Anyone regret going turbo?

[04sleeper]

I really don't think you are going to get too many answers with people regreting going turbo. Most people who are going turbo already know kind of what to expect as far as what is involved with the pros and cons.

I can tell you that I decided twin screw was the way for me.

I like the idea of how turbos operate, but here is why I choose TS over Turbo.

Turbo kits were never engineered to go onto the 03-04 Cobras. They are basically afterthoughts of "How do I fit this into this engine compartment and get everything to work." No matter what kind of turbo nor the quality of tubing used, it will always have some sort of issue that most are willing to live with, but others are not. I am in the later of the two.

All of the kits available require a tubular k-mamber. (Big reason for me not to run one) Driveability suffers with k-member kits and coil overs.

I prefer the instant torque of a TS vs waiting for a turbo to spool. I have driven TT Cobras, and the lag was not fun for me. Sometimes I like to just hit it for a second and feel the power and let off. It's harder to do that with a turbo.

My power goals were met with a TS. Any more power is almost useless for the street driving that I do with the car.

Now if I were to build a track car it would definitly be a turbo/auto car hands down.

 

[TRBO VNM]

No matter what kind of turbo nor the quality of tubing used, it will always have some sort of issue that most are willing to live with, but others are not. I am in the later of the two.

All of the kits available require a tubular k-mamber. (Big reason for me not to run one) Driveability suffers with k-member kits and coil overs.

Can you explain more of the first point so I can make sure I understand where you are coming from? my first 2 terminator turbo cars didn't have any issues. aside from not having instant torq, they drove almost like factory. My current one only has issues with the fuel setup because I tried something "different and new". should never have done that, so now I am changing it to something I know is fine and tried and true.

your second point I would agree with depending on the setup. I have driven some with aftermarket front suspension setups that make the car feel like they are falling apart or sound like they are falling apart. but I have driven some that you can't tell a different from factory and actually ride/handle better than stock

 

[DCTHOM3]

I really do appreciate all the response from everyone. I'm looking to shoot for around
650-700 hp, eventually.
And it is true that twin screws hold there values pretty well, seeing how 2.2 kb's go for 2500+ within 48 hrs here.
I was really interested in how happy people are with their kits. I don't know if there will be any additional players in the turbo kit market in the future
Digital makes some excellent points about the extra work in the planning and attaining parts that work together.
Not really trying to start a Turbo vs TS debate thats something I will decide later.
Just seeing if anybody has had negative experience with Turbos or specific kits to stay away from
Thanks SVTP
Drew

 

[DCTHOM3]

I had a streetable tune in less than a few hours with mine. Started on the first crank. The tuner just needs to know what he is doing. I just got a little anxious with out throwing it on the dyno and it ran lean on me in 4th gear and that was all she wrote.

I went the custom route and over the course of 6-8 months we got the car running great. I had no drivablity issues at all. There were some headaches involved going custom route though, I went through 3 pumps before I found one that worked with out leaking, switched the crankcase vent a couple of times, and even though my turbo is located in the bumper we made a drain canister to make sure the oil did not burn up before it would drain or after the car was shut down and the turbo was still hot (you don't have these with off the shelf kits because they make sure all this is fine tuned in R&D before selling). Finally got the car running the way it was intended and then impatients took over:nonono:.

I only contimplated going back to the SC because of the cost to rebuild the engine but I got a very good quote on a built long block so money issue solved.

I agree it is costly and can be time consuming but I don't regret going turbo. My engine blew because of lack of patients not because of the FI route I chose. There is nothing like driving the turbo car though, the sound of it spooling, and the never ending seat of the pants feel. It is extremely hard to launch the car with out a 2-step but when the boost hits you quickly forget about that. My car would break the tires loose in first still just at a different rpm than with the eaton.

My set up did however make it a pain in the A** to change the oil because of the downpipe but after doing it a few times it is not that bad anymore.

I checked out your build thread and that thing was sweet. Glad to see you'll have a new long block for it :beer:

 

[Juiced46]

I may be wrong with this statement, but it seems to me that it takes alot of tune time to get a turbo streetable. Sure they make huge power but if you gotta spend many hours to tune it. Please correct me if i'm wrong turbo guys. I mean when i put the KB on i downloaded tune sent to me from RWTD and it was perfect. PD seems more predictable is this sense, easier to tune. Turbo's seem finicky to me on the street.

