1997 Cobra Tuning Questions / Suggetions!!

[J-Betschart]

Hello all, wanted to make a quick post on some stuff I have been looking up for the better half of the day.
I have had this 97 cobra build going for the last 10 year or longer. Lots of growing up and life getting in the way.
Finishing up a different project right now (Kenne Bell 2v). And wanted to get it out of the garage to start finishing up the little that my 97 has left.

My cobra build consist of
9:1 billet oliver rods, venolia pistons
C head swap from a 99 cobra with 96-98 cobra intake cams and pac springs
Mach 1 intake with a accufab monoblade TB
Glenns performance triple 255 walbro set up
ID100's
Pro Turbo Kit with a single Precision 76/75. Originally bought a Billet S476R but at the time I had no idea how dang big that thing was! It will take a lot of fab to get it to fit so a nice 76/75 for simplicity!
All through a T56.
Pump gas set up 12 PSI on the wastegate , will go up from there obviously if all looks well!!
Not a wild build by any means.

Now when I got this car it had a F1A on it . DIdnt have it for more than a week before it lost oil pressure at the time. When i spoke to the person he said it never ran quite like it should.
Either way I tore it all apart and started over.

Now that I am finishing up this build , I am wondering if I should attempt to re use the old ignition set up and tuning via sct device or if I should upgrade.
It has a MSD Dis 4 ignition set up that makes the wiring harness look "interesting"
I was wondering if this was the issue they had in the past, have read lots of issues with the DIS 4 ignition set up. More negative ones than good ones but I am not sure.

Anyways the main reason for this thread originally was to get your guys advice on tuning.
The terminator x and Dominator stuff look great but man I am against any sort of aftermarket dash. I personally dont like the way they look and they will look incredibly dated in a few years when these things are really a classic.

Thats what lead me to the newer MS3 PnP set up which is what I am leaning towards. Retains everything!!
I have a Pimp engine management set up for a 2.3T fox I am building as well which is basically the same as the Megasquirt so it will be a bit easier learning for both vehicles I assume.

Now I am seeing the MS3 PnP set up for $1500 for basically just the ecu....while as the Holley set up and Pro M set up is $1800 with out additions but it comes with a full wiring harness to replace the factory one.

Am I missing something? I always heard the MS3 is quite a bit cheaper than going with a Holley stand alone?

 

[2003RedfireVert]

If this were my car it would get a Holley. A lot of support for tuning. Easy install. Very customizable…I get the dash preference you have but, me personally, I would get over it quickly knowing I had a good ECU with a lot of support behind it.

A lot of guys run the MS3 and love it. It’s obviously a good option. @01yellercobra likes his. There are others too.

My vote is Holley but I’m a nobody.

Also, post some pictures of your build.

 

[01yellercobra]

Just my opinion....

I would definitely go stand alone over stock ECU with what you have. I'm pretty sure any of them can drive a set of LS coils. Which I would imagine is a step up from what you have. @96dreamer would be a good resource for that.

I went MS3 because I wanted to keep my stock dash. So far it's done everything I've asked of it. The plug and play is a little limited on inputs, but that's nothing an expansion card can't take care of. Of course that also depends on what you want to do with it. I'd hit up some dealers about the pricing. When I bought my MS3 it was listed at $1400 and I can tell you I didn't pay anywhere near that for mine. As for support, there's a forum for it and any time I've emailed them I've had a response within a day. The only "better" one I've ran into is Haltech and that's because they seem to be available 24 hours due to time differences and they're set up to remote in quickly if needed.

While I don't have any personal experience with the Holley, I've been researching it as I have a buddy that is planning on running it on his fox eventually and he wants me to tune it. Honestly, I wouldn't run one in my car. The dash aside, the two things I don't like are that it can't run a MAF and the accel enrichment seems overly complicated. The MAF thing is personal preference as I know a lot of people are excited to ditch it. But IMO it makes tuning a lot easier as you don't have to mess with air temp and altitude compensations. And in cases like mine with driving 300 plus miles over different elevations it's just one less thing I have to worry about. Holley has 3 different tables for doing accel enrichment which I'm still not sure why. But I'm sure it made sense to someone.

