Better results Heat exchanger or water pump?

[umustdv8]

In an effort to cool my pig down, I'm in the market for some cooling parts. I'm looking in to the Fluidyne after seeing it on KevinJKD's car and I also heard about the Meziere Electric Water Pumps. It flows more water and creates less drag on the motor and states it's good for 11 rwhp. I never believe printed numbers, but what do you guys think?

What would you do, Heat Exchanger or water pump?

 

[Dana]

Each of the parts you have listed perform on different parts of the motor and really can't see how a comparison can be made. The electric pump will most certainly produce a HP gain, if for no other reason than the WP drag on the motor is eliminated. How much is a different story. I have seen claims as high as 17 HP, which I really doubt. 5 to 10 is more realistic.

The improved heat exchanger is also an unknown quantity at this point. It is sure to produce an improvement in HP when the blower is overtaxed to the point of heat soak. How much though still remains to be seen. It should produce gains even before that though.

Considering the conditions where you live, I would probably consider doing both. I'm sure this isn't the answer you were looking for, but that is my opinion.
I think I would do the WP first because that is good for at least 5 or 10 HP and that is all the time, not just under high heat load conditions. Also, by then maybe someone will have some dyno results, if they don't already, and you can see if you want to proceed with the larger heat exchanger.

Dana

 

[Shadowgray03]

Im a bit reluctact to run an electric water pump on a street car, much higher chance of failure than a mechanical one. The heat exchanger wont really keep engine overall cool, mainly the charge temp. I think I would look for a more efficient radiator before I went with elec water pump. But thats just me.

 

[Fang]

Originally posted by Shadowgray03
Im a bit reluctact to run an electric water pump on a street car, much higher chance of failure than a mechanical one. The heat exchanger wont really keep engine overall cool, mainly the charge temp. I think I would look for a more efficient radiator before I went with elec water pump. But thats just me.

I think I am going to do the radiator thing myself. I am waiting for a local guy here Daryl B to get his in so I can see what his results are. If you are having the overheating problems like some of us make sure you have a good air bleed on the cooling system. I haven't had a blow over in a while but temps are starting to come down in Colorado so its hard to tell if the problem is gone.

 

[yermo]

there are going to be more HE (gord?, JLP, fluidyne) on the market soon, so i think that you should go with the E pump.

 

[MJ32V]

I'm with Shadowgray03 on this one. I'd be reluctant to swap out the mech pump to an electric pump on a daily driven street car due to possible reliability issues.

On the other hand, an improved HE in south Fla sounds like a good idea.

MJ

 

[toofast4u]

Originally posted by Shadowgray03
Im a bit reluctact to run an electric water pump on a street car, much higher chance of failure than a mechanical one. The heat exchanger wont really keep engine overall cool, mainly the charge temp. I think I would look for a more efficient radiator before I went with elec water pump. But thats just me.

Same hear. I am more interested in Gord's HE then the one that KevinJKD is using it is wider and I think looks better with the entire opening silver instead of the smaller one with fluidyne written on it.

I am not having a problem with engine temperatures did you have Diablo lower the temp your fans go on. Mine are programmed so they are basically on all the time and my car is running much cooler then before and also takes longer to warm up. If I get more into open track then a larger radiator 2-row fluidyne will definitely be necessary.

 

[jhwalker]

A couple of other folks are working on the exchangers too. I'm waiting one more month to hear about them all.

In the meantime, I have the Mezieres coming in early next week. I was trying to get an apples to apples dyno run before and after installation. May not pull it off for lack of time. :gt: :bash:

We have insufficient facts being accurately collected -- but, of course, we are not Consumer Reports either.
My damn job keeps getting in the way of proper fact collecting.

The couple of folks that I know with the Mezieres are very high on it, but have no hard data to back it up.
JW

 

[maoun]

james, i'm plannin on a meziere next week too....have you ordered it already?

m.

 

[JB]

Originally posted by jhwalker
...We have insufficient facts being accurately collected -- but, of course, we are not Consumer Reports either.
My damn job keeps getting in the way of proper fact collecting....

yeah, I hear ya...I'm in the same boat!

job gets in the way of a lot of things I'd rather be doing :shrug:

as usual, Dana makes some great points :beer:

 

[Dana]

Originally posted by Shadowgray03
Im a bit reluctact to run an electric water pump on a street car, much higher chance of failure than a mechanical one.

I'm willing to take that chance, and you are probably correct. I figure it is just one more maintanence item. Meziere figures about three years life span. That will probably be about 5 or 6 on my car though, since the mileage is limited.

The heat exchanger wont really keep engine overall cool, mainly the charge temp. I think I would look for a more efficient radiator before I went with elec water pump. But thats just me.

