Behind true paint shine....its not waxing....

TransAxle

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Or sealing. In the thread below... I am writing this thread too explain to people why the age old question of "Which wax or sealant?" is an invalid question.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/shownshine-saloon-190/859192-waxing-sealing.html

I asked people whether the GTR was waxed or sealed. The answer was neither. Only two people who responded too the thread knew the answer was neither and therefore did not answer the poll. Waxing and sealing the paint of a vehicle really does nothing for you if the surface of the vehicle is not prepped correctly. Even if its simply just claying the paint. As that will help remove fallout and contaminants from the paint surface, thus giving the paint a better surface for waxes or sealants to bond too. Waxing or sealing a vehicle that only gets washed in its lifetime is also a waste of time. You waste product because your not removing old waxes/sealers that have no completely diminished, grime that has embedded itself onto the paint blocking the waxes/sealers from bonding too the paint and any new layers of waxes/sealers on the paint will not last anywhere near as long as usual.

Just for an idea, this is what claying vehicles that have never been clayed can produce. Dark color vehicle you would never have noticed this one. Doing this alone to the vehicle brought a better shine and look too the paint as the surface was free of grime that took away from the look...

ClayBefore-1.jpg


After a small 2'x2' area...

ClayAfter-2.jpg


Now back too the question at hand. My poll thread was too show that everyone puts too much emphases on waxing is better or sealing is better. In my opinion waxes are better for show cars and prior to taking it too shows. I would prefer to top a car with two coats of the same sealant to give the paint a great wet shine with long lasting protection. Again, this is my opinion, but it is fact that no wax will outlast a sealant.

When people always say that you want your vehicle to shine, all you need to do is wax it or seal it, is bad information. A a professional in this industry, I know that you will never beat the shine and gloss of a fresh and properly detailed paint job. As the picture of my customers GTR in the thread showed, a vehicle with a ABSOLUTELY clean and BARE surface with nothing on it, can look like its been waxed or sealed.

When you look at other professionals work and see this outstanding finished product with no information on the steps, its a safe bet that they did more than just wash it and throw a coat of wax on. When you free the surface of contaminants and scratches, you bring a much better shine and reflection too the paint. Giving it a much more crisp look. On top of the glossing effect from properly buffing the paint at a micro level. Too give you an idea...

Quickest example I could find...the before shot of the roof, when outside the sun only reflects back the scratches diminishing the reflection and giving the paint a somewhat dull look. This one was not nearly as bad, but it gets the point across...

RoofSunSpotBefore-1.jpg


After correction, the reflection with the sun is nice and crisp. Allowing your eyes to focus in on what is reflection from the paint and even giving showing off the color better. Had this been waxed, it would have looked shiny from 5-10' away, but not looked near as good as buffed and waxed.

RoofClouds.jpg


So basically, to sum it up, when you ask which wax or sealant or whatever will make my paint look the best...the answer is nothing. Waxing or sealing a vehicle that has never been properly taken care of is like putting a band aid on a wound that needs stitches. If you really want your vehicle to shine like a new car, make it stand out in traffic or at a car show or just have it looking like its always wet...then you need to start learning how to buff your paint. Or hire your nearest qualified professional detailer. After that maintain your vehicle and then ask "Which wax or sealant?"
 
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TransAxle

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More examples of what difference can be made on paint, with correctly prepping surface. Which side would you prefer to be protecting with waxes or sealants?

33-5.jpg

50-50-1.jpg
 

Taylor_SVT

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Just clayed my Mineral Gray and it made an amazing difference. after i had finished it really shined after i used the buffing wheel with wax. it came out like a mirror
 

Squamishcoyote

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The difference that just clay can make is huge, I went through 2 claybars helping my friend with his 97 GT... Night and day difference after the polish, but I am cheap and only have a random orbit, I can only imagine how good it would have been with a DA.

Thanks for proving me right, my dad and I have had this argument atleast 10x now
 

Kove

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so what products do you use for your "correction" on these black cars?

+2

I'm having issues finding a detailer. Everyone around here is a mobile detailer and not sure if I trust them or not.


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AdamR@Gotham

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The difference that just clay can make is huge, I went through 2 claybars helping my friend with his 97 GT... Night and day difference after the polish, but I am cheap and only have a random orbit, I can only imagine how good it would have been with a DA.

