Do all mono blade throttle bodies have high idle issues?

[MalcolmV8]

1. Warm up car
2. Turn engine off and REMOVE THE KEY
3. Disconnect negative lead from battery and turn head lights on( this removes the capacitive charge in the system)
4. Connect negative lead to battery
5. Back off the stop screw on the throttle body
6. Start car
7.While grasping the throttle lever with your hand, give it a small amount of throttle and let off SLOWLY.
8. Adjust the stop screw to just meet the lever and give it another 1/8-1/4 turn and, then lock it down.
9. Turn ignition off.
10. Turn key to "ON" position and check TPS voltage. Set to .980 Volts with a Digital Multimeter (Fluke Meters are the most accurate)
11. Turn key off.
12. Repeat steps 1-4 to reset ECU.
13. Turn off Adaptive Learning in your tune so you can make the proper adjustments without the ECU making them for you. (Your tuner should know how to do this)
14. Datalog ISC duty cycle: this value tells you how much the IAC valve is having to stay open in order to control idle. ideally you want to be around 35%.
15. Datalog Idle air integrator- this is a value that correlates with the idle air neutral table values in your tune. They should be fairly close to zero. If it’s negative then you need to take air out of the ISC tables, if it’s positive then you need to add air into the tables. It’ll never be exactly zero. Allow the car to be at operating temp and idling for a few minutes before making a decision on this. In layman's terms- the integrator could be telling your ecu that more air is coming in than what is actually coming in- causing your high idle.
16. Turn on Adaptive Learning in your tune and drive car as you normally would so that the ECU can relearn again.

This process alone would take weeks, probably months. Every time I request an update from my tuner it takes over 2 weeks it seems. Heck I've had my whipple on my car for ahh over 2 months now and I've yet to even drive the car. Each tune revision gets closer and the mixer gets closer to a driveable state but with 2 plus weeks between updates it's gonna be next winter before I can drive this car.
So today I said fug it and called SCT and ordered the software to tune the car myself. Racers Pro or something they called it. So anyhow hopefully I can get the idle corrected on my own now and get this sucker rolling.

 

[04sleeper]

That's why I choose to tune my own car as well.

I highly recommend buying Don LaSota's Training Disc. He could even set you up a base tune as well.

 

[encasedmetal]

OP- as you know, 04sleeper uses SCT PRP, and so do I. the learning curve is steep. however, I'm sure 04sleeper would be willing to guide you some and so will I. just PM me if you have questions. or email me at [email protected].

 

[ugotbit03]

That's why I choose to tune my own car as well.

I highly recommend buying Don LaSota's Training Disc. He could even set you up a base tune as well.

Exactly.

I also recommend the LaSota SCT tuning guide, lot's of good info you can use to get your combo sorted out. I have the disc and guide and they are both good to have in the tool box. Of corse don't stop there, read every bit of tuning info you can fine and buy as many books you can find. There is no such thing as too much when it comes to tuning. Just make sure your getting info from good sources.

I know LaSota offers PRP suppourt if you buy the PRP from him direct.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Thanks guys. I found the his video and saw there's also manuals on his site too.

LaSota Racing Training Video; EFI Tuning Guide

I tuned the Honda you see in my sig myself using Hondata S300 (if you want to google it) so I have an idea about the learning curve. I've also tinkered a little with tweecer and the old ECC editors from the fox body days so I knew there'd be another big learning curve but as you guys say it's well worth it in the end.

That training video looks great. I'll definitely order that.

 

[ugotbit03]

Thanks guys. I found the his video and saw there's also manuals on his site too.

LaSota Racing Training Video; EFI*Tuning Guide

I tuned the Honda you see in my sig myself using Hondata S300 (if you want to google it) so I have an idea about the learning curve. I've also tinkered a little with tweecer and the old ECC editors from the fox body days so I knew there'd be another big learning curve but as you guys say it's well worth it in the end.

That training video looks great. I'll definitely order that.

I haven't watched the video in some time, but personally I like the manual he offers better. The manual offers more current, up to date things and more raw tuning info.

The video takes you right through step by step building the tune, but once you play around with the software it's not that hard to navigate.

 

[encasedmetal]

I used both and the greg banish book. I am probably alone in saying I didn't get a whole lot out of the greg banish book after watching the DVD and reading Don's new manual

 

[Blueline]

I have to agree with you guys on this being a tuning issue. When I first bolted up my accufab after my Whipple install, it would hang while returning to idle, sometimes idles high etc. My tuner told me not to worry about it, it would be taken care of in the tune. I picked the car up after tuning and viola! The car idled, reved and returned to idle perfect. I wish I could take the plunge to tune the car myself, but my tuner is local and very easy to get a hold of. Good luck Malcolm, you will be tearing up the streets before you know it lol

 

[ugotbit03]

I used both and the greg banish book. I am probably alone in saying I didn't get a whole lot out of the greg banish book after watching the DVD and reading Don's new manual

I also have the Banish book. It is a great theroy book and explains the why and how. I think LaSota's video and SCT book are great as it applies directly to the SCT software.

Tuning is one thing, but troubleshooting is another. That's where understanding the inputs and outputs of the PCM and what the PCM is doing with this information comes into play.

Banish also has a Ford tuning DVD, but pricey at $200.