Look up Joe Simpson on YouTube. He mainly tunes with Holley and is really good. I actually bought his online course for tuning even though it's not for Megasquirt. But a lot of the stuff carries over to the other ECU's.

 

[03cobra#2]

I went MS3 to keep the stock gauge cluster as well, it's been a great expierence for me.

That being said, at this point I am very interested in doing a digital dash. The configurations are endless, you can ditch all the cockpit gauges for a nice clean interior look.

When I had my old combo (whipple 3.4, E85) I took it to a local dyno to have it tuned. The tuner said I'm in the endeof the stock ecu and I could really benefit from a aftermarket ECU. At the time I'm like OK, sure. Car runs great and tons of guys making big power on the stock ecu. Now that I've done the switch only regret is not doing it sooner.

 

[03cobra#2]

This is why I would go digital dash now.

I was so stuck on keeping the factory cluster but I think this will be my 2024 project.

 

[01yellercobra]

This is why I would go digital dash now.

I was so stuck on keeping the factory cluster but I think this will be my 2024 project.

Are you designing that yourself?

 

[03cobra#2]

Where did you find that? I was just wishing not too long ago I was smart enough to program a digital dash to look like the stocker.

DD-EFI on Facebook.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[01yellercobra]

DD-EFI on Facebook.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not on facebook. But I'm really interested in that dash.

 

[96dreamer]

I'm not on facebook. But I'm really interested in that dash.

They have a website too. The developers of dd-efi dash are part of the group that just bought diy autotune as well so it's a safe assumption the digital dash will continue to work seamlessly with ms3

 

[01yellercobra]

They have a website too. The developers of dd-efi dash are part of the group that just bought diy autotune as well so it's a safe assumption the digital dash will continue to work seamlessly with ms3

My buddy sent me the link shortly after I showed him that dash. I now have it book marked. I think one of the perks with this is I can store my rare stock dash away for safe keeping.

 

[J-Betschart]

Just wanted to thank all of you for your input.
Been having a hell of time figuring out which way I want to tackle this.
I have never seen that factory looking digital dash. That by far the best digital one I have seen and would be very much interested in that.

I am really leaning towards the MS3 set up, mainly for the factory set up still. Although we all know how things change.
Also I feel like with me having a PIMP set up for my 2.3 Turbo fox which is almost identical to the ms3 software or so I am thinking. I am thinking it will help me out getting each one up and running and learning to tune with them.


03Cobra, you mentioned it ran good and made a lot of power but went ms3 and only regret was not doing it sooner.
What makes you say that? I have read that several other places as well. But not sure what would make it that much better?

01yellercobra I never did think about the MAF being a viable option, I just figured Id get rid of and not look back but what you are saying makes a lot of sense.
Also I looked up Joe Simpson, he has a TON of good videos on everything holley. Talks it up so much it makes me want one of those too haha

Sadly I really dont have many pictures of this car, it went down very shortly after getting it 11 or 12 years ago and has been a VERY slow turn around to where it is now. I will see if I can dig some up though.

 

[96dreamer]

I meant to reply to this more in depth earlier this week just been super busy. I've been very happy with my ms3 pro ultimate. I'm not running the pnp however. I started my install a few months before they announced the pnp for our platform.

It does everything I could want with room to grow and I'm sure I have already broke even on the initial cost vs what it would cost to take to a Tuner for every change.

I'm running mine with a novi 2000 using a wastegate as a boost controller, dual canbus widebands, dual knock sensors, ls2 d585 coils, oil pressure/ temp, fuel pressure, fan and fuel pump pwm controlled, flex fuel sensor and driving all but the factory tach in the oem cluster. Keeping the factory cluster was something I wasn't willing to budge on. The digital dash is super clean but I still prefer the factory gauge. I also have an android double din hooked up via USB to the ms3 so I can run shadowdash on it with whatever gauges I want.

I think any of the standalones will do anything for 95%of the builds out there. Holley definitely advertises more so you see there stuff more prominently. I don't know that it necessarily does anything much better than Ms but I don't have any first hand experience either.

 

[03cobra#2]

Just wanted to thank all of you for your input.
Been having a hell of time figuring out which way I want to tackle this.
I have never seen that factory looking digital dash. That by far the best digital one I have seen and would be very much interested in that.

