"...But on a road course..!!"

[eichisama]

No my replacement (unless Ford builds something that can corner) will be even more expensive and a hell of a lot faster on the track than the 350Z.

And so what do you want? You want Ford to build you something equivalent to that for 1/2 the price? With that amount of $$$ to spend, you are in a vast minority of buyers.

By your logic, even if you add the IRS to the GT you're not going to be happy because what you want can "kill the Cobra-R, in both the 1/4 and the twisties".

And everything else be damned, the starting platform of the new Mustang is bigger & heavier than the Fox/SN95 bodied cars. It's an everyman's car, with options & packages from the high teens up to the (assumed) 40k mark.

Besides - why are you so up tight about Ford not offering IRS from the factory when we know aftermarket packages will be available? You keep saying how easy it is to add horsepower, but the mass market wants _reliable_ horsepower, not a race engine that'll eat itself in under 30k miles. We want a high-hp engine with a factory warranty! Add aftermarket power and you easily void your warranty. Add IRS and I doubt Ford will care WRT the warranty.

Again, you want Ford to build you a race car. Ford is building cars for the _public_.

 

[Fourcam330]

Nope the 350Z track comes with 300hp as well. I would gladly pay little extra for the 350Z since it has and IRS and 6 speed standard.

Then shut the hell up, buy one, and rant about Ford's on a Nissan site--I'm sure you'd find your kind of people over there too.

 

[Fourcam330]

Oh wow looks like I hit a sensitive spot there. I couldn’t care less what the hell you do. So you own a lawnmower and a shovel big deal. HMMMMM and more talk about the handling Mustang you still have yet to prove is in the pipe line. You just love making stuff up don’t you.

Yep, a big shovel/lawnmower that services 30+ corporate accounts in the metro Columbus area after only one year of being in the business (don't forget the 7 trucks/equipment I now own and the 23 people I employ), and three OSU campus properties with a total of 15 rentable units--in addition to of course my own house and personal vehicles. I'm semi retired at 26 and you're calling me white trash? :dw: :loser:

 

[01L2Cobra]

I never said it had to be under $40K. I would like to have a NA Al 5.4 DOHC, IRS, you can keep all the fancy interior crap HTT is so insistent that we need hell even remove the back seat I don’t use it, and a upgraded T56 not the one out of the 03 or 04.

 

[Fourcam330]

And so what do you want? You want Ford to build you something equivalent to that for 1/2 the price? With that amount of $$$ to spend, you are in a vast minority of buyers.

By your logic, even if you add the IRS to the GT you're not going to be happy because what you want can "kill the Cobra-R, in both the 1/4 and the twisties".

And everything else be damned, the starting platform of the new Mustang is bigger & heavier than the Fox/SN95 bodied cars. It's an everyman's car, with options & packages from the high teens up to the (assumed) 40k mark.

Besided - why are you so up tight about Ford not offering IRS from the factory when we know aftermarket packages will be available? You keep saying how easy it is to add horsepower, but the mass market wants _reliable_ horsepower, not a race engine that'll eat itself in under 30k miles. We want a high-hp engine with a factory warranty! Add aftermarket power and you easily void your warranty. Add IRS and I doubt Ford will care WRT the warranty.

Again, you want Ford to build you a race car. Ford is building cars for the _public_.

All valid points, good post.

 

[01L2Cobra]

Then shut the hell up, buy one, and rant about Ford's on a Nissan site--I'm sure you'd find your kind of people over there too.

Like I said I wouldn't own own but I would buy one over the GT.

 

[Fourcam330]

Has Hell Frozen Over Again??

I never said it had to be under $40K. I would like to have a NA Al 5.4 DOHC, IRS, you can keep all the fancy interior crap HTT is so insistent that we need hell even remove the back seat I don’t use it, and a upgraded T56 not the one out of the 03 or 04.

What happened to your beloved Cammer? The name of the game is compromise (PONY CAR) and you want a non R model to come without a back seat because "I don't use it"??? :shrug: :lol1:

 

[Last Ride]

Good Christ............. you two should just get married and get it over with already.

01L2, we understand what you are saying. Personally, I prefer the twisties also. However, I also understand the Mustangs market............ and where its priorities lie (I have been a fan for 21 years). Pick up any Mustang magazine, and you will see article after article about drag racing, building a racer, and drag race events. As much as you may not like it, this is the main market for the Mustang, and these are the people who buy the majority of the cars (performance versions). Ford would be assinine if they DIDN'T tailor their first SE Mustang to this crowd. They are in business to make money........... and frankly, big HP numbers sells.

Also, I think you are a bit wishful in how easy you think it is to just keep putting in stronger and stronger parts, or lighter parts. Strength costs money, and so does lightweight. Just how much money are you willing to spend to morph your Pony/Muscle car into a M3/Vette beater??? You want a no compromises road course terror. You want high N/A hp, with an aluminum block. This requires high compression, which requires higher dollar parts. You want aluminum blocks that will hold up to anything. You do realize how expensive that is, right??? You want Ford GT equivelant rear IRS rear suspension............... in a $40K car.............. huh??? You want the car to be lightweight like the Z06, but Ford isn't allowed to charge you more for the carbon fiber, or aluminum.............. huh??? Yes Ford did it in the GT............. but that car costs $150K and Ford doesn't make much money on it.

