Do you question why the EcoBoost exists?

[Felix C]

Well it is like alot of those Asian imports which are highly tuned and short lived. We do not know how long the EB4 will be reliable when modded and really who wants a short lived engine if that is the case? Let someone else be the guinea pig.

 

[2011 3.7 Kona]

Well it is like alot of those Asian imports which are highly tuned and short lived. We do not know how long the EB4 will be reliable when modded and really who wants a short lived engine if that is the case? Let someone else be the guinea pig.

Amen to that.

 

[SlowSVT]

Well it is like alot of those Asian imports which are highly tuned and short lived. We do not know how long the EB4 will be reliable when modded and really who wants a short lived engine if that is the case? Let someone else be the guinea pig.

That's kinda what I was thinking. It's a high output 2.3 liter engine pushing a heavy car. Not something I would want. This motor is better suited in a Focus or Fusion.

 

[Voltwings]

400 wtq does not stress the modern 4 cylinder hardly at all, and there are plenty of examples of this. At sub 3500 rpms maybe, but that's not a spot you will ever even use in a race, so its virtually irrelevant. Look at ~4000 rpms and the torque is at roughly 375 wtq, which is more than enough to make this car roll out, and hardly going to stress the internals at all.

Most of what makes turbo 4s so fast is their massive torque hits. Its a lot easier to jump ahead than it is to catch up.

 

[SID297]

So when to we get to see some turbo mods?

 

[SlowSVT]

400 wtq does not stress the modern 4 cylinder hardly at all, and there are plenty of examples of this. At sub 3500 rpms maybe, but that's not a spot you will ever even use in a race, so its virtually irrelevant. Look at ~4000 rpms and the torque is at roughly 375 wtq, which is more than enough to make this car roll out, and hardly going to stress the internals at all.

Most of what makes turbo 4s so fast is their massive torque hits. Its a lot easier to jump ahead than it is to catch up.

How is that possible?

Your making the engine work harder and run hotter with every hp added to the output. It gets worse if it's pulling a heavy load. An FI engine generally won't last as long as an NA for this reason. I sold my Subaru Legacy with 300K on the clock and the motor ran a well as new. My Turbo Outback will be lucky if I get 200K but I'm not optimistic (my mechanic say 150K on average for that engine). It has already had both heads replaced from a burned valve at 91K :nonono:

 

[Voltwings]

How is that possible?

Your making the engine work harder and run hotter with every hp added to the output. It gets worse if it's pulling a heavy load. An FI engine generally won't last as long as an NA for this reason. I sold my Subaru Legacy with 300K on the clock and the motor ran a well as new. My Turbo Outback will be lucky if I get 200K but I'm not optimistic (my mechanic say 150K on average for that engine). It has already had both heads replaced from a burned valve at 91K :nonono:

An engine will last as well as its built and as well as its tuned. A burned valve clearly means too little ignition advance resulting in hotter than normal EGTs. I can show you several cars i have tuned making 380-400 wtq on stock motors, some as high as 100k miles and they all get ran hard. The trick is knowing where to place that torque and how to make the power.

NOTE* I am not accusing Livernois of making a dyno queen, they are clearly just ramping up the boost because this car is just as new to them as it is everyone else, so they are show casing its potential.

Typically low end torque below 3500 serves no purpose other than to break stuff, or show off, because it will never be seen in a race. You could tune a motor to 500 wtq at 3500 rpms and it would last forever if you never went WOT below 4000 rpms you know... I push the torque peaks i tune out to 4000 rpms or beyond, because not only is that where the torque is the most useful, but it lowers the stress on the motor exponentially getting it out of those lower RPMs. My own car i ran at 440 wtq (@ roughly 4200 rpms) for over a year on the stock motor to prove a point, my stock clutch let go LONG before i had any worries about my motor letting go. Keep in mind, the DISI in the mazdaspeed3 is well over 8 years old at this point, and you can see a lot of similar (but improved) architecture in this motor. I would not be surprised to see plenty of 500 whp stock motor EBs within the next few years.

