Are the extra CIs worth in Boosted Applications?
- Thread starter Nazman
- Start date
Once I finish my current combo Im going to start with the next project. It will be a 322CI Boss block with a Twin Snail set-up.
What I really want to figure out is if I want to run that motor on the Albino and swap the NA Beast into the Fox or keep the Albino NA and the Fox FI'd.
I think that a 322CI,@ 9:1CR and twin 61s and an auto tranny will be beyond sick! On a Fox at ~2900LBS.....WOW!
Does not have to be a full-on race car...but a dual purpose weapon. In San Antonio you need it! :beer:
Naz
Too me it still comes down to durability. Which engine will last longer:
1. High boost, small CI motor?
2. Low boost, big bore stroked motor?
Obviously, a high boost, big bore stroked motor is the ultimate. But that engine doesn't have the ultimate in durability either. There is a cost of ownership here. The cost to build is most likely very similar.
1. High boost, small CI motor?
2. Low boost, big bore stroked motor?
Obviously, a high boost, big bore stroked motor is the ultimate. But that engine doesn't have the ultimate in durability either. There is a cost of ownership here. The cost to build is most likely very similar.
Yes, and no.
For example:
-The Boss block is the ultimate in Modular strenght.
-The Boss block has a little longer cylinders, which do not allow for as much piston to stick out. I have a few pics of the piston at BDC, and the does not sticks out like on a aluminum stroke.
-The Boss block has a revised oiling and cooling system which is a derivative of the Ford Racing program.
-The cylinder walls on the Boss with thier Siamese design are tons stronger than any of the aluminum blocks, including the Teskid.
-A Kellogg, fully counterweight 3.75 stroke crank, is as strong as the stock unit where the "standard" 3.75 stroke crank used by most builders is not a fully counterweighted crank, therefore, the Kellog unit fully counterweighted unit is day & night stronger.
-Billet Rods should be on any build over 725RW, period.
-Pistons, with FI (Turbo) specific ring lands and FI specific ring package with some H22 piston pings.
Those are some areas where this build would be 10X stronger than a standard build with a "Teskid" or any other aluminum block.
Those are some specifcs that will allow you to have all the durability and strenght need it to be a fully reliable package.
There is more power with an increase in volume, after all an engine is just an air pump. More aire, more hp. However, 600rwhp is about the max that a well set-up street car can handle, anything over that is wasted on spinning the tires (as previoulsy stated by olgreydog7). MOst street cars can't handle anything even close to that. For those well setup street cars a boosted 281ci motor will do just fine and could possibly be more reliable...depending on who you talk too...but they will defenitely be more inexpensive.
A well built low boost stroker will last longer than a high boost motor as the high boost engine will create a lot more heat which speeds wear. However, what is high boost and what is low boost? I can tell you that an 8psi stroker won't make the same power as a 15psi 281ci engine.
For 99% of the members of this site a boosted 281ci engine with 500-600rwhp will handle all the street racing challenges that come up. If anything, their 1/4 times will only be reduced through suspension/chassis work and not more hp.
Put the money where you get the most bang for the buck!
A well built low boost stroker will last longer than a high boost motor as the high boost engine will create a lot more heat which speeds wear. However, what is high boost and what is low boost? I can tell you that an 8psi stroker won't make the same power as a 15psi 281ci engine.
For 99% of the members of this site a boosted 281ci engine with 500-600rwhp will handle all the street racing challenges that come up. If anything, their 1/4 times will only be reduced through suspension/chassis work and not more hp.
Put the money where you get the most bang for the buck!
Last edited:
I dont recall anybody saying that more cubes w/ boost will not make more power.
But I still do not think that paying extra is worth it
But I still do not think that paying extra is worth it
Last edited:
Now this thread will get you thinking. Id go big bore less boost but what do you do after that?
Sell it.
always enjoy ur posts naz. cant wait to see what my built 5.5 dohc does with a set of 67s.
What's really interesting is that the 281 is only down 45 horsepower at 10 PSI but at 18 PSI (ragged edge for pump gas) and above the gap increased to over 100 horsepower between the two.
$2500 for 100 horsepower is CHEAP. When paying for bolt-ons we can figure an average of $34/per 1 horsepower gain. Some parts deliver more, some less. Average is $34. The extra cubes give us a $25/horsepower bargain, a 25% savings. It's not quite up there with a JLT intake but almost three times better than long tube headers.