Thanks for proving me right, my dad and I have had this argument at least 10x now

While claying should be yoour first step and it does improve the shine it does not correct the paint. The clay bar removes the imbedded contaminants in the clear. Theres plenty of good products on the market for paint correction, trying them out is going to be the only way to find what works for you.

Meguiars 105 or the D/A Microfiber compound are my go to compounds. I follow those up with 205. Once you have the paint looking good, then worry about what to top it with.
 

Squamishcoyote

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While claying should be yoour first step and it does improve the shine it does not correct the paint. The clay bar removes the imbedded contaminants in the clear. Theres plenty of good products on the market for paint correction, trying them out is going to be the only way to find what works for you.

Meguiars 105 or the D/A Microfiber compound are my go to compounds. I follow those up with 205. Once you have the paint looking good, then worry about what to top it with.


Sorry I didn't mean that clay was all I used, just that clay makes a huge difference on its own with a neglected car.
I used OTC meguairs swirl remover and mirror glaze with a random orbit.
I will keep those products you mentioned in mind for when I stop being cheap and buy a DA. :beer:
 

flamed03vert

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So what is your stance on decon systems such as the one FinishKare sells, or Iron X? Are they worth the extra expense?
Another question related to the topic at hand is paint work cleaners such as those sold by Sonax, Blackfire or Griots... are they worth it for decon or just move right to compound and polish such as 105/205 combo?
Alot of the members here including myself are DIY'ers and I never miss the chance to attempt to learn more and pick the brain of someone who does it for a living.
And your thread poll was great... but not fair. Trick question... haha! Seriously though thanks for the info.
 
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gamatt

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... Waxing or sealing a vehicle that only gets washed in its lifetime is also a waste of time. You waste product because your not removing old waxes/sealers that have no completely diminished, grime that has embedded itself onto the paint blocking the waxes/sealers from bonding too the paint and any new layers of waxes/sealers on the paint will not last anywhere near as long as usual.

I disagree with the absoluteness of this statement, there can be a middle ground for daily driven cars that aren't going for maximum appearance. If you don't have the time, money or concern to do a full correction, by all means do apply a wax or sealant of some sort for protection if nothing else. That being said, don't expect results like you see when Transaxle or others spend 20 hours on a car.

My wife's van for example, only gets washed and I apply Duragloss Aquawax after each wash, it definitely gives it depth, gloss and protection.
 

T0RCH3D

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Great thread man, huge misconception that was covered perfectly.

"Waxing or sealing a vehicle that has never been properly taken care of is like putting a band aid on a wound that needs stitches."

^Nothing more has to be said. If you do not prep/ "correct" the paint, no matter how much time/ effort/ method/ or product of wax or sealant used you are simply wasting your time just covering the defects.
 

TransAxle

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Just clayed my Mineral Gray and it made an amazing difference. after i had finished it really shined after i used the buffing wheel with wax. it came out like a mirror

Mineral Gray is a hard color to do. My brothers old mustang was mineral gray. I spent two years and never could find a solid wax or sealant that really brought out the shine after detailing it. Such a neutral color.

so what products do you use for your "correction" on these black cars?

Depends on the type of vehicle and what degree of correction I am after. There is not set combination of products that will yield the same results every time. Most of what I can do is my knowledge of products and ability with a buffer.

The difference that just clay can make is huge, I went through 2 claybars helping my friend with his 97 GT... Night and day difference after the polish, but I am cheap and only have a random orbit, I can only imagine how good it would have been with a DA.

Thanks for proving me right, my dad and I have had this argument atleast 10x now

Always worth it. Once you step up to a DA with the correction products you will notice a big difference then what you use to get.


Thanks.

+2

I'm having issues finding a detailer. Everyone around here is a mobile detailer and not sure if I trust them or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What area do you live around? Might know of a detailer in your area. Or you could join Autopia.org too look for a detailer. Join the forum and ask in the specific region area.

While claying should be yoour first step and it does improve the shine it does not correct the paint. The clay bar removes the imbedded contaminants in the clear. Theres plenty of good products on the market for paint correction, trying them out is going to be the only way to find what works for you.

Meguiars 105 or the D/A Microfiber compound are my go to compounds. I follow those up with 205. Once you have the paint looking good, then worry about what to top it with.