I understand that we all want to have our cake, and eat it too. In the market that the Mustang plays in, the compromises necessary just do not let that happen. You will never get your 3300lb, 06/07/08, 500hp, 1G skidpad, 60-0 in 95ft, $35K Mustang. It will NEVER happen from the factory. No amount of complaining will make it so. GM couldn't build the Z06 for $35K............... and neither can Ford.

Thus, if I get a new gen Mustang, I will just do what I did with my '91 GT. Build it to be what I want it to be. In the end, I will have a Mustang that is uniquely mine. Remember, getting there is half the fun.

BTW, your assertion that it will only run in the low 60mph range in the slalom is mearly a case of guessing. My '01, 4700lb, VERY high profile Lightning will pull 61.3mph with a worse weight distribution. If a 3800lb Mustang can't do better than that............ then they shouldn't even build it.

Gal--
I nominate YOU for the Beacon of Reality Award.... :beer:

Bryan

 

[01L2Cobra]

Yep, a big shovel/lawnmower that services 30+ corporate accounts in the metro Columbus area after only one year of being in the business (don't forget the 7 trucks/equipment I now own), and three OSU campus properties with a total of 15 rentable units--in addition to of course my own house and personal vehicles. I'm semi retired at 26 and you're calling me white trash? :dw: :loser:

Yep I sure am. Just because you own and do all that doesn't mean you are not. The street racing that you seem to be so big on is the main reason.

 

[Fourcam330]

Yep I sure am. Just because you own and do all that doesn't mean you are not. The street racing that you seem to be so big on is the main reason.

ROFL, so the Doctors, Lawyers, and other pillars of society that own and race TT Vipers/Vettes, AMG Mercs, M Bimmers, 911 TTs and other super exotics on the highway are really just White Trash in disguise? :shrug: Possibly your worst argument yet.
In actuality I haven't street raced in over two years (if you don't count the Exploder I smoked in the F150 last week ;-) ), though the sport is American as apple pie. Instead of wasting your $ buidling your car to a mediocre level because of class rules/regs you can construct the best possible performer on all levels.

 

[01L2Cobra]

What happened to your beloved Cammer? The name of the game is compromise (PONY CAR) and you want a non R model to come without a back seat because "I don't use it"??? :shrug: :lol1:

I would love to have the cammer but the AL 5.4 is more of a reality than getting the cammer. That’s right I don’t want a back seat the thing never gets used (well sometimes). Removing it from the factory saves weight and money. Hell I wouldn't even want leather seats in the thing.

 

[01L2Cobra]

ROFL, so the Doctors, Lawyers, and other pillars of society that own and race TT Vipers/Vettes and super exotics on the highway are really just White Trash in disguise? :shrug: Possibly your worst argument yet.

Hey if you can't keep it on the track then yes I am saying that. It doesn't matter how much money you have it’s the attitude more than anything.

 

[eichisama]

All valid points, good post.

:beer: Thanks Fourcam.

01L2Cobra - What you described really is a new Cobra-R. We all understand that you want an all-out race car. Sadly, Cobra-Rs only come out every what, 5 years or so? There really is an extremely limited market for them.

The fact is that you're here in this forum, so obviously there's something you like about Mustangs. What is it, exactly, that you _do_ like? I mean, regarding weight the '05s are just heavier than its predecessors, and they already come with an Al hood. Are you wishing Ford had stayed with a smaller/lighter car?

From what you describe, you're in that minority that thought the original prototype 2-seater Mustang was "the best car ever made". It was exactly that reason that ford chose to NOT make that car - it wasn't something for the mass-market.

Bottom line is, it's the V-6 model that makes the GT and others afforable for the rest of us. A lot of those cars you refer to as "competitors" don't have an offering in the sub-30k range, let alone the sub-20s.

We understand that you feel SVT let you down regarding the vision of an all-out performance car. Keep in mind, however, that SVT is NOT SVO/Ford Racing.

Also, it sounds like you won't be happy with anything other than IRS - is that accurate? I think that's what HTT was referring to when he said "those IRS snobs" - people who just won't settle for anything other than IRS, no matter how good the alternative is. I and others would love an IRS too, but the difference is we're taking into account the entire car, not focusing on just one point. *shrug*

Like we said, you'll just have to wait until Ford figures out the tuning of their IRS and offers it (I mean really, they can't go to production with an IRS that isn't better than the SRA or the old IRS, and they can't hold production up waiting for it!) or you'll have to go buy an alternative. That's life...