Look at 4000 rpms in the livernois dyno and you'll see this motor sitting right about 375 wtq. I will bet money now, that is what most aftermarket tuners will target; 380-400 wtq at 3800-4000 rpms for the sake of the stock motor and stock clutch and it will still be plenty safe. Your point is true that the engine has to work harder, and will run hotter when you increase HP, but that only becomes an issue if the stock units are sub par to begin with. I had to tune a mazda up to 550 whp before we eclipsed the usefulness of the stock cooling system, and again, i would expect MUCH more from this mustang than that (very much loved, but) dated platform.

 

[DSG2003SVT]

380-4000 wtq at 3800-4000 rpms

4000wtq. That's what I'm talkin' about!

 

[Voltwings]

4000wtq. That's what I'm talkin' about!

I dont **** around when i tune lol i play to win! Edited my post, thanks.

 

[SlowSVT]

An engine will last as well as its built and as well as its tuned. A burned valve clearly means too little ignition advance resulting in hotter than normal EGTs.

The burned valve was the result of stem stretch taking-up all the lash. Just say "NO" to sodium filled valves! :cuss:

 

[Voltwings]

The burned valve was the result of stem stretch taking-up all the lash. Just say "NO" to sodium filled valves! :cuss:

Arent those what are in the Boss lol?

 

[SlowSVT]

Arent those what are in the Boss lol?

I'm not sure

Hollow stem sodium valves are more prone to stretch. All of the valves were stretched and had to be cut down.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

DP and intake next?

We are still determining next round, but that's definitely in discussion.

i wanna see the big turbo numbers...450whp from a turbo swap.....hopefully

All in due time

Really nice gains. You should post that graph with the stock run overlayed on it.

Soon, we were busy working on something more fun than making a dyno graph

Wow ! , this is an interesting thread. I am pleased to see tuning done on an Ecoboost 4 with an auto trans because that is the combo I would buy. I will keep my GT500 , but I would like have a contrast to the big high horsepower engine. It would be just fun to wring out power from a small engine. It will be fun to see the progress made in improving the output of the Ecoboost 4.

It's definitely awesome to see how this car is responding to our calibration upgrades.

Wait a minute. Just so I'm understanding what your saying. This Dyno is on the 2015 ecoboost with just a tune? The car made over 400 rwtq with just a tune?

If so, holy $hit batman. Good grief, With the torque numbers. Just curious but why does the torque take a huge nose dive after that huge huge gain? Is there a way to keep the torque higher throughout the powerband?

Indeed, you read it right. Just a tune.

The turbo is beyond its efficiency range. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, just means that after engine rpm starts climbing the turbo cannot supply enough air to keep up. Power drops off in turn. All of the Ford EB motors are like this where the turbo is small and sort of optimized for the whole power band right out of the factory. This is what gives the quick response and instant torque. The trade off is you don't have much headroom to make more power after a tune. Daily usability with low end torque and fun factor go way up with a tune though

Pretty much nailed it. We find the line of power, and reliability. Sometimes that means shifting the powerband around. But all EB's have a power curve like this.

With that much of a torque advantage over the 5.0 will the ecoboost be faster off the line?

Well, a video going up shortly will tell you that

Well it is like alot of those Asian imports which are highly tuned and short lived. We do not know how long the EB4 will be reliable when modded and really who wants a short lived engine if that is the case? Let someone else be the guinea pig.

You mean like us? who bought our own car to do this with? We are no stranger to the EB world. We have been doing EcoBoost tuning since 2009, and were the first with tuning on some models by over 2 years in some cases. First to tune the 2.0 fusion, 2.0 escape, 1.5 fusion, 1.6 fusion, 1.6 escape, and of course their platform mates. Not to mention what we do with the V6 EcoBoost. When we release something, we know it will be safe.

So when to we get to see some turbo mods?

We'll talk next week about those plans sir

An engine will last as well as its built and as well as its tuned. A burned valve clearly means too little ignition advance resulting in hotter than normal EGTs. I can show you several cars i have tuned making 380-400 wtq on stock motors, some as high as 100k miles and they all get ran hard. The trick is knowing where to place that torque and how to make the power.