Yes you are wrong actually. Its not any harder to tune a turbo setup then it is a twinscrew. Its actually quite simple as long as you have the CORRECT parts and a GOOD tuner. This goes for anything Turbo or Blower

I really don't think you are going to get too many answers with people regreting going turbo. Most people who are going turbo already know kind of what to expect as far as what is involved with the pros and cons.

I can tell you that I decided twin screw was the way for me.

I like the idea of how turbos operate, but here is why I choose TS over Turbo.

Turbo kits were never engineered to go onto the 03-04 Cobras. They are basically afterthoughts of "How do I fit this into this engine compartment and get everything to work." No matter what kind of turbo nor the quality of tubing used, it will always have some sort of issue that most are willing to live with, but others are not. I am in the later of the two.

All of the kits available require a tubular k-mamber. (Big reason for me not to run one) Driveability suffers with k-member kits and coil overs.

I prefer the instant torque of a TS vs waiting for a turbo to spool. I have driven TT Cobras, and the lag was not fun for me. Sometimes I like to just hit it for a second and feel the power and let off. It's harder to do that with a turbo.

My power goals were met with a TS. Any more power is almost useless for the street driving that I do with the car.

Now if I were to build a track car it would definitly be a turbo/auto car hands down.

Theres no difference fitting a turbo kit to a 03-04 Cobra to a 99-01 Cobra or GT for the most part aside from some piping that is a non issue. They werent afterthoughts and a good designed turbo kit will not have any issues. . By your statement a KB mammoth is an afterthought as well. It wasnt designed for an 03-04 Cobra but they made it fit after having to relocate everything and cut some holes in the car. Same difference.

With that being said. Take it for what its worth. I love my turbo setup and would never trade it for a thing. It works flawless, runs great, zero driveability issues and it performs. My car is actually MORE reliable with the turbo then it was when I had PD and TS blowers on my car. This debate will go on forever, there is no one better, its all personal preference. Ive owned tons of different power adders on my Cobra, stock blower, ported, ported and nitrous, Procharger P1SC2, Procharger F1A, KB 2.2 and now the turbo. I have also installed, driven and built many many Whipple 2.3s, 3.4s, KB 2.2s, 2.6s, 2.8s, mammoths, NA, Turbo, Nitrous Cobras. When done with the right parts and the right tuner you cant go wrong with a turbo setup. Now if you buy some billy bob half ass kit on ebay, or an HP TT kit, then you will have problems.

A big power TS car is actually more useless on the street until higher MPHs due to the instant TQ. My turbo car hooks very very well on the street. From a stop it gets up and goes quick as well, if done right the lag is very minimal. I would never hesitate to line up with a similar power TS car or an AWD car on the street with my "laggy"turbo car Cause i know what the outcome would be

 

[TRBO VNM]

Just seeing if anybody has had negative experience with Turbos or specific kits to stay away from
Thanks SVTP
Drew

do a search in the turbo section and you will find some info. probably similar info on most sites.

 

[04sleeper]

Can you explain more of the first point so I can make sure I understand where you are coming from? my first 2 terminator turbo cars didn't have any issues. aside from not having instant torq, they drove almost like factory. My current one only has issues with the fuel setup because I tried something "different and new". should never have done that, so now I am changing it to something I know is fine and tried and true.

your second point I would agree with depending on the setup. I have driven some with aftermarket front suspension setups that make the car feel like they are falling apart or sound like they are falling apart. but I have driven some that you can't tell a different from factory and actually ride/handle better than stock

Issues like pipes not always lining up the way you want them to, or having a turbo crammed into an engine compartment and causing creaks, squeaks and rattles. Intercoolers not really designed to go where thay have to be mounted. Hose clamps coming loose/ blowing off. It also seems that every turbo car I have seen, or driven smokes or has some sort of oil issue.

All things attributed to something that was never "Engineered" for a Cobra. They were all just "Make it Fit". Like I said, "An Afterthought" if you will.

I have also ridden in and driven everything from UPR to Maximum Motorsports and Griggs Racing. And every single car lost driveability. Some may corner faster, but they ALL loose driveability. Period! No need to sugar coat it.

