brake proportion and torque, but the pads are still stock puny size. I pay $227 for pair of front rotors and $152 for the rears at Tousley Ford with $7.95 flat rate shipping when ordering on Fordparts.com, very hard to beat that especially for a hobby track rat. Pads are $310 front and $170 rear a set at KNS Brakes. You will not find much lap time spending $1500 more for rotors, best way to use that money is for a racing school day, next best is for more track time, this is where you will pick up lap time. Me I would spend it on engine mods because I'm stupid like that.

If you plan on being a serious competition driver then look to Brembo, AP, or Alcon for real high end caliper and rotor setups, but bring $6-7000 to buy in.
Good luck with whichever path you choose and let us know how they work.
Steve

 

[Jabooh1]

What about DBA 4000 T3 rotors for a street and occasional track car?

 

[Steveespo]

They are fine, but cost about 75% more than Ford OEM rotors. Once again the cost to benefit ratio is something you have to consider for yourself. I don't think there is much if any weight savings, slots are nice to have though.
Steve

 

[Five.Oh]

You will find that spending $4-500 a rotor gets tired fast and that OEM rotors are the best bet for durability, performance and economy. I run the '13 GT 500 package with Carbotech XP24/12 pads with Castrol SRF fluid, Ford Racing cooling kit and the Ford Racing -CA ABS module. Peak - g I have seen with this is -1.35. Advantage of the 15" setup is cost, pad size and rotor mass for heat dissipation. Disadvantage is weight. I get on average 12 hours on a set of front pads and twice that with the rotors, I have the rotors surface cut when I change the pads. Rear pads last only 6 hours, this is because the ABS module and rotor size increase rear brake proportion and torque, but the pads are still stock puny size. I pay $227 for pair of front rotors and $152 for the rears at Tousley Ford with $7.95 flat rate shipping when ordering on Fordparts.com, very hard to beat that especially for a hobby track rat. Pads are $310 front and $170 rear a set at KNS Brakes. You will not find much lap time spending $1500 more for rotors, best way to use that money is for a racing school day, next best is for more track time, this is where you will pick up lap time. Me I would spend it on engine mods because I'm stupid like that.

If you plan on being a serious competition driver then look to Brembo, AP, or Alcon for real high end caliper and rotor setups, but bring $6-7000 to buy in.
Good luck with whichever path you choose and let us know how they work.
Steve

Good advice, Thanks for the input. That brings the question to mind of how my factory ABS module will deal with a set of track compound pads?

 

[Steveespo]

Factory ABS works fine but gets a little intrusive with sticky tires and comes on a little too abrupt and hard at the limit. This probably lengthens stopping distances a little. The Race module does a fe things, disables all TC and Advance Track features, like zero. Lights up every brake and Advance track warning light and message you have, a little annoying. It adds more rear brake proportion at the limit, this adds heat and wear to the rear pads but aids in trail braking. Finally ABS intervention is much more subtle, it seems like there is a higher resolution between off and on, I feel small pulsations at the limit vs. the hard abrupt hit of the stock unit. All in all I would use this if you use the car primarily for track duty, if your car is mostly street I can't tell you how it will perform on really bumpy surfaces or in snow or ice. Hopefully others can chime in on the subject.
Steve

 

[14GTBrembo]

For some reason the stock Brembo rotors would not work well with my Carbotech XP10 pads. Hot spots and vibrations. Went with Stop Tech Cryo treated rotors and all is well. I think they were about $150 each. Carbotech pads are great. XP8 on the rear with the GT 500 rotors. You can go to the Ford dealer and buy the caliper brackets and rotors - I got a good discount and it was cheaper than the kits. That set up has worked great. My .02 for what it is worth. Oh, and cooling is a must!

The XP10s squeal like an old bus on the street so I will use the so called Bobcats in between events.

 

[Bingo13]

Good advice, Thanks for the input. That brings the question to mind of how my factory ABS module will deal with a set of track compound pads?

The factory ABS is fine until you go to full race pads and tires, at which time you might want to think about the race module (if you are dedicating the car to track use only) and several other changes. This is what worked great for us on our cars. We were taught to be extremely frugal with the brakes and to only use them to set the car up to close distance in the corners, so our experiences with pad/rotor replacements are usually much different than others.

You have not really discussed what tires you are using as that makes a real difference in the brake setup. We are in the advanced group in HPDE so we do not have dedicated track cars since our cars spend several days a week on the street so nothing too exotic for us. We either run Yoko AD08R (cold/wet) or Nitto NT01s (dry/hot) so nothing extreme on the rubber side and it determined our braking setups.

This is what works extremely well for us with the OEM Brembo setup -
1. FTBR brake cooling ducts along with some really nice silicone hose Bruce sold us on the side plus Shelby GT ducts we had modified at a local body shop to fit the stock lower grill.
2. FTBR FT9108HD - Front two piece rotors (move the new car to the FT9120HD shortly) that have 10 events on them and still not even close to replacing them. Similar cars in our group have already replaced the stock or Centric rotors two or three times. Based on our driving technique this has been money well spent.
3. FTBR FT9600 - Rear 13" upgrade with two piece floating rotors. This was probably one of the best braking upgrades we did on the car after the cooling ducts, fluid, and lines package, which is required anyway. This really settled down the rear end under hard braking when needed, balanced out the front/rear under normal braking conditions and greatly improved trail braking capabilities. Also replaced the rear calipers as added insurance as both cars had normal miles plus a few events on them.
4. GT500 Brake Booster - Incredible change in brake pedal effort and if nothing else inspires a certain amount of confidence due to much better modulation.
5. SS lines and appropriate brake fluid - In the end we moved to the Castrol SRF after noticing the cost to replace the Motul RBF600/660 after every other event was greater than spending the money up front.
6. Based on tire choice, track layouts in Texas, brake booster and rear rotor upgrades we ended being able to run the Carbotech XP10/XP8 setup without any issues. We tried more aggressive pad combos (DTC70/DTC60; XP12/XP10, etc) but they were not really needed based on our driving technique on the tracks here (MSR-C, MSR-H, TWS, COTA, Hallet, Eagles Canyon) and I think that has also played a big part in the longevity of the rotors.
7. Your mileage will vary based on all these factors. But the minimum I would do is cooling, lines, fluid, power booster and rear rotor upgrade and then determine what is best for you on rotors and pads based on tires, driving technique and budget.

 

[Charlington]

Do the Race Modules know if you are turning and apply more brake to the inside rear (less to outside front?) or strictly Front and Rear?

 

[Jabooh1]

Is it too much of a hassle to go back and forth on ABS modules?