5.4L vs. 5.0L at same boost :(

[F8L SN8K]

the boss 302 has hypereutectic pistons and powder forged rods, just like the base GT 5.0l(albeit stronger versions).

People are seeming to become confused on Rotating assmemblies.

GT500
Forged Piston
Sinter forged cracked cap powdered metal rods(Different design "beefier")
Forged crank.

Boss 302
Forged Piston
Sinter forged cracked cap powder metal rods(Different design "beefier")
Forged crank

GT
Hypereutectic(cast) Pistons
Sinter forged cracked cap powder metal rods
Forged Crank

The GT heads flow 4% better throughout the lift range. That may not sound like much but at 300cfm 4% is fair difference. Smaller port volume and increased velocity

 

[F8L SN8K]

All numbers from a super-flow 600 @28 in on a 3.630 stock bore. Exhaust flow with a 1 3/4 inch pipe and standard comp. valve job more flow to come w/valve job testing.

stock heads

Lift intake ex

.100 49.4 32.1

.200 180.2 147.8

.300 243.5 180

.400 280.0 189.7

.500 289.4 201.4

.600 298.4 207.7

 

[Kewlv8]

People are seeming to become confused on Rotating assmemblies.

GT500
Forged Piston
Sinter forged cracked cap powdered metal rods(Different design "beefier")
Forged crank.

Boss 302
Forged Piston
Sinter forged cracked cap powder metal rods(Different design "beefier")
Forged crank

GT
Hypereutectic(cast) Pistons
Sinter forged cracked cap powder metal rods
Forged Crank

The GT heads flow 4% better throughout the lift range. That may not sound like much but at 300cfm 4% is fair difference. Smaller port volume and increased velocity

The Boss is quite nice, and much more than just a sticker and suspension package. It will be a nice platform on which to add boost. Heck, some manufacturers (we won't name any names ;-)) won't even add forged pistons to their factory boosted cars.....:??:


:-D

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

People are seeming to become confused on Rotating assmemblies.

GT500
Forged Piston
Sinter forged cracked cap powdered metal rods(Different design "beefier")
Forged crank.

Boss 302
Forged Piston
Sinter forged cracked cap powder metal rods(Different design "beefier")
Forged crank

GT
Hypereutectic(cast) Pistons
Sinter forged cracked cap powder metal rods
Forged Crank

The GT heads flow 4% better throughout the lift range. That may not sound like much but at 300cfm 4% is fair difference. Smaller port volume and increased velocity

doh! yea, had the GT on the brain, the boss gets the forged slugs.
one thing to note, thought both the boss and GT500 have stronger PM rods, i don't look for the boss pieces to be as strong as the GT500 pieces, simply because ford eson't need to put rods that strong in them.

i can't wait till someone gets ahold of those CNC-ported boss 302 heads and see what they put down!

The Boss is quite nice, and much more than just a sticker and suspension package. It will be a nice platform on which to add boost. Heck, some manufacturers (we won't name any names ;-)) won't even add forged pistons to their factory boosted cars.....:??:


:-D

cast pistons or not, so far they are holding up to what guys are throwing at them. remember when those crappy GT500 rods weren't going to hold as much power as 03/04 engines? yea;-)

 

[F8L SN8K]

RPM kills rods much faster then anything and is number 1 cause of failure. Cylinder pressure is not the biggest factor in Connecting rod failure. That doesn't mean that there hasnt been failure/bent rods due to excessive cylinder pressure but other items tend to give out before that point.

 

[mullens]

Agree RPM kills rods. It's the pulling action of the rod on the wrist pin at high RPM that breaks them. Excessive cylinder pressure normally will blow head gaskets or possibly stretch head bolts before the rods break.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

while that's obviously right, it didn't matter to the terminator fanboys raping this forum with their bullshit right before/when the shelbys came out.
even so, it doesn't mean that PM rods can hold unlimited power if you keep the RPMs in check. they still won't handle as much as a drop forged rod.

 

[200MPHCOBRA]

Look at the bright side, when the boosted 5.4 gives way to the boosted 5.0 in the Shelby sometime in the future, we should see a nice increase in power.

 

[Kewlv8]

d

cast pistons or not, so far they are holding up to what guys are throwing at them. remember when those crappy GT500 rods weren't going to hold as much power as 03/04 engines? yea;-)

Not sure what car you are referring too as 'holding up'? Yes, the LSA and Cast 5.0 will 'hold up' to 600Rwhp. Neither will 'hold up' to 750Rwhp, which is the target for 5.4 owners that go larger than a 2.3L. So the argument is relative to your HP target. Also, detonation is the more frequent enemy, and is not related to a power level. Detonation has more to do with Tune, CR, gas quality. I would not feel comfortable boosting and tuning a NON-Forged piston for that reason alone, whether my target was 500HP or 900HP.

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

Look at the bright side, when the boosted 5.4 gives way to the boosted 5.0 in the Shelby sometime in the future, we should see a nice increase in power.

Don't count on it. I'm sure a factory boosted 5.0 won't be running 11.1 compression

A better test would have been to show the limits of each on pump gas and then race gas, not just compare power at the same psi and then just running whatever gas is needed to run 12, 15 and 18 psi on the stock 5.0.