NOTE* I am not accusing Livernois of making a dyno queen, they are clearly just ramping up the boost because this car is just as new to them as it is everyone else, so they are show casing its potential.

Typically low end torque below 3500 serves no purpose other than to break stuff, or show off, because it will never be seen in a race. You could tune a motor to 500 wtq at 3500 rpms and it would last forever if you never went WOT below 4000 rpms you know... I push the torque peaks i tune out to 4000 rpms or beyond, because not only is that where the torque is the most useful, but it lowers the stress on the motor exponentially getting it out of those lower RPMs. My own car i ran at 440 wtq (@ roughly 4200 rpms) for over a year on the stock motor to prove a point, my stock clutch let go LONG before i had any worries about my motor letting go. Keep in mind, the DISI in the mazdaspeed3 is well over 8 years old at this point, and you can see a lot of similar (but improved) architecture in this motor. I would not be surprised to see plenty of 500 whp stock motor EBs within the next few years.

Look at 4000 rpms in the livernois dyno and you'll see this motor sitting right about 375 wtq. I will bet money now, that is what most aftermarket tuners will target; 380-400 wtq at 3800-4000 rpms for the sake of the stock motor and stock clutch and it will still be plenty safe. Your point is true that the engine has to work harder, and will run hotter when you increase HP, but that only becomes an issue if the stock units are sub par to begin with. I had to tune a mazda up to 550 whp before we eclipsed the usefulness of the stock cooling system, and again, i would expect MUCH more from this mustang than that (very much loved, but) dated platform.

Well, there are a ton of things we do, but just ramping in boost is not the answer. These are very complicated, as does their tuning need to be. That part, we have figured out no problem though

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Well, it's the item people wanted to know most about our car. What did it do at the track? Well, check it out for yourself! :rolling:

http://youtu.be/H2dkcQGQBXs

This was done with full weight, right off the road, on an open test and tune night, and, wait for it..... on 20" wheels and tires!

Not too shabby for a tune only! That's right, tune only!

So for those of you begging to know what our tune can do, we answered your plea :burnout:

 

[black92]

Well, it's the item people wanted to know most about our car. What did it do at the track? Well, check it out for yourself! :rolling:

http://youtu.be/H2dkcQGQBXs

This was done with full weight, right off the road, on an open test and tune night, and, wait for it..... on 20" wheels and tires!

Not too shabby for a tune only! That's right, tune only!

So for those of you begging to know what our tune can do, we answered your plea :burnout:

Holy s***! So with this tune a DP, CAI and slicks it might just touch the 11's!!!

Speaking of this tune, was this a "kill" tune that you won't release to the public, or what one could expect from what you do release?

 

[99riocobra]

Unreal :beer:

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

There's going to be some back-peddling about this car soon lol.

 

[smashedheadcat]

Pulling a 1.6X 60ft on factory rubber? If there is a different tire on there, you have to include that tid-bit of info in the mod list for track times.

 

[Red Turtle]

Pulling a 1.6X 60ft on factory rubber? If there is a different tire on there, you have to include that tid-bit of info in the mod list for track times.

I would assume that it is a street tire with a 20" diameter, and not a DR. Livernois is not one to use smoke and mirrors or leave out info.

Very cool to see how well this car is responding to a simple tune. Congrats guys.

 

[Voltwings]

Well, there are a ton of things we do, but just ramping in boost is not the answer. These are very complicated, as does their tuning need to be. That part, we have figured out no problem though

I am very familiar with how turbo tuning works . I meant no offense with my "blanket statement," regarding the boost, which sole purpose was to state i meant no offense in regards to how the car was tuned (the massive torque spike) in the first place lol.
There are obviously several other factors regarding low end torque, and tuning in general, and i didn't mean to take anything from that and suggest y'all are throwing a half ass tune on there by just cranking the boost up.
BTW, i am going to go out on a limb and assume there was a healthy amount of boost down low, any chance y'all ran up on the factory MAP sensor limits? It'd be pretty slick if this car came with a 3 bar (or more) from the factory.