6th Gear DYNO pull = POP goes my motor...

[Kevin the Clean 1]

NinoAvila,

Damn Nino, you are one smart guy. The fact that you documented, photographed, & filmed verything means you are a very careful & smart man. Sorry that others out there don't know what they are doing or talking about. I hope you get you car back in tip top shape soon.

 

[Jfoster]

Has anyone else looked at his A/F on his dynosheet? That engine was most likely already damaged or would certainly be hurt soon if he was running with that kind of tune - unless the A/F sensor on that dyno that day was not working properly and his tune is actually substantially richer than that.

That was my point.

I also think a 6th gear pull is a horrible idea and PROBABLY finished his motor off - but it's impossible to know for sure if it might have died in the next 20 miles or so of street driving too. THEN you look at the A/F and that really makes you wonder. It could have simply been a combination of things. Regardless, shitty luck.

 

[Mt Twigbert]

That sucks dude..

BUT, going fast isn't cheap.. My brothers 98 KB let go on the dyno at the first of the summer and its been down ever since..

My only thoughts are:

1) Your the second owner.. God knows what the first owner did to it..

2) The 6th gear pull probably wasn't good but I've seen lots of videos on the net of people doing that exact same thing on the street and their cars don't seem to be damaged.. Although, either way its beating up on the motor..

3) Chit happens.. Those motors are pretty stout but maybe, just maybe, there was a flaw when it came from Ford..

Its crap but chit happens though.. Suck it up, don't go back to that shop of morons and rebuild.. I think for the most part you are doing just that but I am still sensing some whining toward the shop.. Although I don't blame you..

 

[canibus]

damn vato, everytime i read something you wrote it's either a real good thing or a real bad thing. your luck sounds like mine lately. anyway hope it all get's worked out.

BTW: I was at the movies last night with my girl and some friends. it was one of those suspenseful moments when everyone is silent. Then all of a sudden i remembered your Avatar "BOLAS" i busted out laughing so hard i spilled my drink on my pants and had to exit the theather.

 

[Steeda30]

BTW: I was at the movies last night with my girl and some friends. it was one of those suspenseful moments when everyone is silent. Then all of a sudden i remembered your Avatar "BOLAS" i busted out laughing so hard i spilled my drink on my pants and had to exit the theather.

I pulled up this thread at work the other day and saw that and just couldn't contain myself, got all giggly, people were probably wondering what the hell I was laughing at.

BOLAS!

 

[DEAD EYE]

Wouldn't 6th place the engine at lower rpm's therefor working less?

 

[Lightning LA]

Why is 6th gear wide open runs so bad,i know on a Dyno it's not good.But i figured on the Highway you could floor it,and run it up to see what it has.I know with Lightning's,if you do high speed run's in colder weather your asking for a blowed Engine.

 

[Worsedog]

Wouldn't 6th place the engine at lower rpm's therefor working less?

Yes the RPM is lower but the LOAD on the engine is heavier due to the lack of gear reduction through the transmission.

 

[NinoAvila]

1) Your the second owner.. God knows what the first owner did to it..

True, but the previous owner bought it in May of 2002, when I bought it (Sept. of 06), it had 17k miles and there was a ton of maintenance records that came with it. Not only that, but everywhere you look on the car (battery relocation kit - high quality wire, gauges all had their own grounds and a nice grommet in the firewall, etc...) everything was done with good materials and quality craftsmanship. NOTHING on the car was half-ass and I had it on a lift to check it out. Now that I have the engine out and cracked open, you can REALLY tell how this engine has very little wear. Thing looks almost brand new!! With the exception of the scorched cylinders, it looks beautiful! hehe

2) The 6th gear pull probably wasn't good but I've seen lots of videos on the net of people doing that exact same thing on the street and their cars don't seem to be damaged.. Although, either way its beating up on the motor..

I think it was more the subsequent pull with no cool-down that did it. That and the fact that my air/fuel was running lean in 4th, imagine it in 6th with boost....ouch.

3) Chit happens.. Those motors are pretty stout but maybe, just maybe, there was a flaw when it came from Ford..

You're right. Cylinders 7 and 8 were the ones that were scorched. The cylinders just got overheated. A dyno pull should't take that long. 6th gear was 30 seconds and tack on whatever time it took him to get there....that equals lots of heat.