 

[Juiced46]

Issues like pipes not always lining up the way you want them to Buy a good kit and have someone that KNOWs what they are doing install it and this doesnt happen, or having a turbo crammed into an engine compartment and causing creaks, squeaks and rattles. I have never seen this happen, I dont know what turbo cars you have ridden in. Intercoolers not really designed to go where thay have to be mounted. Last I checked intercoolers go in front of the radiator behind the bumper just like your heat exchanger, so whats the problem? Actually to one up you, Hellions intercooler bolts to the factory clips on the front frame of ANY mustang. Hose clamps coming loose/ blowing off. Then whoever installed those kits are simply retarded. One anyone installing a turbo kit better know what a T clamp is and how to use it. Two its called bead rolling the ends of the piping. If a turbo kit doesnt have this, its clearly half assed and why the pipes blow off. It also seems that every turbo car I have seen, or driven smokes or has some sort of oil issue.

All things attributed to something that was never "Engineered" for a Cobra. They were all just "Make it Fit". Like I said, "An Afterthought" if you will.

I have also ridden in and driven everything from UPR to Maximum Motorsports and Griggs Racing. And every single car lost driveability. Some may corner faster, but they ALL loose driveability. Period! No need to sugar coat it.

i replied within your quote to make it easier

 

[04sleeper]

i replied within your quote to make it easier

Understood. Some people are "Pro" turbo and that will never change.

I have ridden in everything from HP, Hellion and HPP turbo cars and all had some sort of rattle, squeak or something that deterred drivability. FACT: NONE of the mentioned kits were "Engineered" in any way shape or form. They were "Make it fit".

It's not rocket science at all and the people who were installing these kits were the ones who designed them so with that argument I guess the designers were retards. :shrug:

No need to argue a moot point. I am simply giving my opinion on how I feel with dealing with these cars over th last 20 years.

 

[TRBO VNM]

Kevin,

Man, I am sorry about your experiences. Obviously they haven't been positive and I wouldn't doubt there is something more specific with those vehicles causing these problems. whether it is part of the kits used(turbo or suspension), installer error or bad design. I mean really, like I mentioned, I have experienced some of that because of poor quality parts, but have also never experienced those things with other turbo cars.

I will say this, that some people don't realize and leave it alone, when going coilover, on the driver side, you can experience spring binding and most likely will on every car that does not do the following....this is for anyone that reads this thread. If you install coilovers, on the driver side, you need to look up into the fender valley that the strut goes, on the outer side of this valley(strut tower), there is an oval punch out in the frame design from ford. the spring may and usually does ride on this. I experienced it on my first CO cobra with coilovers. Finally figured it out, so I grinded down that oval punch out and the noise went away. after that, no front suspension noise at all.

I don't sugar coat anything. I will tell it how it is based on my experiences. I have a buddy with a 97 saleen (snakecharmer). That by far has been the most solid car I have worked on. with that full MM setup up front, you would never know it. I could not believe how well that car handled and hugged the road and it wasn't bouncy or hard hitting at all.

 

[04sleeper]

Kevin,

Man, I am sorry about your experiences. Obviously they haven't been positive and I wouldn't doubt there is something more specific with those vehicles causing these problems. whether it is part of the kits used(turbo or suspension), installer error or bad design. I mean really, like I mentioned, I have experienced some of that because of poor quality parts, but have also never experienced those things with other turbo cars.

I will say this, that some people don't realize and leave it alone, when going coilover, on the driver side, you can experience spring binding and most likely will on every car that does not do the following....this is for anyone that reads this thread. If you install coilovers, on the driver side, you need to look up into the fender valley that the strut goes, on the outer side of this valley(strut tower), there is an oval punch out in the frame design from ford. the spring may and usually does ride on this. I experienced it on my first CO cobra with coilovers. Finally figured it out, so I grinded down that oval punch out and the noise went away. after that, no front suspension noise at all. I try to be as honest as possible and share my experiences as well.

I don't sugar coat anything. I will tell it how it is based on my experiences. I have a buddy with a 97 saleen (snakecharmer). That by far has been the most solid car I have worked on. with that full MM setup up front, you would never know it. I could not believe how well that car handled and hugged the road and it wasn't bouncy or hard hitting at all.

I understand where you are coming from Jason. But most poeple reading this will think that everything works perfect and if they install these kits their cars will be 100% free from driveability issues and you and I both know that won't be the case. I know you are a straight shooter and I have always admired that about you.

