Current state of Wealth Distribution in the USA

[kcsvt94l]

Essentially making this thread to get opinion's of folks or perhaps maybe educate some folks. This stemmed from me posing the question to Treynor and he asked me to create a thread for sake of discussion.

Personally, I'm a very blessed middle class guy who lives what I would consider a very comfortable financial lifestyle, my wife and I both work full time for an combined income of 74,999-100K/year. I am in no way disrespecting his or anyone of his net worth level's success or questioning their integrity nor do I have any jealous towards it. I'm merely posing the question, how much money is just simply too much ? Would the world be a better place w/o $1.5 million dollar cars, $50 million dollar homes, and $50,000 watches? He said it was a good question and would be happy to discuss, so I'm curious to see his thoughts regarding this matter?


I'd attached this video for sake of Summation.

[video=youtube;QPKKQnijnsM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM[/video]


Ben thanks for being willing to share your thoughts on the matter. Top notch guy as always!

 

[Dirks9901]

There's already wealth distribution in America. It's called taxes chief.

Side note: This thread probably isn't going to in well and inb4 sd

 

[Machdup1]

You always see this before an election. If someone has a billion dollars, what business is it of anyone else. What would entitle anyone else to that person's money.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Simply put, no man has any right to tell me what I can and can't have within reasonable parameters of the law. Money is more beneficial than harmless in the hands of most so for the law to dictate how much I can have is unreasonable and a violation of my rights imo.

 

[kcsvt94l]

There's already wealth distribution in America. It's called taxes chief.

Side note: This thread probably isn't going to in well and inb4 sd

So you're saying you feel the current state of taxation is providing sufficient wealth distribution ?

Did you watch the video ?

If so, awesome I appreciate the feedback!

There is no reason for this post to go to SD. I'd request SID to nix the post entirely before that were to happen, if folks don't have the ability to interject constructively. I'll have zero response to their feedback, no need for hostility

 

[kcsvt94l]

You always see this before an election. If someone has a billion dollars, what business is it of anyone else. What would entitle anyone else to that person's money.

Appreciate the feedback man!

Do you feel that it's a possibility that insider trading helps several of the top 1% continue to grow their investments?
If so, do you feel that should be legal ?

 

[kcsvt94l]

Simply put, no man has any right to tell me what I can and can't have within reasonable parameters of the law. Money is more beneficial than harmless in the hands of most so for the law to dictate how much I can have is unreasonable and a violation of my rights imo.

Appreciate the feedback!

So you feel a more balanced distribution of wealth isn't possible without a blatant violation of rights ?

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

While we are on the topic of inequality, lets look at the total federal tax burden. e will divide all filers into 5 income quintiles.

1. This is what most Americans think the distribution of taxes look like. At least they act how that is. According to a Gallup poll, most people think lower and middle class Americans either pay their fare share or too much. While 62% think the rich don't pay enough. Because well...we all know they pay less then their secretaries do.

2. This is what most Americans consider the ideal tax distribution should be.

3. Now lets take a look at reality. Yes that is right. The top quintile covers 68% of all federal tax liabilities including the social insurance portion. The bottom 3 quintiles barely pay 15%.

You may have a hard time wrapping your mind around this chart. So lets look at it another way. Lets have 100 people and again have them represent the 5 income quintiles. Now lets reduce the total individual federal income tax liability -- which was roughly $866B USD in 2009 -- to this symbolic pile of cash.

And then lets distribute that tax bill equally among our 100 Americans.

Here is socialism. Where everyone would have to cough up an equal share of taxes to pay for the crypto-socialist government. We all know that wont work, because well, a lot of these people aren't going to work.

Now lets forget about what Americans want or think for a moment. Because they are going to be wrong on both counts.

Lets look at the actual distribution of the individual federal income tax liability is.

The bottom two quintiles not only don't pay anything, but get money from the government. The middle class doesn't pay much either, which is surprising considering how much they whine about tax rates. Remember this is the arrangement where the average American thinks he either pays too much or just enough. While 62% of Americans think the rich pay too little. The top 10% pays 70% of all individual taxes. The top 1%? He pays 37% of the taxes. More then the entire bottom 90% combined.

Sources:
CBO | The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2008 and 2009
Tax Statistics
Taxes | Gallup Historical Trends
Yes, the Rich Are Different | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

 

[96dreamer]

^^^^^
Well said. I don't make millions nor am i likely ever to make millions but i live comfortably and i'm ok with that. I don't think i deserve any one elses money just because some say what they have is excessive.

 

[B0B]

Distributing the wealth further will only diminish the value of the dollar. Do you think prices on consumables, products, vehicles, and anything else will stay the same if all of a sudden your income triples? It won't.