Its crap but chit happens though.. Suck it up, don't go back to that shop of morons and rebuild.. I think for the most part you are doing just that but I am still sensing some whining toward the shop.. Although I don't blame you..

I don't consider it whining. I just laid out the facts as they unfolded. At least I admit that it may not have been the shop. The shop never stepped up and admitted that the 6th gear pull may have had something to do with it. They didn't even offer me a refund on my dyno-pull money.

I did the shop a favor of putting together a "dyno day" for them, extra money. The least they could have done was strap the car down correctly, dyno it in the right gear and know how to get rpm readings so that people can data-log. It's not like I was asking the world.

What's done is done, but don't ask me to "like" it.

The car will be back much stronger and hopefully a hair quicker!!


Kanibus:
YEah, not too many people get that. "BOLAS"....it's a thing I like to say ....kinda like "PALO culero!!" Mr. Freeze (posts on here...mystichrome whippled...etc) started it. Pinche guey...haha

-N

 

[01cobravortech]

It had to be the 6th gear pull. Most legitimate mustang dyno shops don't even allow the motor to cool down for more than a minute between pulls. Thats been my experience at two reputable shops in NJ.

 

[canibus]

PALO! I thought i was the only one that said that. funny shit. the more i think about it, the more i realize people from texas and cali are the same. you guys ever get chilangos down there that say "CAMARAS WHEY", when they leave.

 

[Kevins89notch]

Just ask the cop who "clocked me" doing a 56 in a 40....

-N

Mother ****ing OWNAGE right there!!!! :rockon:

 

[Boostin03]

That really sucks man! I hope it all works out for you in the end...

 

[turbosaleen]

I've posted it to Modular Fords and here. This post was for an "UPDATE". As far as expecting something from the shop....that's been established. I haven't expected anything from them since the day I got off the phone with the owner and it was clear I wasn't going to get any assistance.

I would too. But know what, if I knew an employee of mine shat the stick (more than once and not only with me, but other that dyno'ed that day), I would somehow make it right. I do every day at work. Even if it means cleaning up after someone else's mess.

I expected the dyno operator to strap the car down right...it almost came off the rollers. I expected them to be able to get my RPM reading off of the coil pack wire...they plug into my diagnostic port and thusly the whole point of my dyno'ing inf the first place was moot - I couldn't data log with my laptop/SCT Tuner. I expected that my car would by dyno'ed in the correct gear, instead it was dyno'ed in 6th gear for almost 30 seconds. I expected that even after all these mistakes were made that the operator wouldn't try to dyno ANOTHER car in 6th...know what....it happened.

These motors don't pop on their own. Yes, the car was modified, but it had been run on the street as well as the track with no problems what-so-ever. The motor was in good shape. I WAS running lean, but keep in mind the tail-sniffer is usually not the most accurate A/F reader.

With the exception of the scorched pistons, there is *NOTHING* wrong with the block. Check out the pics on my site, the block is spotless. It's not in "good" shape, it's in extraordinary shape for the time it's spent out on the road and for the milage (according to 3 different sources, the dealership, my mechanic and the machine shop guy I'm taking it to). It's seen nothing but TLC since day one.

Just needs pistons and a bore.


Thanks, I could use some

-N

sixth is the wrong gear to run it in yes but simple fact is .... if it poped on the dyno under the lower load that they produce it would have poped on the street for sure with any extended sixth gear power application.

so simple truth is .. tune was off or so ragged edge that the extra load between 6th and 4th cuased the motor to pop.

and again regardles the tune was way lean thats what killed the piston the extra load of the sixth gear pull may have been a factor but regardless thats a unsafe tune and the motor was a grenade with the pin part way out with it that lean.


the pistons were scrorched because it was lean not because of back to back dyno pulls

if your can cant do back to back dyno pulls all day long the the tune is crap and unsafe and is the problem..

my car makes 900 rwhp and i can make 30 back to back pulls without issue because the cooling system is sufeceint for the car unless the cars over heating " lack of air flow due to no fan etc " then back to back pulls mean nothing more then a loss in power .....