I am really leaning towards the MS3 set up, mainly for the factory set up still. Although we all know how things change.
Also I feel like with me having a PIMP set up for my 2.3 Turbo fox which is almost identical to the ms3 software or so I am thinking. I am thinking it will help me out getting each one up and running and learning to tune with them.


03Cobra, you mentioned it ran good and made a lot of power but went ms3 and only regret was not doing it sooner.
What makes you say that? I have read that several other places as well. But not sure what would make it that much better?

01yellercobra I never did think about the MAF being a viable option, I just figured Id get rid of and not look back but what you are saying makes a lot of sense.
Also I looked up Joe Simpson, he has a TON of good videos on everything holley. Talks it up so much it makes me want one of those too haha

Sadly I really dont have many pictures of this car, it went down very shortly after getting it 11 or 12 years ago and has been a VERY slow turn around to where it is now. I will see if I can dig some up though.

Reasons are, the saftey systems are a great idea, traction control is so much better, idle and drivability is so much better, running flex fuel is so great too. Also I was surprised to see my power curve move up as well. All good things.

 

[I_like_turtlez]

Not to hijack thread but why swap to New Edge C-heads over B's? The 99-01 Cobra made the exact same power output as the 96-98(both underrated BHP quite a bit)

What's the benefits

 

[J-Betschart]

I really appreciate the advice and insight you guys have on your set ups. From the looks of it, the MS3 will do everything I want it to do and then some. I am a beginner at all of this so there will be a steep learning curve!

My cobra is very clean and relatively low mileage , that is why im not willing to budge on the digital dash. At least for now, we all know how things can change.

I do like the holley and everything it offers, looks a bit easier to navigate as well for a simpletun like myself

That being said, I do have several cars so if I am not satisfied with the MS3, I will do a holley set up on one of the others.
Only draw back I am seeing right now is it looked like the MS3 has doubled in price and nearly as much as a termi x but it comes with no wiring harness.
So I will have to do some shopping and see what someone is willing to do on one.

 

[J-Betschart]

Not to hijack thread but why swap to New Edge C-heads over B's? The 99-01 Cobra made the exact same power output as the 96-98(both underrated BHP quite a bit)

What's the benefits

I had a set of ported B heads on here before I lost my oil pressure. One of the first places that lose oil is in the head , and it shot the cam tower and cams that were in it.

At the same time My friend was taking his 99 cobra apart to put a mach 1 engine in there. I snagged up the Heads and the intake off of him.

C heads have better mid range, they dont need IMRC to make up for the lack of down low power. They are all around a better head.

That being said, if my plan was just to turbo it and my other heads had survived I would not have swapped to the C heads.

There are a ton more intake options for the C heads and one of the biggest reasons is If I wanted to put any blower from a Termi I.e. Kenne bell, whipple VMP etc. I can do that now with the C heads

 

[J-Betschart]

Also, post some pictures of your build.

 

[J-Betschart]

Couple more shots of how it currently is until I get a ECU for her.
Hate keeping it outside but space is limited. Was inside for the majority of the time but I have other projects that need time too!!!!

 

[01yellercobra]

If what I'm reading about the Terminator X is correct, it's a lower model than the MS3. The X does have a built in wideband, but it's only one and you'll want two with your set up. Yeah, you'll have to buy external widebands with the MS3, but you can pick what you want to that way.

The built in MAP sensor is only good for 15psi. You need an external sensor when you want to turn up the boost. The internal sensor on the MS3 can handle 44psi.

I didn't see a CAN Bus listed on the Terminator X. I did see a module you could add for it. The MS3 has a CAN Bus built in. It's an easy way to add a lot of extra stuff.

Food for thought.

 

[03cobra#2]

I'm sure the MS3 will be great for what you are doing.

I am chuckling a bit on your stance with the digital dash. When I upgraded my ecu I'm like yup, clean low mile 03 cobra that I don't want to change the look on. Then I realized that the stock tach doesn't respond quick enough and once you get above 5k rpm you literally don't know what rpm you're at lol. I mean I am still running the stock cluster but digital is really the way to go.

Looks like a really fun project, good luck to you.