 

[kcsvt94l]

While we are on the topic of inequality, lets look at the total federal tax burden. e will divide all filers into 5 income quintiles.

1. This is what most Americans think the distribution of taxes look like. At least they act how that is. According to a Gallup poll, most people think lower and middle class Americans either pay their fare share or too much. While 62% think the rich don't pay enough. Because well...we all know they pay less then their secretaries do.

2. This is what most Americans consider the ideal tax distribution should be.

3. Now lets take a look at reality. Yes that is right. The top quintile covers 68% of all federal tax liabilities including the social insurance portion. The bottom 3 quintiles barely pay 15%.

You may have a hard time wrapping your mind around this chart. So lets look at it another way. Lets have 100 people and again have them represent the 5 income quintiles. Now lets reduce the total individual federal income tax liability -- which was roughly $866B USD in 2009 -- to this symbolic pile of cash.

And then lets distribute that tax bill equally among our 100 Americans.

Here is socialism. Where everyone would have to cough up an equal share of taxes to pay for the crypto-socialist government. We all know that wont work, because well, a lot of these people aren't going to work.

Now lets forget about what Americans want or think for a moment. Because they are going to be wrong on both counts.

Lets look at the actual distribution of the individual federal income tax liability is.

The bottom two quintiles not only don't pay anything, but get money from the government. The middle class doesn't pay much either, which is surprising considering how much they whine about tax rates. Remember this is the arrangement where the average American thinks he either pays too much or just enough. While 62% of Americans think the rich pay too little. The top 10% pays 70% of all individual taxes. The top 1%? He pays 37% of the taxes. More then the entire bottom 90% combined.

Sources:
CBO | The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2008 and 2009
Tax Statistics
Taxes | Gallup Historical Trends
Yes, the Rich Are Different | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

Thank you for posting this, I was also intending on posting the same thing at some point.

So, based on both the Wealth Inequality and Tax Inequality examples. Do you feel that the current state of taxation is designed to benefit the people ?

Let me rephrase, do you feel the current state of taxation is doing a sufficient job of creating a balanced distribution of wealth ?

 

[thomas91169]

While we are on the topic of inequality, lets look at the total federal tax burden. e will divide all filers into 5 income quintiles.

1. This is what most Americans think the distribution of taxes look like. At least they act how that is. According to a Gallup poll, most people think lower and middle class Americans either pay their fare share or too much. While 62% think the rich don't pay enough. Because well...we all know they pay less then their secretaries do.

2. This is what most Americans consider the ideal tax distribution should be.

3. Now lets take a look at reality. Yes that is right. The top quintile covers 68% of all federal tax liabilities including the social insurance portion. The bottom 3 quintiles barely pay 15%.

You may have a hard time wrapping your mind around this chart. So lets look at it another way. Lets have 100 people and again have them represent the 5 income quintiles. Now lets reduce the total individual federal income tax liability -- which was roughly $866B USD in 2009 -- to this symbolic pile of cash.

And then lets distribute that tax bill equally among our 100 Americans.

Here is socialism. Where everyone would have to cough up an equal share of taxes to pay for the crypto-socialist government. We all know that wont work, because well, a lot of these people aren't going to work.

Now lets forget about what Americans want or think for a moment. Because they are going to be wrong on both counts.

Lets look at the actual distribution of the individual federal income tax liability is.

The bottom two quintiles not only don't pay anything, but get money from the government. The middle class doesn't pay much either, which is surprising considering how much they whine about tax rates. Remember this is the arrangement where the average American thinks he either pays too much or just enough. While 62% of Americans think the rich pay too little. The top 10% pays 70% of all individual taxes. The top 1%? He pays 37% of the taxes. More then the entire bottom 90% combined.

Sources:
CBO | The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2008 and 2009
Tax Statistics
Taxes | Gallup Historical Trends
Yes, the Rich Are Different | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

Boom.

Id like to see average income correlation to these quintiles though. Hard to know where I stand as a taxpayer.

 

[Zemedici]

While we are on the topic of inequality, lets look at the total federal tax burden. e will divide all filers into 5 income quintiles.

1. This is what most Americans think the distribution of taxes look like. At least they act how that is. According to a Gallup poll, most people think lower and middle class Americans either pay their fare share or too much. While 62% think the rich don't pay enough. Because well...we all know they pay less then their secretaries do.

2. This is what most Americans consider the ideal tax distribution should be.

3. Now lets take a look at reality. Yes that is right. The top quintile covers 68% of all federal tax liabilities including the social insurance portion. The bottom 3 quintiles barely pay 15%.