I know about the coil over issue you speak of because I have seen it first hand. All the kits that I have experience with have had no isolators on the springs. That may be one of the things that has left a bad taste in my mouth about them. Metal on metal type noises and increased NVH. I would really like to try a kit with some sort of dampners or isolators on the springs. I think that would really help. Most people will buy a drag race coil over set up like UPR or D&D and think it will drive like stock. We both know that it doesn't. Maybe something like KW or similar with dampners and bushings??? :shrug: Maybe they will not increase NVH??? :shrug:

Even the MM ones, (Which were 100X better than the drag type set ups) still had some increased NVH when compared to stock coil springs/isolators.

I too have been in many top cars put together by the best in the country, but most have left me wanting something to be changed.

This still doesn't mean I hate turbos. LOL.. I think they are bad ass!

 

[Juiced46]

Understood. Some people are "Pro" turbo and that will never change.

I have ridden in everything from HP, Hellion and HPP turbo cars and all had some sort of rattle, squeak or something that deterred drivability. FACT: NONE of the mentioned kits were "Engineered" in any way shape or form. They were "Make it fit".

It's not rocket science at all and the people who were installing these kits were the ones who designed them so with that argument I guess the designers were retards. :shrug:

No need to argue a moot point. I am simply giving my opinion on how I feel with dealing with these cars over th last 20 years.

Some people are pro turbo I agree. I love my setup. But like I said, Ive been down the road. I work on these cars daily and I have been in just about any setup you can imagine. They all have their pros and cons. You can have plenty of issues with a TS car. Belt slip, battling heat, IAT temps, snapping crank snouts etc etc. It goes both ways. This debate will never end and to the original poster. If possible, if you can get a ride in a properly setup TS and Turbo car, then decide for yourself.

Some turbo kits are half assed and I wouldnt install them on a lawn mower and these are typically the kits that people have issues with. Parts not fitting, stuff falling off etc etc.

Not trying to be an ass, but if you are worried about a car making a squeek or rattle here and there, then you should be driving a Mercedes not a Mustang. and for the cars that sound like the parts are going to fall off, its probably installer error or using poor quality parts. In the end its still a mustang.

I understand where you are coming from Jason. But most poeple reading this will think that everything works perfect and if they install these kits their cars will be 100% free from driveability issues and you and I both know that won't be the case. I know you are a straight shooter and I have always admired that about you.

When you talk about driveability, are you referring to squeeks and rattles or the way the car performs and drives under normal conditions? Driveability issues go can be poor with a TS car as well. Like I said before. As long as you are using the correct parts, the right people installing the stuff and the right tuner all of this is a non issue no matter if its a turbo or TS car.

 

[Digital]

Ya this seems like we're starting to look at the worst cases here.
For the MOST part a WELL made kit installed PROPERLY turbo OR twin screw will perform well with no issues.
Just because someone saw one that was done bad does not reflect the whole car.

We also seemed to go down the road of "well it wasnt on the car factory so it's bad.." That's got to be one of the dumbest arguments i've ever heard and it's used in the SRA vs IRS battles by the IRS guys ALL THE TIME. It's HILARIOUS. Smaller pulleys were never meant to be on our cars, aftermarket exhaust, headers, intakes, ports, I mean seriously how dumb of an argument is that?
Ford is making a twin turbo v6 mustang and most mustangs come with a solid, I mean that pretty much kills that argument doesn't it?

I think juiced and nvm have it pretty much under control at this point but jeez some of the people who post on stuff just seem to be so clueless sometimes. Don't they see they are only hurting the community by telling people not to pursue new things?

 

[SlowSVT]

I am not going to get into an argument, but man, some of this is incorrect information. Turns on when you are already going to fast? I have plenty of use with it in 1-3rd gear. Spin the wheels at will at 80mph? Really, and the instant torq of a PD blower doesn't do that? ask everyone making 600 plus with a TS and even some guys running mid 500's with an eaton. I can run 15# of boost in the summer with my street tires...not drag radials, but actual street tires(295/35/18 BFG KDW2) and not spin all the way to redline in 4th gear. Sure, if I nail it in first gear all the way to redline and shift through each gear without stopping I can spin them, but I am not going 80 in 1st gear.

no matter the power adder, stock eaton to compound boost, speeding can get you a ticket and you can get to that jail time speed just as easy with any of them. it depends on the driver and his foot, not the power adder.

