The EPA.
5W20 oil: The Hard Truth
- Thread starter ChicagoMike
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The 5w-20 oil is strictly for emissions and epa (I talked to an svt rep at team svt back in Jan of 2002, we were talking a lot about my 01 cobra and the 03 that was coming out soon. He said it off the record by the way). Mobil 1 15w-50 is recommended for turbo, supercharged, and high hp cars (according to Mobil 1). 0w-40 is recommended for european cars (according to Mobil 1). The corvette manual recommends Mobil 1 5w-30 for their car. It actually tells you the brand and type in the manual. If it is good for their car, shouldn't it be good enough for our car? Corvettes come from the factory with full Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Something to think about.
JC
JC
I posted on this months ago - I guess you all have forgotten me. :??:
Not me......:rockon:
This does it for me! I was surprised to see 5w-20 in the engine specifications. Mobile 1 5w-30 will be in it by the weekend. 
Cobra'03...i remember your post....if i could find it, i'd link it here so everybody could read it....
I was also told because of the fine tolerances 5 - 20 is recommended. Currently running 5-20 synthetic.
uhhhh
I dont buy the idea of dealers trying to keep cars only running until the warreny period is up.. They always want to sell you an extended warrenty anyway...As far as books go...you can find one that says what you want if you look hard enough...just like you can find many different answers on the internet!
I tend to believe Stefan a while back......I believe that oils are designed for the specific needs of the engine and the way its built.
BY the way....when I called SVT back when I was going to go synthetic at 1000 miles, they told me the engine wasn't designed for synthetic and they would recommend more frequent oil changes rather than synthetic. I forget who I talked to, but the guy said that if I wanted to go synthetic to wait until I had more miles on the engine... but again he reiterated that he would spend the extra money on more frequent changes rather than synthetic oil...
I dont buy the idea of dealers trying to keep cars only running until the warreny period is up.. They always want to sell you an extended warrenty anyway...As far as books go...you can find one that says what you want if you look hard enough...just like you can find many different answers on the internet!
I tend to believe Stefan a while back......I believe that oils are designed for the specific needs of the engine and the way its built.
BY the way....when I called SVT back when I was going to go synthetic at 1000 miles, they told me the engine wasn't designed for synthetic and they would recommend more frequent oil changes rather than synthetic. I forget who I talked to, but the guy said that if I wanted to go synthetic to wait until I had more miles on the engine... but again he reiterated that he would spend the extra money on more frequent changes rather than synthetic oil...
BMW recommends Castrol TWS 10w-60 in the S54B32 motor in the E46 M3. The motor is now warrantied for 6-7 years and 100,000 miles. These motors run very hot and are very tight in tolerances. They had a rough time with then for the first two years they were used, rod bearing failures causing connecting rods to free themselves from the confines of the dark, damp engine block. Of course, bouncing off the rev limiter a few times doesn't help either. I was thinking of using it in the Cobra. I figured since my car is pretty modified and well broken in(4100 miles), and sees high RPMs very often that the 10w-60 should give me enough protection for cold start-up and warmed-up high RPM use. That coupled with an AMSOIL or K&N filter should be cool.:burnout:
On my (own personal cars not my customers) If turbo car I run 15w 50
On my clients car when its my decision I point at Red Line 10-30 or Mobil 1 10-30.Many clients on our new motors (under our suggestion)
run 5-30 Dino for 500 miles(run under 5000 rpm( dump and go hard again on Dino 10-30 hard means up to 6000rpm then dump for 5 or 10-30 depending on climate.
Here in Arizona I recomend and use in my natural aspirated motors 10-30,in my Canadian Shop Sean recomends 10-30 as well,Personally for my tastes give me a 5-30 synthetic.
We use MO1,Amsoil,royal purple(for noisy motors you TICKSTERS should try it in a 10-40 and Amsoil.
Good Luck and use common sence,Remember Porsche's TT is a beast and uses 20-50 always has and here in the desert there are many air cooled 500 rwhp cars with 200k+ Miles,Dave Smilovic
PS:My break in teqnique has yielded many hi mile motors over the years using Dino,and Dino to Synthetic.I wouldnt be truthful if I diddnt say I run hard for 250 miles on 10-30 Dino dump for 10-30 red line and go red line(RPM wise).Dave Smilovic
On my clients car when its my decision I point at Red Line 10-30 or Mobil 1 10-30.Many clients on our new motors (under our suggestion)
run 5-30 Dino for 500 miles(run under 5000 rpm( dump and go hard again on Dino 10-30 hard means up to 6000rpm then dump for 5 or 10-30 depending on climate.
Here in Arizona I recomend and use in my natural aspirated motors 10-30,in my Canadian Shop Sean recomends 10-30 as well,Personally for my tastes give me a 5-30 synthetic.
We use MO1,Amsoil,royal purple(for noisy motors you TICKSTERS should try it in a 10-40 and Amsoil.
