DenseCharger-Univer Combo on during my dyno day

OverToad

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John vehemently wanted me to post my results, no matter what they were, so at his request, I will.......

I've identified two unfortunate problems in regards to the legitimacy of my dyno runs. First, I believe my exhaust has clogged cats, since my last two dyno sessions have seen my numbers decrease, despite better products, and what should be improvements due to the break-in period. I believe any of the people that were at the dyno day would agree with me in this regard, since my exhaust doesn't sound quite right compared to other Cobra's that were there with nearly identical systems.

What's more, this unit, to the best of my knowledge, is the first one of it's kind to be tried on an 03 Cobra, and the fitting of it is in need of further R&D. The meter pipe itself is about 2" too long. This resulted in me being forced to call a friend from around the block to come help me install the unit. He had to use both hands and force the entire assembly toards the TB in order for me to even be able to hook the filter to the pipe. Literally, if I needed 1/8" more in order to get the filter on, I wouldn't have been able to. This, obviously, resulted in a test that wouldn't/couldn't produce any reliable evidence. Due to this unfortunate set of circumstances, it's useless to post the numbers, since they are flawed.

The only bits of evidence that I CAN legitimately report are my A/F ratio during the dyno run (though because of the above mentioned circumstances, I would question that also) and the issues with drivability, hesitations, and idle fluctuation.

My A/F was very slightly leaner down low, but richened up as it worked across the power band. With the meter, I don't believe it will further lean out a car. But because I literally had to mash the meter tubing all the way together, it could have easily caused problems. I'm not enough of an expert to form a hypothesis regarding this, but there's the results.

As for drivability, I can tell you that my car has never had as nice an idle as I've had the past couple of days with this unit on the car! When the car was purchased brand new, I was so concerned with the idle that I had one of the better service advisors put the car through a few hours worth of tests. The report that came back was that the rough idle was normal for these new Cobra's. Turns out that it's the truth, since I've seen numerous complaints regarding same. With the original DC on my car, I had some very slight idle roughness. However, with the Univer on the car, my idle was steadier than the day I drove it off the dealership.

My only conclusion is that I can't wait until I can get a better fitted meter, and get my exhaust system figured out, so that I can match the potential of the Univer to my car. For myself, I'd pay the extra money just to get the idle where the Univer put it. That may not be for everyone, but I had issues (obviously) with the rough idle. I also privately wonder if having the filter mashed against the fender well didn't hurt it's air intake.

I can't produce reliable data on this set of runs, but I can tell you that the idle and drivability improvements are there!

We're going to do another dyno day in the next few weeks. John may choose to send a Gen-2 Univer to a different owner, which may not be a bad idea since my exhaust is having some kind of problem, but if he doesn't, I'll try and report more at the next dyno day.
 

CobraBob

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What can cause the cats to clog? I never heard of this before.
 

2kbill

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Originally posted by OverToad
John vehemently wanted me to post my results, no matter what they were, so at his request, I will.......

I don't see em... the dyno results, that is..

Bill
 

Uncle Meat

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OverToad... I thought you were going to run the Uni with the Densecharger? You stated: He had to use both hands and force the entire assembly toards the TB in order for me to even be able to hook the filter to the pipe. Am I to understand you were running a filter straight off the Uni? I'm a little confused? What exactly makes up your intake from TB to filter? I thought you were going to test the Uni & DC?

:shrug:

U.M.
 

slythetove

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It was the DC with the Uni.

He just means it's so VERY tight that getting the thing to back up enough to put the filter on underneath was really hard.
 

RedfireVenom

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Hmm, I'm sure there a couple of people like me with there stock hpipes sittiing in the garage. Maybe you could swap them out with someone else for the test. That passenger side bolt can be a bitch though.
 

OverToad

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We were workin' on three Cobra's last night until 1:30am, our dyno day started at 8:30 this morning, and as is usually the case when you "try" to fall asleep, I stared at the ceiling until about 5am, so I'm just waking my sorry a$$ back up.............

2kbill:
He wanted me to post results, not necessarily exact dyno numbers. If I truly believed that all the variable were right in order to get a correct set of numbers, I'd post them good, bad, or ugly. However, the entire Univer is 1 1/2-2" too long. I have no room left to jam it up into the stock tubing, and the filter that sits in the fenderwell is sitting against the opening.
John and I talked about this before he even sent it, but we figured we'd try it anyway. It's still a test product, and the more we test, the quicker the product gets ready for consumer use :)

SocalBlack and Redfire:
My very first dyno run in this car was with Bassani catback/xpipe/silencer in. It'll take me about 2 minutes to put the stock box back on, and the guys at the dyno shop are used to me by now and have given me the green light to just drop on by and they'd do what they can to help out. So Instead of going to the trouble of throwing on my old H-pipe (yeah, can you believe I was actually smart enough to keep it??), I can simply put it back to the first dyno's condition, and check it that way.