working on them? I have worked on hellion equipped cars and and HP equipped cars. There is less for me to do on a hellion car when changing a clutch. you can also get to the inner belt and idlers a lot easier with a turbo setup. not so much with the factory setup. valve cover changes are easier, injector changes can be easier depending on the PD blower setup. So far, the positives outweigh the negatives for me. It may not for others. Your 2 major differences will be cost and instant power. although now with compound boost if you went that route, cost will be the major difference between a TS setup and turbo setup.

the only maintenance I ever did on my first turbo cobra was changing my wideband sensor and oil changes. other than that, I drove it and enjoyed it. drove it on the hot rod power tour and took it long distances(MD to FL) without issue.

turbo is not for everyone and some have gone back to a TS because they like the instant torq. I have no problem giving unbiased info, but I also don't like it when people give incorrect info.

some people have issues with certain turbo companies and kits, so it puts a bad taste in their mouth and they badmouth them(going turbo) from then on. it is definitely something that people need to weigh their options and what they are trying to accomplish with their car.

What exactly did I state that was “incorrect”? Are you saying a turbo is as easy to build, work-on and maintain as a PD blower?

……….has docile road manners?

 

[04sleeper]

Some people are pro turbo I agree. I love my setup. But like I said, Ive been down the road. I work on these cars daily and I have been in just about any setup you can imagine. They all have their pros and cons. You can have plenty of issues with a TS car. Belt slip, battling heat, IAT temps, snapping crank snouts etc etc. It goes both ways. This debate will never end and to the original poster. If possible, if you can get a ride in a properly setup TS and Turbo car, then decide for yourself.

I agree with you 100%. Any car can be put together and set up with issues. I would be best for the OP to ride in both set ups to decide.

Some turbo kits are half assed and I wouldnt install them on a lawn mower and these are typically the kits that people have issues with. Parts not fitting, stuff falling off etc etc.

I agree. The stuff from HP that I have had experience with, is terrible.

Not trying to be an ass, but if you are worried about a car making a squeek or rattle here and there, then you should be driving a Mercedes not a Mustang. and for the cars that sound like the parts are going to fall off, its probably installer error or using poor quality parts. In the end its still a mustang.

I will agree with you and add to your comments. It "Is" just a Mustang. Lets be realistic, these chassis were designed in the mid 70's when most on here were not even born or shitting in their diapers. They are basically a rental car with a big engine. They do rattle and are by no means a Mercedes. (Which I have personally owned as well) But why make it more of a rattlebox? It already has more than normal? Maybe I am getting older and having owned higher end cars just don't put up with the rattles as easily??:shrug:

Another fact about being "Just a Mustang" is that you have to find a limit. The more you venture away from stock, the worse manners the car has. Unless you redesign everything around it, it looses driveability. I have seen time and time again people that dream BIG and go for all out turbo set ups. They sink 25-30 K into their car only to realize they have a rattle trap of a car that is worth nothing and they could have bought a much nicer car for the same money. But that is another argument all together.

When you talk about driveability, are you referring to squeeks and rattles or the way the car performs and drives under normal conditions?

The squeaks, rattles, smoke, sometimes ground clearance, rubbing pipes, less room to work on the car, more maintanence, etc.... Not the way the car drives under normal conditions. Actually they can drive very docile.

Driveability issues go can be poor with a TS car as well. Like I said before. As long as you are using the correct parts, the right people installing the stuff and the right tuner all of this is a non issue no matter if its a turbo or TS car.

I would agree that the installer can make the difference, but just trying to give some other facts some people may not think about before they spend their hard earn money. I have been in TS cars that have had poor driveability as well, but I can tell you I would not put up with it. I spent many hours and time deciding and keeping my car driving like stock. And unless you popped the hood and looked, noone would think different if they drove it.

Ya this seems like we're starting to look at the worst cases here.
For the MOST part a WELL made kit installed PROPERLY turbo OR twin screw will perform well with no issues.
Just because someone saw one that was done bad does not reflect the whole car.

I can only assume that you are refering to myself. I never said that I have only seen "One Car". That would be crazy to make a decision based on one car. I have been around turbo Mustangs since Gene Deputy and his "Anteater" intake. (Look it up for some of you younger owners)

We also seemed to go down the road of "well it wasnt on the car factory so it's bad.." That's got to be one of the dumbest arguments i've ever heard and it's used in the SRA vs IRS battles by the IRS guys ALL THE TIME. It's HILARIOUS. Smaller pulleys were never meant to be on our cars, aftermarket exhaust, headers, intakes, ports, I mean seriously how dumb of an argument is that?