You may have a hard time wrapping your mind around this chart. So lets look at it another way. Lets have 100 people and again have them represent the 5 income quintiles. Now lets reduce the total individual federal income tax liability -- which was roughly $866B USD in 2009 -- to this symbolic pile of cash.

And then lets distribute that tax bill equally among our 100 Americans.

Here is socialism. Where everyone would have to cough up an equal share of taxes to pay for the crypto-socialist government. We all know that wont work, because well, a lot of these people aren't going to work.

Now lets forget about what Americans want or think for a moment. Because they are going to be wrong on both counts.

Lets look at the actual distribution of the individual federal income tax liability is.

The bottom two quintiles not only don't pay anything, but get money from the government. The middle class doesn't pay much either, which is surprising considering how much they whine about tax rates. Remember this is the arrangement where the average American thinks he either pays too much or just enough. While 62% of Americans think the rich pay too little. The top 10% pays 70% of all individual taxes. The top 1%? He pays 37% of the taxes. More then the entire bottom 90% combined.

Sources:
CBO | The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2008 and 2009
Tax Statistics
Taxes | Gallup Historical Trends
Yes, the Rich Are Different | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

:beer:

I wish there was a standing ovation smiley.

The wealth distribution is 'satisfactory' (for lack of a better word) as it sits. A person's income is directly related (at least in the internet and entertainment industry) to how much money they bring in. Hence why actors get paid Millions for making one movie, boxers make millions for one fight, etc etc. Network Execs (like Treynor) manage a multi billion dollar department of one of the largest companies in the world. If you feel you can just jump right into those shoes and fill them, then by all means do it. However, that's not realistic. These people have a certain set of skills that they have acquired through specialized schooling/work experiences/orientations/seminars/and years of on the job training. It takes work to get to this point, and not everyone can do it. Hence why they get paid what they do.

If you're unhappy with your current financial stature, you and only you can change that. :beer: No such thing as a 'free lunch'

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Thank you for posting this, I was also intending on posting the same thing at some point.

So, based on both the Wealth Inequality and Tax Inequality examples. Do you feel that the current state of taxation is designed to benefit the people ?

Let me rephrase, do you feel the current state of taxation is doing a sufficient job of creating a balanced distribution of wealth ?

The best system is a flat tax system. It wont ever happen though.

 

[Stanley]

Why does there need to be a balanced distribution of wealth?

 

[kcsvt94l]

Distributing the wealth further will only diminish the value of the dollar. Do you think prices on consumables, products, vehicles, and anything else will stay the same if all of a sudden your income triples? It won't.

I agree completely and that's where the problem arrises. Just because wages go up thus stimulating income, prices go up across the board to compensate, therefor we never leverage the gap. Let me ask you this ? Do wages go up as often as the vast majority of prices ?

 

[Zemedici]

Why does there need to be a balanced distribution of wealth?

to make 'not as successful' people feel important it seems. Its all about the 'give me give me' mindset. :shrug: I'm 'young' by most of your standards and I dont have that mindset.

I agree completely and that's where the problem arrises. Just because wages go up thus stimulating income, prices go up across the board to compensate, therefor we never leverage the gap. Let me ask you this ? Do wages go up as often as the vast majority of prices ?

If wages went up with inflation/supply-demand, then the prices would go up that much further, because the products would cost that much more to make, you see?

 

[kcsvt94l]

Why does there need to be a balanced distribution of wealth?

balanced is a relative term, like the video says Socialism isn't the key, either. I do however feel, that there is a major opportunity to become far more balanced while staying leaps and bounds from socialism.

I don't think a 17 year old mixing shakes should make 20 bucks an hour. I also don't think anyone in the world is worth 1,000 per hour.

 

[kcsvt94l]

to make 'not as successful' people feel important it seems. Its all about the 'give me give me' mindset. :shrug: I'm 'young' by most of your standards and I dont have that mindset.



If wages went up with inflation/supply-demand, then the prices would go up that much further, because the products would cost that much more to make, you see?

Again that's part of the problem, big business refuses to see profit margins take a hit no matter the size.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Appreciate the feedback!

So you feel a more balanced distribution of wealth isn't possible without a blatant violation of rights ?

I'm opposed to basically all distribution of wealth, as in my tax dollars going to those who refuse to work. I can get on board with providing financial aid to the handicapped and to the military who actually paid a price, but outside of that I'm very much against it. Handouts breed laziness as we see now in our country's current state. I want my tax dollars to go to military, construction projects that create jobs, and research for medical and scientific advancement. There are more examples of course but basically there should be a flat tax or just a sales tax and that tax money should be used to build and expand, not allow lazy asses to do nothing for a paycheck every month. I firmly believe in 'you get what you work for'.