For added engine cooling, the radiator is the easiest, most trouble free route. But if added HP is the goal, the radiator won't matter. The electric pump will.

Dana

 

[jhwalker]

Originally posted by maoun
james, i'm plannin on a meziere next week too....have you ordered it already?

m.

Yes.
No time right now to do all the 'dyno, mod, dyno, mod, dyno' that I planned. :gt: :gt:

James

 

[Jerryk]

I've considered the Davies Craig water pump plumbed inline in my lower hose, and powered off my HE Fans relay so when my HE fans are on, my Davies Craig pump aux water pump is on. OR you could wire it to turn on when the High Speed Fan turns on which would be ideal. It weighs 1lb, is supported by the hose its plumbed into so no bracket is necessary, and adds extra coolant flow. This leaves your existing mechanical WP in tact so there is no chance of engine melt down if the single electric pump dies. If this thing does die it still doesn't restrict water flow per the manufacturer. You can find it for about $250. One day in all my spare time I'm going to add one and try it out but if anyone here beats me to the punch I wouldn't be heart broken.

http://www.daviescraig.com/main/display.asp?pid=8

Jerry

 

[Voice of Reason]

The "I don't trust electric, stick with mechanical" mentality about these water pumps is probably the same feeling everyone had about electric fuel pumps before they became so widely used. Now you wouldn't even think about putting a mechanical fuel pump on a car. Sure, there is an increased chance that something might go wrong, but the $/HP out of them is pretty good. I plan on making the swap myself this winter.

 

[Shadowgray03]

One thing to consider is "Why". What I mean by that is our pumps move a good deal of water, overheating issues with the cobra are nothing new. Our problem isnt so much volume of water the pump can move but the fact that once the water starts to boil it cavitates and no matter what pump you have boiling water isnt going to flow well increasing the problem further. The key is to keep hot spots to a minimum via a head cooling mod and a larger radiator to increase volume as well as lowered fan turn on point to make sure the water going through the radiator cools as much as possible while in the radiator. Aside from that, the next step would be a waterless coolant like evans.

 

[SlowSVT]

The Fluidyne radiator is the best mod you listed. The benefits of the electric water pump are questionable. Whatever gain you will see with the elimination of the belt driven water pump will be made up as extra drag on your alternator (nothing is free). Do a search on "electric water pump" and you will see the guys who have them see little-to-no advantage running them. Your money would be better spent elsewhere. I think the stock water pump will be more reliable. Something about electricity and very hot water don't sit well with me :nonono:

 

[badboy]

I would go with a Gords HE and a larger radiator. The HP gain from an electric pump is only at high RPM where the mechanical pump starts to drag a lot. I'm not sure how much this is worth for improved ET's.

The problem with Evans coolant is the specific heat. Nothing cools like water. The Evans coolant boils at a much higher temp (thus no vapor barier) but you need a lot more of it to carry away the same amount of heat as water. A better solution to the cooling problem is a larger radiator and better flow pattern (Apten mod or something similar).

 

[WicK]

The Fluidyne radiator is the best mod you listed. The benefits of the electric water pump are questionable. Whatever gain you will see with the elimination of the belt driven water pump will be made up as extra drag on your alternator (nothing is free). Do a search on "electric water pump" and you will see the guys who have them see little-to-no advantage running them. Your money would be better spent elsewhere. I think the stock water pump will be more reliable. Something about electricity and very hot water don't sit well with me :nonono:

i couldnt have said it beter, i wish that i never bought mine since i dont think that i really gained anything from it and i have a LED light to tell me if its working or not, (inside on the left by my air blower vent) if the light goes off i turn the motor off..

 

[SlowSVT]

Wick

I laughed my ass off when I saw they claimed 17 hp gain. Can you imagine thats what the output of a big Honda V-twin industreal engine just to drive an automobile water pump. Yea right

That is false advertising in a big way

 

[Dana]

Wick

I laughed my ass off when I saw they claimed 17 hp gain. Can you imagine thats what the output of a big Honda V-twin industreal engine just to drive an automobile water pump. Yea right

That is false advertising in a big way

We know where that came from too!!!
I also thought it was ridiculous.
As I said earlier, I would believe 5 or even 10, but no more.

Also, as you mentioned earlier, nothing is free. The alternator must work harder to make the current to power the pump, but in this case the issue of "when" enters into the picture. I want that extra few HP at the top of the 1/4 mile for those few seconds, The alternator will work a little harder but not until later. I can live with that.

BTW, how did you connect the light to warn about the pump failure? Does it just monitor the fuse or actually the pump?

Dana