UNLESS the tune is wrong and the car cant be run when hot with the tune that is in it

there is a reason the car has a ect and act temp sensor it adds fuel pulls timing for hot temps and if the tune doesnt do it then again tune problem.


as a dyno opperator and tuner i would have told you that the car was boarding on unsafely lean and recomended a tune.

to be blunt yes the sixth gear pull most likely killed it the extra load would have caused that air fuel to go even worse and at athat air fuel i would EXSPECT it to detonate under that kind of load

but again simple truth is your tune was dangerous they may have messed up pullling it in that gear but in the end the damage is because your tune wasnt safe.


do you have the dyno graph of the second fourth gear pull.

simple fact if it starts out the same power as the short six gear pull then the engine cut loose during the fourth gear pull not the sixth..

if it was hurt during the sixth it would show the loss of power from the second he started the fourth gear pull.

Looking at that tune the car was just waiting to cut loose even if your car would not have cut lose with a cool down anda nother fourth gear pull the tune was the ultimate reason ..

what happens on the street if you ever give it full throttle in fifth and sixth .. BYEBYE

had you told the dyno operator hey this cars not tuned right it could blow up if put under to much load it would have been his fualt

but again ..if the tune was right there would have been no damage there for the underlying fault of all of this is THE TUNE.


Ill put it this way you drive a car and try to stop and the brakes dont work is the accident your fault ? NO its the faulty brakes fault so you dont blame the guy driving you blame the guy who did the brakes.

 

[turbosaleen]

dble post duno why

 

[TERMIN8TR]

sixth is the wrong gear to run it in yes but simple fact is .... if it poped on the dyno under the lower load that they produce it would have poped on the street for sure with any extended sixth gear power application.

so simple truth is .. tune was off or so ragged edge that the extra load between 6th and 4th cuased the motor to pop.

and again regardles the tune was way lean thats what killed the piston the extra load of the sixth gear pull may have been a factor but regardless thats a unsafe tune and the motor was a grenade with the pin part way out with it that lean.


the pistons were scrorched because it was lean not because of back to back dyno pulls

if your can cant do back to back dyno pulls all day long the the tune is crap and unsafe and is the problem..

my car makes 900 rwhp and i can make 30 back to back pulls without issue because the cooling system is sufeceint for the car unless the cars over heating " lack of air flow due to no fan etc " then back to back pulls mean nothing more then a loss in power .....

UNLESS the tune is wrong and the car cant be run when hot with the tune that is in it

there is a reason the car has a ect and act temp sensor it adds fuel pulls timing for hot temps and if the tune doesnt do it then again tune problem.


as a dyno opperator and tuner i would have told you that the car was boarding on unsafely lean and recomended a tune.

to be blunt yes the sixth gear pull most likely killed it the extra load would have caused that air fuel to go even worse and at athat air fuel i would EXSPECT it to detonate under that kind of load

but again simple truth is your tune was dangerous they may have messed up pullling it in that gear but in the end the damage is because your tune wasnt safe.


do you have the dyno graph of the second fourth gear pull.

simple fact if it starts out the same power as the short six gear pull then the engine cut loose during the fourth gear pull not the sixth..

if it was hurt during the sixth it would show the loss of power from the second he started the fourth gear pull.

Looking at that tune the car was just waiting to cut loose even if your car would not have cut lose with a cool down anda nother fourth gear pull the tune was the ultimate reason ..

what happens on the street if you ever give it full throttle in fifth and sixth .. BYEBYE

had you told the dyno operator hey this cars not tuned right it could blow up if put under to much load it would have been his fualt

but again ..if the tune was right there would have been no damage there for the underlying fault of all of this is THE TUNE.


Ill put it this way you drive a car and try to stop and the brakes dont work is the accident your fault ? NO its the faulty brakes fault so you dont blame the guy driving you blame the guy who did the brakes.

Very well put. The damage was already done.

 

[03'Darin]

everyones bashing ford because they had origianlly told him that oh yeah, we'll cover 70% of your bill to pull block and repair engine......so they pulled the block and basically told him he's SOL, they should have verified through the ford rep and the manager or whoever that he was indeed covered to have this work done....and they didnt deny his claim because his car was modded, they came up with the excuse that 1.he's not the original owner and 2. his car was one year outta warranty

See here's where the problem is. FORD doesn't tell you that, the dealer does. Ford tells us as a dealer they will evaluate the failure and may help, but that the tear down and diagnostic is costs are the resposability of the customer of they won't cover the repair. I'm sure the dealer figured they would be able to get the repair ok'd by Ford so they didn't tell the customer up front they may not be able to get it covered AND that he may have a bill for the diagnostic of the motor.

 

[turbosaleen]

regardless of anyt of that .. if the car was out of the waranty period then ford doesnt have to do jack even if hes the original owner..