Good Luck and use common sence,Remember Porsche's TT is a beast and uses 20-50 always has and here in the desert there are many air cooled 500 rwhp cars with 200k+ Miles,Dave Smilovic
PS:My break in teqnique has yielded many hi mile motors over the years using Dino,and Dino to Synthetic.I wouldnt be truthful if I diddnt say I run hard for 250 miles on 10-30 Dino dump for 10-30 red line and go red line(RPM wise).Dave Smilovic
Haven't forgotten you, but maybe what you said. Reading this thread would confuse anyone on what oil to use. So many different opinions, even quotes from SVT. I'm in SoCal with near perfect weather year round. I'm using 10-30w and will switch to synthetic at 5000 miles, using 10-30w as well. Will use this till the car dies. Am I wrong?
pacotaco
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You are the one that really got me into looking into this. Yes, I read everything you had to say. But now that fact this it is IN PRINT in a book other than the e-book Motor Oil Bible, I feel 100% about it now. Thank you Cobra'03!
Mike
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I am considered a "special" customer at my SVT certified dealership because I've stirred up quite a bit at Ford HQ and SVT regarding warranty issues
I spoke to my service advisor and he said they would put a full synthetic 10W30 in for me in the spring, that it won't void the warranty and they don't have a problem doing it.
Past dealerships coughwestfieldcough have told me only 5W20 or get lost
Mike
I spoke to my service advisor and he said they would put a full synthetic 10W30 in for me in the spring, that it won't void the warranty and they don't have a problem doing it.
Past dealerships coughwestfieldcough have told me only 5W20 or get lost
Mike
Here they are, gentlemen:
And I also posted on the BMW 10w60 point, which Ultimate makes so well - if tolerances were the only reason to go to 5w20, how do you explain European engines usually using at least 5w40, and in the case of certain engines, 10w60? It is such bull. Ford is doing this for "Green" reasons, and because if the car lasts 36k they are fine - if the engine last 75k, great. We want better, and that is why 5w20 is out in my book, until we see some long term enginewering wear analyses. remember, to make API SL grade, they had to lower phosphorous, and it is not yet clear that the replacement anti-wear additives are as good.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...eadid=14856&highlight=why+ford+says+no+synoil
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf
Last edited:
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The 03 Cobra comes with SYNTHETIC OIL BLEND from the factory, so the no "syn oil in our cars" is B.S.
You had me on the right track before this; I went with 0w-30, but in my area, 10w-30 is probably better.
In the realm of lubrication...we all think of you.
THESE POSTS REALLY AGGRAVATE ME! WOULD LIKE REAL ANSWERS!
OK, here is the problem Im seeing for far. Everyone is opinion sharing on what is good and what isnt, but NO real answers are coming from both this thread and another long thread.
So lets get the most imortant questions answered:
1. If SVT says "engine was not built for 100% Syn oils", why do most here think that because Ford uses a blended oil that that statement cant be true? Do syn blend Dino oils of the "same" weight as 100% Syn oils still provide a thicker coating than full syns? (stae facts, not opinions) Perhaps that is why they say FULL syns should not be used. Is the main problem with dino/blend oils that they break down faster? wont frequent changes solve this?
2. OK the warranty issue! No matter how u feel about it, Ford recommends a 5w-20 Blend. Now I really need to know, if you use a different weight, will Ford void the warranty? Is there even a decent chance they will? Probably, right? So, the point here is to find out EXACTLY how to meet Ford's warranty requirements for the term of the warranty and still protect Cobra engines well into 100K-200K miles. For example, will using the 5W-20 blend for the first 36K miles, and then, after warranty ends, switching to somewhere say 10W-30 thru 15W-50 cause permanent damage during the first 36K miles?
Basically the goal here is to meet the warranty as best I can while preserving my engine as best I can and then to switch to much better/more protecting oils once I am free from Ford's warranty grip so that the car is fully protected into 100K-200K miles.
So more-to-the-point questions are:
1. Is there a better oil than Motorcraft 5W-20 Blend to fully protect the engine during the first 36K miles GIVEN THE WARRANTY RESTRICTIONS? Perhaps a frequent change interval with this oil, say 1500 miles? Perhaps full Dino oil changed every 1500 miles?
2. Does it matter what type (blend, full, or dino) of oil is used if frequent change intervals are used (every 1500 miles say)? Or, no matter what, will full synthetic always provide better protection that blends and dinos on most engines? How can this be reconciled with Ford saying no ful syns? Basically, can blends and dinos be changed frequently enuff so that there is no break down and the cost isnt too prohibitive?
3. What are the weights if any other than 5W-20 is Ford willing to openly warranty without going thru lawyers and having things in writing and all that crap?
Honestly, I would just like to get some real answers rather than reading all of the crap posted so far. We know the drill with weights, whats better for high performance engines, Ford's stance, the EPA, etc.
All of you who already own Cobras, Mach 1s, etc had every oppurtunity to learn about the political bullshit that caused 5W-20 to be used before you bought the car LIKE I AM DOING. u had every chance to look into this whole oil weight problem in the United States when it comes to performance cars. You chose to buy it anyway. I will buy one to, but I will be totally informed of all none problems BEFORE I purchase it.