 

[Kewlv8]

don't count on it. I'm sure a factory boosted 5.0 won't be running 11.1 compression

qft

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

Not sure what car you are referring too as 'holding up'? Yes, the LSA and Cast 5.0 will 'hold up' to 600Rwhp. Neither will 'hold up' to 750Rwhp, which is the target for 5.4 owners that go larger than a 2.3L. So the argument is relative to your HP target. Also, detonation is the more frequent enemy, and is not related to a power level. Detonation has more to do with Tune, CR, gas quality. I would not feel comfortable boosting and tuning a NON-Forged piston for that reason alone, whether my target was 500HP or 900HP.

and you know the HP limits of the LSA from your extensive experience with the engine i'm assuming? yea, nevermind those 700+RWHP stock short block CTS-Vs running 10s at full weight

 

[CPRsm]

Agree RPM kills rods. It's the pulling action of the rod on the wrist pin at high RPM that breaks them. Excessive cylinder pressure normally will blow head gaskets or possibly stretch head bolts before the rods break.

Yep. The exhaust stroke. That's also why turbo motors generally go a little farther with the same components. The back pressure in the exh helps relieve some of that stress.

 

[Kewlv8]

and you know the HP limits of the LSA from your extensive experience with the engine i'm assuming? yea, nevermind those 700+RWHP stock short block CTS-Vs running 10s at full weight

How do you get a LSA to 700Rwhp on a 1.9L blower reliably? Many blower swaps available for the LSA? Since you are talking out of your a$$, I won't await your reply, but will be careful driving as the road will be full of those 700+RWHP stock short block CTS-Vs. :loser:

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

How do you get a LSA to 700Rwhp on a 1.9L blower reliably? Many blower swaps available for the LSA? Since you are talking out of your a$$, I won't await your reply, but will be careful driving as the road will be full of those 700+RWHP stock short block CTS-Vs. :loser:

you understand that this 'little' 1.9l blower is a TVS, right? uh, lets see, tune, exhaust, intake, upper/lower pulleys, nitrous, ported heads, ported blower, upgraded heat exchanger, cam, throttle body, rockers, etc. the same way you make power with any other factory blown/pushrod car.
yep, 2.3l TVS, 2.8l KB, 3.6l KB, turbos
D3 | ULTRACHARGER CTS-V | D3 Cadillac Performance Parts

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...9/179119-vette-doctors-cts-v-821hp-846tq.html
664RWHP no juice - 821RWHP with juice - stock short block

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...767-rods-pistons-forging-lsa.html#post2517303
707RWHP no juice - stock short block

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...-had-car-tap-730hp-yesterday.html#post2514925
730RWHP(backed down to save the clutch/not enough injector) - stock short block

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum.../219464-dyno-numbers-685-633-uncorrected.html
685RWHP - stock short block

just a handful, plenty more of those if you feel like wasting your time.
but what the **** do i know, i'm just talking out my ass here:rollseyes

 

[200MPHCOBRA]

Don't count on it. I'm sure a factory boosted 5.0 won't be running 11.1 compression

A better test would have been to show the limits of each on pump gas and then race gas, not just compare power at the same psi and then just running whatever gas is needed to run 12, 15 and 18 psi on the stock 5.0.

Unless its direct injected! Regardless, the increased head flow and rpm capability will rule.

 

[Kewlv8]

you understand that this 'little' 1.9l blower is a TVS, right? uh, lets see, tune, exhaust, intake, upper/lower pulleys, nitrous, ported heads, ported blower, upgraded heat exchanger, cam, throttle body, rockers, etc. the same way you make power with any other factory blown/pushrod car.
yep, 2.3l TVS, 2.8l KB, 3.6l KB, turbos
D3 | ULTRACHARGER CTS-V | D3 Cadillac Performance Parts

Vette Doctors CTS-V 821HP/846TQ
664RWHP no juice - 821RWHP with juice - stock short block

Rods and Pistons for Forging LSA?
707RWHP no juice - stock short block

Had a car tap 730HP yesterday.
730RWHP(backed down to save the clutch/not enough injector) - stock short block

Dyno Numbers 685/633 uncorrected
685RWHP - stock short block

just a handful, plenty more of those if you feel like wasting your time.
but what the **** do i know, i'm just talking out my ass here:rollseyes

Thanks for proving the point.... a few ragged juiced up dyno queens running north of 650Rwhp for a brief moment in time......

C'mon over to the GT500 world.... We have a name for 650Rwhp too, it's called 'stage one'.....oke:


:-D

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

Thanks for proving the point.... a few ragged juiced up dyno queens running north of 650Rwhp for a brief moment in time......

C'mon over to the GT500 world.... We have a name for 650Rwhp too, it's called 'stage one'.....oke:


:-D

"ragged juiced up dyno queens"? they also happen to be some of the fastest CTS-Vs too, running low 11s/high 10s(4,300lb pigs mind you).

i've been here in GT500 world since they came out, and fully know what they're capable of. not sure what 'stage one' has to do with anything since no one in this thread even compared the CTS-V and GT500.
doh! i see what you did there, you tried that whole changing the subject strategy!

 

[Kewlv8]

"ragged juiced up dyno queens"? they also happen to be some of the fastest CTS-Vs too, running low 11s/high 10s(4,300lb pigs mind you).

i've been here in GT500 world since they came out, and fully know what they're capable of. not sure what 'stage one' has to do with anything since no one in this thread even compared the CTS-V and GT500.
doh! i see what you did there, you tried that whole changing the subject strategy!

Actually, the subtopic was forged vs. non-forged capability (5.0, 5.4, LSA). Pull the ball-sack outta your mouth if it effects you reading comprehension. Done with you now junior, run along.......:loser:

 

[2012STANG]

Both engines are great! I'm have a 2012 on order and will be running a KB @ 10 lbs of boost.. hoping to see close to 600 rwhp. I think the engine will have no issues handling that power. If it blows, it blows! I'll keep you updated....