 

[NinoAvila]

sixth is the wrong gear to run it in yes but simple fact is .... if it poped on the dyno under the lower load that they produce it would have poped on the street for sure with any extended sixth gear power application.

Not on my watch...how many out there go around running the car at WOT in 6th gear? I have never - to this day. Hell I haven't been in WOT in 5th gear let alone 6th. It's a known "mine field". You can do it, but watch out.

so simple truth is .. tune was off or so ragged edge that the extra load between 6th and 4th cuased the motor to pop.

It helped, but I had many runs/races under my belt with the tune that was there.

and again regardles the tune was way lean thats what killed the piston the extra load of the sixth gear pull may have been a factor but regardless thats a unsafe tune and the motor was a grenade with the pin part way out with it that lean.

Good analogy, I'll expand on it...Everything is correct except I handed over the "pinless grenade" to a dipshit who forgot about the strike lever and let it go.

the pistons were scrorched because it was lean not because of back to back dyno pulls

Actually the pistons were scorched because the cylinders were overheated. I'm sure the 6th gear pull followed by a 4th gear pull had *something* to do with it. Had I gone in, dynoed, let it cool, dynoed again. I seriously doubt I'd have this issue now.

my car makes 900 rwhp and i can make 30 back to back pulls without issue because the cooling system is sufeceint for the car unless the cars over heating " lack of air flow due to no fan etc " then back to back pulls mean nothing more then a loss in power .....

Congrats, your setup must have been forged in the heavens by God himself. I have a normal engine and this is a daily driver with a tune that was lean. Back to back pulls for MOST of us are not healthy for the car.

as a dyno opperator and tuner i would have told you that the car was boarding on unsafely lean and recomended a tune.

Now this makes sense. I didn't know much about air/fuel, tuning cars or mechanics in general. That's all changed. I got a crash course now!! hehe

to be blunt yes the sixth gear pull most likely killed it the extra load would have caused that air fuel to go even worse and at athat air fuel i would EXSPECT it to detonate under that kind of load

That was my whole point.

but again simple truth is your tune was dangerous they may have messed up pullling it in that gear but in the end the damage is because your tune wasnt safe.

Safe enough for a 4th gear pull, but not 6th. There were no signs of detonation which leads me to believe that the A/F sensor (tailpipe sniffer) was off. There were some very knowledgeable cobra folks there that day. They would have heard detonation. Hell, I even have video of it!

do you have the dyno graph of the second fourth gear pull.

Why yes I do:
Air Fuel Table - Dyno Graph

what happens on the street if you ever give it full throttle in fifth and sixth .. BYEBYE

See the first paragraph response...

had you told the dyno operator hey this cars not tuned right it could blow up if put under to much load it would have been his fualt

That's why I was there. I wanted to see how the tune was. I was told (and I quote) "It's running a little bit on the lean side..." not "holy shit, you better go straight to your tuner and get another tune". This shop didn't service Fords let alone boosted 4.6's. I went there to datalog and get numbers that I could send into RWTD for tune refinement. They know performance on the Chevy side, they have multiple very fast running Chevy's that they've tuned. Another factor was that they had only had the dyno for a couple weeks. I'd expect that the owner/dyno operator would have said something about the air fuel.


:idea: I'm not some "after school special". I realize what happened and I paid for it. Like I've said a million times, I just think that the shop could have handled things better than saying "I can get you parts at cost, otherwise, sorry.."

Where I live there ARE NO REPUTABLE SHOPS that tune. And by reputable I mean shops that are known for producing fast running cobras consistently. I live in Edinburg, Texas (look it up here). The nearest shops are in San Antonio (3.5 hrs away), Dallas (8 hrs away) and Houston (6 hrs away).

The owners of the cars are the most knowledgeable about Cobras and all their nuances. That says a lot. We have no real performance resources down here. Unfortunately, I had to learn a very expensive but valuable lesson.

The car is in the shop and being worked on and it'll be out soon.

-N

 

[Steeda30]

That A/F is extremely lean, not safe at all. The lean condition is what burned the pistons.

I don't know why some people think the A/F changes with what gear the car is in. It is the same at WOT regardless of what gear the car is in. And the timing curve / load ratio remains the same regardless of gear.

Who tuned it? Do you have the A/F reading from previous dyno sessions at other shops?

What'd the spark plugs look like?