These are the facts: Ford waranties 5w-20 and we know that this sucks for long-term engine protection; the EPA/political bullshit in this country cause this. Buyers should have been aware of this before they bought the cobra thru research like im doing.
SO PLEASE TELL ME HOW CAN WE BEST PROTECT OUR ENGINES TO 36K MILES, KEEP WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF THE WARRANTY, AND THEN BEST PROTECT OUR CARS STARTING AT 36,001 MILES.
P.S. Last thing, in my opinion if u want to keep ur cobra well into 100K-200K miles then NEVER get an extended warranty where u will be forced to use 5w-20 for as long a 60K-76K miles. There would surely be no reovery from that length of time on 5W-20.
OK, here is the problem Im seeing for far. Everyone is opinion sharing on what is good and what isnt, but NO real answers are coming from both this thread and another long thread.
So lets get the most imortant questions answered:
1. If SVT says "engine was not built for 100% Syn oils", why do most here think that because Ford uses a blended oil that that statement cant be true? Do syn blend Dino oils of the "same" weight as 100% Syn oils still provide a thicker coating than full syns? (stae facts, not opinions) Perhaps that is why they say FULL syns should not be used. Is the main problem with dino/blend oils that they break down faster? wont frequent changes solve this?
2. OK the warranty issue! No matter how u feel about it, Ford recommends a 5w-20 Blend. Now I really need to know, if you use a different weight, will Ford void the warranty? Is there even a decent chance they will? Probably, right? So, the point here is to find out EXACTLY how to meet Ford's warranty requirements for the term of the warranty and still protect Cobra engines well into 100K-200K miles. For example, will using the 5W-20 blend for the first 36K miles, and then, after warranty ends, switching to somewhere say 10W-30 thru 15W-50 cause permanent damage during the first 36K miles?
Basically the goal here is to meet the warranty as best I can while preserving my engine as best I can and then to switch to much better/more protecting oils once I am free from Ford's warranty grip so that the car is fully protected into 100K-200K miles.
So more-to-the-point questions are:
1. Is there a better oil than Motorcraft 5W-20 Blend to fully protect the engine during the first 36K miles GIVEN THE WARRANTY RESTRICTIONS? Perhaps a frequent change interval with this oil, say 1500 miles? Perhaps full Dino oil changed every 1500 miles?
2. Does it matter what type (blend, full, or dino) of oil is used if frequent change intervals are used (every 1500 miles say)? Or, no matter what, will full synthetic always provide better protection that blends and dinos on most engines? How can this be reconciled with Ford saying no ful syns? Basically, can blends and dinos be changed frequently enuff so that there is no break down and the cost isnt too prohibitive?
3. What are the weights if any other than 5W-20 is Ford willing to openly warranty without going thru lawyers and having things in writing and all that crap?
Honestly, I would just like to get some real answers rather than reading all of the crap posted so far. We know the drill with weights, whats better for high performance engines, Ford's stance, the EPA, etc.
All of you who already own Cobras, Mach 1s, etc had every oppurtunity to learn about the political bullshit that caused 5W-20 to be used before you bought the car LIKE I AM DOING. u had every chance to look into this whole oil weight problem in the United States when it comes to performance cars. You chose to buy it anyway. I will buy one to, but I will be totally informed of all none problems BEFORE I purchase it.
These are the facts: Ford waranties 5w-20 and we know that this sucks for long-term engine protection; the EPA/political bullshit in this country cause this. Buyers should have been aware of this before they bought the cobra thru research like im doing.
SO PLEASE TELL ME HOW CAN WE BEST PROTECT OUR ENGINES TO 36K MILES, KEEP WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF THE WARRANTY, AND THEN BEST PROTECT OUR CARS STARTING AT 36,001 MILES.
P.S. Last thing, in my opinion if u want to keep ur cobra well into 100K-200K miles then NEVER get an extended warranty where u will be forced to use 5w-20 for as long a 60K-76K miles. There would surely be no reovery from that length of time on 5W-20.
I posted on this a while back.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14856
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf
Glad someone else is keeping the flame of truth alive
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14856
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf
Glad someone else is keeping the flame of truth alive
While this issue has been debated for a long time on this board, I know of not one example posted here where warranty has been rejected because someone used syn-oils. Standards for motor oils are set by the manufacturer, if the oil meets the standard, it should be acceptable.
One reason some people use synth. oils is for extended use between changes. I change mine every 3000 miles and use Amsoil Series 2000 0w30. I use it because I believe it has better lubricating characteristics than non-syn. Oh, I have my dealer change my oil and they use the oil I provide and have maintained my car and warranty work for the past 1 1/2 yrs.
Mike
One reason some people use synth. oils is for extended use between changes. I change mine every 3000 miles and use Amsoil Series 2000 0w30. I use it because I believe it has better lubricating characteristics than non-syn. Oh, I have my dealer change my oil and they use the oil I provide and have maintained my car and warranty work for the past 1 1/2 yrs.
Mike
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