Big Cubes/Low Boost for longevity and good economics. Even if you have to save for another year, it's worth the wait.
Great Post NAZ!
$2500 for 100 horsepower is CHEAP. When paying for bolt-ons we can figure an average of $34/per 1 horsepower gain. Some parts deliver more, some less. Average is $34. The extra cubes give us a $25/horsepower bargain, a 25% savings. It's not quite up there with a JLT intake but almost three times better than long tube headers.
Big Cubes/Low Boost for longevity and good economics. Even if you have to save for another year, it's worth the wait.
Great Post NAZ!
Are you saying a high compression FI engine is capable of making more power then a low compression FI engine?
Albino is THE naturally aspirated legend, dont gut it. Build a new legend with the forced induction fox body :beer:
Because you'll get bored after finishing the two ultimate DOHC combos, you'll have to transplant the new 6.2L (bored/stroked to 428 ci) hurricane engine into a 005+ GT Stang :rockon:
Last edited:
This is where I disagre.
Like always it will come down to "if you think its worth it"
I can make 100rwhp for free.
The point of the matter is that not everybody can afford the best of the best, the biggest motor, ported heads, cams, blah blah blah. And even if they could they don't really have to and might not want to.
I wanted to do a basic build, keep it simple and it got the job done. Could I have made more power if I went with 50+ more cubes sure (obviousely). But whats the damn difference instead of making 900 it would make 950?
Also just wondering what is timing and a/f for these readings?
Also, that "HP @ 25PSI for a 322CI" motor sure does look familiar ;-)(from my 284ci motor w/ a 01 cobra intake, stock t/b, and flowmasters
it is if you can find gas w/ an octane rating of 200 or just run meth lol
excellent post Naz....
Well, I'm too old to get drunk, so what I really mean is mull this over a few beers.
I agree with Todd, keep the Albino na. Then, it is easier to maintain as a daily. Build and boost the hell outta the fox! If I were you, I'd be done with the Albino and move on to the Fox.
I hear you droptop, but think of this economy wise. I agree with you for what I consider to be the most a street car can handle, 600. But, above that, more cubes is better and here is why. Have you ever gone snorkeling or scuba diving? It kinda hurts when you get deep doesn't it? Personally, I've gone down to about 30 feet or so snorkeling in Hawaii. At .44 psi per foot, that is only about 13.2 psi. That hurt quite a bit since I'm not used to it. Yea you may be able to turn up the boost for free, but you can't rebuild a motor for free. When you are running boost up around 20, I'd rather build more cubes and pull the boost back. The motor WILL last longer.
Here is my question though. Does a motor blow from the pressure of the boost or from the amount of torque the motor is making?
Its call ENGINE EFFCIENCY. The numbers you see there, are taking by utilizing 85% engine volumetric efficiency which our Modular motors can easily surpass with ease.
On my motors I have seen 100+ load while datalogging. This is equivalent of volumetric efficiency and you can "only" surpass 100% load with a FI motor....well I do it NA for example. So, yes I agree you could have matched that, but it was due to volumetric efficiency, just think about it in a 322 then? Still be out powered.
The point is not 284 or 322, the thing is that the power band will be hugely fatter all across the power band. HP and TQ production will be lots fatter down low, mid range and top end. So, the car will be lots faster with less RPM, Boost, timing, etc.
So, you say you mae 937RWHP, lets see what it takes the 284 to make 100HP more....Yes, you could crack up the boost or RPM (if you got enough turbo) but lest see how much it takes:
A tad over 8500RPMs @ 25 PSI
Or
7500RPMs@ 29 PSI
Those 2 ways you could utilize to make an extra 100 HP on 284CIs.
Exactly. :beer:
Boost = Heat
Heat breaks parts, expansion of metals under extreme applications will cause undue frictions and breakdown of fluids (cooling, oiling, etc) closing down on clerances affecting a multitude of things: PTW, Main/Rod, Piston Rings, etc
Yes, overly powering a motor could hurt it so is exesive RPM, and excessive boost.
Not to mention head gasket sealing and other multitude of problems on high boost applications.
How many 1000RWTQ diesel motors have you seen broken at 3500RPMs?
Users who are viewing this thread