Were are not talking about making small changes like a pulley swap etc... And these Mustangs have been riding on the same frame set up since the 70's so a SRA is nothing new.

Ford is making a twin turbo v6 mustang and most mustangs come with a solid, I mean that pretty much kills that argument doesn't it?

No at all. You only prove my point and make for a stronger case for my argument. I appreciate you doing so and recognizing it actually. Comparing a "Factory Enginnered" turbo kit to the kits that are available to the 03-04 Cobras is comparing apples to oranges. These kits do not have the time or millions of dollars invested in them to make them perfect. This statement only solidifies the point I am trying to make.

I think juiced and nvm have it pretty much under control at this point but jeez some of the people who post on stuff just seem to be so clueless sometimes. Don't they see they are only hurting the community by telling people not to pursue new things?

I am not trying to hurt anyone by stating my opinions. Only trying to help actually. I would be more upset if I spent a boatload of money only to be unhappy when all said and done. And I am by far not clueless when it comes to Mustangs. Anyone who knows me personally or has followed along for some time knows that. I always take the time to try to explain my points and validity to back them up. So to make that kind of statement really shows your character or age.

Both Jucied and TRBO VNM are very well respected by myself. If I were ever to build a turbo set up for someone, I would kindly take their advice because both are very knowledgable with turbo set ups and actually take the time to make them correct and share with others. The quality of thier work always shows.

 

[TRBO VNM]

Kevin,

I appreciate the kind comments. I have a lot of respect for you as well and what you have done and your knowledge. I wanted to make sure I understood where you were coming from with your comments. :beer:

I would like to see if there was a way to have some type of insulator for coilover setups. It would probably have to be delrin. rubber won't work and I think poly may still be too soft for the smaller diameter springs used in coilover applications.

slowsvt, it is pretty clear what I stated in my post in response to what you had posted that I think is incorrect and not accurate. if you care to discuss it more, pm me or call me.

 

[Digital]

I am not trying to hurt anyone by stating my opinions. Only trying to help actually. I would be more upset if I spent a boatload of money only to be unhappy when all said and done. And I am by far not clueless when it comes to Mustangs. Anyone who knows me personally or has followed along for some time knows that. I always take the time to try to explain my points and validity to back them up. So to make that kind of statement really shows your character or age.

Not all comments were directly related to you just because you were the previous poster, don't get your feathers ruffled.

 

[Bullitt357]

Understood. Some people are "Pro" turbo and that will never change.

I have ridden in everything from HP, Hellion and HPP turbo cars and all had some sort of rattle, squeak or something that deterred drivability. FACT: NONE of the mentioned kits were "Engineered" in any way shape or form. They were "Make it fit".

It's not rocket science at all and the people who were installing these kits were the ones who designed them so with that argument I guess the designers were retards. :shrug:

No need to argue a moot point. I am simply giving my opinion on how I feel with dealing with these cars over th last 20 years.

Dude, I think you forgot you were riding in a Mustang not a Cadillac land yacht.

 

[RussZTT]

I'm probably the only one on here that really cares about this, but I definitely prefer the look of having the supercharger up top to having just a regular n/a Cobra intake with some pipes leading to it. I know the turbo is way more efficient, has more potential for big numbers, etc., but there is just something really cool about having that big blower sitting on top to me! Honestly, if I ever went turbo, it would have to be a compound setup for this reason.

I agree with the 01 Cobra intake doesn't look that appealing however, look at the Sullivan upper and lower. I have the THP twin turbo kit and I have that intake with the bag ass elbow pipe that goes to the TB. That sucker looks tits. :rockon:

 

[stangliter04]

A well engineered kit can make or break your experience... My friend put a on3 kit on his GT and made great power but the design of the kit was horrid... he had all the creaks and squeaks and it was a PITA to work on. So he sold that kit and almost ordered a Torque Tech kit to put a Eaton on his car but ended up running into a local guy that custom makes turbo kits with reverse headers and the whole 9 yards.. He just got his car back a few days ago and says it's a night and day difference. OP try to find a turbo and TS car to take a ride in and make a educated decision.