UM:
I was 1/2 asleep when I wrote that, so no doubt it's jumbled and not making sense. My apologies......
The Univer takes the place of the factory meter and tube. The 4 bolts on the DC just screw into the Univer at the bottom, and the filter sits inside the fenderwell in the "Up" position.
The problem's that the damn thing is several inches longer than the factory meter pipe :nonono: So when I said my buddy had to push it in, I mean he had to stand in front of the car, reaching into the hood, holding the bended DC pipe, and pushing it as hard as he could, just so that I could *barely* reach up under the weatherguard, mash the filter into the DC ring, and tighten the band before he could let go. The end result is that the Univer doesn't sit flush in the stock tubing, the filter is up against the inside of the fenderwell (ie: likely only drawing air through 70% of the filter) with the entire DC pipe rubbing against the opening.

When putting the stock airbox back on, I'll try and remember to take pictures of it just for reference.
 

JP DEMOLET

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I checked with Pro-M last week as to when the 2nd generation would be sent. It still wasn't ready. I'll follow up with them Monday.

I was afraid of fitment problems when I received the demo Univer. However the 2nd generation will be much shorter and closer to stock sizing.

I can modify the TB pipes I produce for the 96-01 Cobras to enable a correct fitment and will do this next and have more dyno testing forthcoming.

Overtoads A/F ratio has been showing lean at lower RPM and rich at upper RPM, very much in line with other stock dyno graphs, with the DC.

The tune FORD has on these 03's SUCKS!

We finished our testing on the smaller Bullett 75 meters with completely different results: +6-7 hp gains with remarkably consistent A/F ratios on a Cobra (fully preped 320 hp 5.0) and a mostly stock 5.0.

I'll get the 2nd generation meter fitment question resolved and have a 'tuner' included in the next dyno session to enable complete A/f ratio control.

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!

At least this gives me a good baseline in reference to the 'drivability' concerns.
 
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Uncle Meat

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OverToad - Thanks for the break down on the fitment issue! I COMPLETELY forgot you were running the DC in the "Up" configuration. What do you think the fitment would be like for us who run the DC in the "Down" position?

J.P. - Thanks for working so close with OverToad on this project and letting him post his results. Most folks don't ever get to see the trials and tribulations of product design while it's actually happening. I'll bet a lot of people don't even realize what has to happen before a new product is made available for public consumption! It goes to show you truely believe in customer satisfaction. :thumbsup:

I think the results thus far are pretty positive and I look forward to reading more as it unfolds.

U.M.
 

JP DEMOLET

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Thanks Uncle meat!

We tested 6 different adhesives for the 'carbon fiber to plastic backing plates' on the 03' systems which was a hugh pain in the butt. You have to test through many variables before finding the optimum choice.

We're going to try something completely different with the next Univer testing :

2nd generation Univer/ 9" or 12" Pro-M openended filter/ underhood meter adapter (which will enable spinning during dyno testing for optimum dial-in on the factory meters, not necessay on the Univer) to see just how this compares to the 6" K&N inner-fender setup with the modified Cobras.

I've curious as to the dyno gains of the 'up' position 6" K&N on the modified Cobras as this variable wasn't tested.

I have many customers racing 96'- 01' Cobras with feedback relating a preference to this position with calibrated aftermarket meters.

This is part of the reason I'm now having Pro-M calibrate to my specs to enable further tuning with the system.

I'll post all the Univer testing results, GOOD or BAD, as correct baselines, and further testing will enable a system with unlimited performance margins, unless you hit the 800 hp limit with the Univer!

The nicest thing is that this may very well also be a 50 state legal, and WARRANTY FRIENDLY system!

I'll just have to show my Ford dealer accounts that it will address the drivability problems on the 03's at the same time.

THANKS TO OVERTOADS' HELP!!!!
 
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OverToad

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UM, Once the Gen-2 Univer is fitted correctly from Pro-M, the DC in the down position should be just as exact as with the stock meter.

Welcome to demo land :)

Likewise, thanks JP :thumbsup:
 

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