You would be amazed what you can do if you surpass that terrible polish called 205. Look into HD Polish...you will never touch 205 again. Granted I have had the same bottle of 205 for over a year because its that useless in my inventory.

Sorry I didn't mean that clay was all I used, just that clay makes a huge difference on its own with a neglected car.
I used OTC meguairs swirl remover and mirror glaze with a random orbit.
I will keep those products you mentioned in mind for when I stop being cheap and buy a DA. :beer:

Get away from OTC products and glazes. Glaze only fill paint, they do noting else for you.

So what is your stance on decon systems such as the one FinishKare sells, or Iron X? Are they worth the extra expense?
Another question related to the topic at hand is paint work cleaners such as those sold by Sonax, Blackfire or Griots... are they worth it for decon or just move right to compound and polish such as 105/205 combo?
Alot of the members here including myself are DIY'ers and I never miss the chance to attempt to learn more and pick the brain of someone who does it for a living.
And your thread poll was great... but not fair. Trick question... haha! Seriously though thanks for the info.

Iron X only helps break down heavy iron deposits on your paint. I have bought a bottle and never bought another. It works but too me its more of a marketing gemik than an actual overly useful product.

Paint work cleaners are usual. They are just another type of product to help remove oils and polishing residues from the paint too help the wax or sealant better bound too the surface.

I disagree with the absoluteness of this statement, there can be a middle ground for daily driven cars that aren't going for maximum appearance. If you don't have the time, money or concern to do a full correction, by all means do apply a wax or sealant of some sort for protection if nothing else. That being said, don't expect results like you see when Transaxle or others spend 20 hours on a car.

My wife's van for example, only gets washed and I apply Duragloss Aquawax after each wash, it definitely gives it depth, gloss and protection.

True. Hell my own personal truck never gets corrected because it gets driven a lot, its silver and....I prefer not to buff my own truck on my few days off. But the thread was more geared towards those wanting too either DIY or get a professional to really clean up there fun vehicles.

Great thread man, huge misconception that was covered perfectly.

"Waxing or sealing a vehicle that has never been properly taken care of is like putting a band aid on a wound that needs stitches."

^Nothing more has to be said. If you do not prep/ "correct" the paint, no matter how much time/ effort/ method/ or product of wax or sealant used you are simply wasting your time just covering the defects.

Thanks.

should you use different types of clays for different colors? If so what would be a good clay for a new 2012 silver f150?

No. There are different grade clays depending on how bad your vehicle is. The clay I have pictured is Meguiars Aggressive Grade Clay because the vehicle was that bad. My average go too clays are either Light or Medium grade.

For a new vehicle, you should hopefully only need a light grade at the most depending on how bad your vehicle is and how long it say at the dealership.
 

Seer

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polishing is 90% of the finish, the lsp is the other 10%.

No matter the finish, every vehicle should have some form of protection on them though.

If you don't have time to devote, at least use a one stepper or aio.
 

jacob517

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What should I use to make my OW car look the glossy-er? It was recently wet sanded and buffed so whats next? I have a big show next month in Michigan and want it to look its best!! Thanks
 

Jay89GT

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Not a big fan of clay bars I have used them and feel they don't really do much. Nothing a cleaner wax cant do or the best thing I have used if you want right back down to the paint is bug and tar remover. May not be professional but it cleans the paint really good. You will be starting from scratch and will need to wax and polish but is much faster than clay bars. My 2 cents. With that said the pics you posted the paint was very nice obviously sent alot of time on it and it looked great.
 

TransAxle

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What should I use to make my OW car look the glossy-er? It was recently wet sanded and buffed so whats next? I have a big show next month in Michigan and want it to look its best!! Thanks

This scares me that you wet sanded and buffed the car and its not shiny enough. What process did you use for the sanding and buffing?
 

jacob517

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A friend of mine did it..he works at an autobody shop. It looks great just wanted to seal it to keep it that way.
 

TransAxle

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A friend of mine did it..he works at an autobody shop. It looks great just wanted to seal it to keep it that way.

Not dissing on your friend or trying to be mean...but there is a HUGE difference between what I do and what body shops do. Odds are your vehicle has pig tails all in it, holograms everywhere and sanding marks still left. Any idea how long your buddy spent on it or how much be charged you?
 

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