 

[Fourcam330]

I would love to have the cammer but the AL 5.4 is more of a reality than getting the cammer. That’s right I don’t want a back seat the thing never gets used (well sometimes). Removing it from the factory saves weight and money. Hell I wouldn't even want leather seats in the thing.

I don't use mine either, however the point is that you don't understand the meaning of the word "compromise." Instead of wasting all your time/energy bitching about what you can't change, spend it finding ways making the present situation better. Why not help the straight line guys figure out some weight reduction mods, or how to step it up with their suspensions to compensate for the extra mass?
Also, the GT block currently has no provisions for a wet sump oiling system, making the $3100 Aviad dry sump a necessity. The GT block being 356 is also very expensive ($2400-3000) and requires starter boss modification (to work in a Mustang). It is a full on race block though, and for the $ it's a steal.

 

[AbusiveWombat]

:beer: Thanks Fourcam.

01L2Cobra - What you described really is a new Cobra-R. We all understand that you want an all-out race car. Sadly, Cobra-Rs only come out every what, 5 years or so? There really is an extremely limited market for them.

The fact is that you're here in this forum, so obviously there's something you like about Mustangs. What is it, exactly, that you _do_ like? I mean, regarding weight the '05s are just heavier than its predecessors, and they already come with an Al hood. Are you wishing Ford had stayed with a smaller/lighter car?

From what you describe, you're in that minority that thought the original prototype 2-seater Mustang was "the best car ever made". It was exactly that reason that ford chose to NOT make that car - it wasn't something for the mass-market.

Bottom line is, it's the V-6 model that makes the GT and others afforable for the rest of us. A lot of those cars you refer to as "competitors" don't have an offering in the sub-30k range, let alone the sub-20s.

We understand that you feel SVT let you down regarding the vision of an all-out performance car. Keep in mind, however, that SVT is NOT SVO/Ford Racing.

Also, it sounds like you won't be happy with anything other than IRS - is that accurate? I think that's what HTT was referring to when he said "those IRS snobs" - people who just won't settle for anything other than IRS, no matter how good the alternative is. I and others would love an IRS too, but the difference is we're taking into account the entire car, not focusing on just one point. *shrug*

Like we said, you'll just have to wait until Ford figures out the tuning of their IRS and offers it (I mean really, they can't go to production with an IRS that isn't better than the SRA or the old IRS, and they can't hold production up waiting for it!) or you'll have to go buy an alternative. That's life...

:beer: Great post.

 

[Fourcam330]

:beer: Great post.

I couldn't agree more, logic wins again! :thumbsup:

 

[Fourcam330]

Hey if you can't keep it on the track then yes I am saying that. It doesn't matter how much money you have it’s the attitude more than anything.

:thumbsup: :rollseyes Tell Treynor he's WT. :lol1:

 

[NinetySixSVT]

I couldn't agree more, logic wins again! :thumbsup:

Oh yeah?? Just wait...

 

[Fourcam330]

Oh yeah?? Just wait...

LOL, sad but true. ;-)

 

[01L2Cobra]

01L2Cobra - What you described really is a new Cobra-R. We all understand that you want an all-out race car. Sadly, Cobra-Rs only come out every what, 5 years or so? There really is an extremely limited market for them.

Who said it had to be an R? Remember that the R’s not only were set up to race but also had considerably more Hp than the regular Cobra. If Ford were to produce a car similar to an R it would sell out each year. Look at how hard it has been to get an R when the come out. If there is such an extremely limited market there wouldn’t have been the wait and not as many people disappointed that they didn’t get one.

The fact is that you're here in this forum, so obviously there's something you like about Mustangs. What is it, exactly, that you _do_ like? I mean, regarding weight the '05s are just heavier than its predecessors, and they already come with an Al hood. Are you wishing Ford had stayed with a smaller/lighter car?

Yes I wish the Mustang was smaller and lighter but who doesn’t? I like my 01 for what it is. It’s the best balanced most powerful NA (non R) Cobra ever.

We understand that you feel SVT let you down regarding the vision of an all-out performance car. Keep in mind, however, that SVT is NOT SVO/Ford Racing.

SVT up till now has tired their best to produce a more rounded performance car than what the GT is. 03 was the start of the down fall. Now we get a “SVT” that is a GT with 200+hp and fancy interior nothing more.

Also, it sounds like you won't be happy with anything other than IRS - is that accurate? I think that's what HTT was referring to when he said "those IRS snobs" - people who just won't settle for anything other than IRS, no matter how good the alternative is. I and others would love an IRS too, but the difference is we're taking into account the entire car, not focusing on just one point. *shrug*

No I just wont settle for compromised SRA when the platform as originally designed to have a IRS. The SRA from the factory will never be able to handle as well as the IRS. It not a snob thing it’s a performance thing.

Like we said, you'll just have to wait until Ford figures out the tuning of their IRS and offers it (I mean really, they can't go to production with an IRS that isn't better than the SRA or the old IRS, and they can't hold production up waiting for it!) or you'll have to go buy an alternative. That's life...

They have one they need to start offering it in a Mustang.