 

[MalcolmV8]

My tuning software arrives today from SCT so I'll start playing with it over the weekend and then see what I want to order. I'm thinking the LaSota DVD and and printed manual to start with. They're not super expensive and I'd like to have a solid foundation to start with.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Tuning software PRP arrived about 2 hours ago. Have been tinkering around it. At first glance pretty cool. I need to figure out the few basics like injectors and return fuel system, slot mass air to get a very base tune just to start the car. I should have started this years ago when the car was stock or dang close to it lol.
Exciting stuff. I'm tempted to just order LaSota's online PDF format manual but it's $75 and says you can't print, copy etc. etc. Online version only. Humm I really want an actual paper printed copy but that's $80. No point in buying it twice. Guess I will be patient and order the paper copy and just keep tinkering around in the software on my own right now.

 

[ugotbit03]

I hear you. I like the print version as well, because I can highlight, make notes, ect.

Your combo has a lot going on, return fuel system, big injectors and the MAF.

What MAF are you using? I know you are going to have to modify the MAF file due to the larger housing, 123mm correct?

You have a wideband?

 

[MalcolmV8]

I hear you. I like the print version as well, because I can highlight, make notes, ect.

Your combo has a lot going on, return fuel system, big injectors and the MAF.

What MAF are you using? I know you are going to have to modify the MAF file due to the larger housing, 123mm correct?

You have a wideband?

Yes I have the whipple 2.9 crusher setup which I believe is indeed a 123 mm mass air housing and a 160 mm throttle body. I have the SCT BA-5000 sensor in there. In terms of tuning it is a little bit of a challenge.
bored 0.20 over with 19cc pistons (slight lower than stock CR). 80 lb siemen deka injectors, return fuel system.

Yes highlighting, taking notes etc. is all good as well as been able to flip pages and gloss over stuff. Not the same on a computer screen.

 

[ugotbit03]

SCT has value files for the injectors and MAF. You are going to need to work the MAF due to the size of the housing. The largest BA5000 file is for a 4in (101mm) housing. Always load the MAF file last.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Thanks, I'll take a look. Oh and yes on wideband, have gauge in car as well as cable to X3/laptop for data logging.

 

[MalcolmV8]

SCT has value files for the injectors and MAF.

I figured out the value files. The only 80lb injectors I see those are in the Ford Racing folder. Specifically "80# [M-9593-LU80] v2.mvf". Is that it? Are Ford Racing injectors just rebranded Siemen Deka injectors?

 

[ugotbit03]

I figured out the value files. The only 80lb injectors I see those are in the Ford Racing folder. Specifically "80# [M-9593-LU80] v2.mvf". Is that it? Are Ford Racing injectors just rebranded Siemen Deka injectors?

I believe they are the same.

For the value files you want to start with the base tune, injectors then MAF. You are also going to need to make changes for the return fuel system, as outlined in LaSota's SCT guide.

I'm sure there is a percentage you can apply to the MAF transfer to get you in the ball park for the 123mm MAF

 

[04sleeper]

I also have the Banish book. It is a great theroy book and explains the why and how. I think LaSota's video and SCT book are great as it applies directly to the SCT software.

Tuning is one thing, but troubleshooting is another. That's where understanding the inputs and outputs of the PCM and what the PCM is doing with this information comes into play.

Banish also has a Ford tuning DVD, but pricey at $200.

$263.95 with shipping actually. I know I have it. Very up to date stuff. I also have LaSotas disc and book. And both of Banish's books as well. The more you learn, the better.

 

[MalcolmV8]

I'm sure there is a percentage you can apply to the MAF transfer to get you in the ball park for the 123mm MAF

I think I'm missing something here. I opened up the stock 03 Cobra YDH1 tune and got the MAF transfer into a spread sheet. I then did the same with BA 5000 for 2.5 inch housing, 3", 3.5", and 4". I was trying to see how the numbers increased across the board so I could make adjustments for a 4.8" tube which is what 123 mm is.

However notice the pic below. The numbers changed from stock to 2.5" but as I loaded all values for all the other BA 5000 MAF files the transfers were all identical. I'm sure I'm missing something or they wouldn't have a different file for each one with the same exact values inside.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Hey Guys,

Just an update. It's been a while as I've been busy on other projects but finally jumped back on this one this afternoon. Between now and then I've watched the Don Lasto racing videos and read the training manual. Actually as an FYI for others the video is not a video but rather a compilation of power point type slides that move along with some writing popping up in bubble windows for you. I don't call that a video but anyhow.

So I made a ton of notes as I read the manual almost a month ago and today I went through my notes, refreshed myself and proceeded to build a base tune for my car. I was very impressed with myself in that the car actually started lol
Got the lower ends of the MAF dialed in so it was idling around 14.7 A/F warmed up. It still needs work but very close.
Next I logged my Idle Air Integrator and idle spark among many other things. Found the ISC was off. Adjusted the ISC table to where data logs are at 0 or dang near close.
Car is idling at 930 rpms right now with a commanded 850. So still not perfect but hell of a lot better. I'm not sure what more to do now that I have ISC or idle air integrator dialed in and it's still not quite low enough. Need to go back and reference my manual some more.

I have to admit though I was very impressed with myself for a first try. I got my car idling at 14.7 A/F at 930 rpms in about 2 1/2 hours. Rick's been jacking with my tune since January (actually since November but there was downtime till Jan) and his latest tune that he sent me a month ago idles at 1900 ~ 2000 RPMs and A/F has gone from super lean to pig rich. It's been a month since his last tune revision he sent me. How do people deal with that? I'm glad I've moved on.