Dont know which way to go on my fuel system....

[DaveHutch]

okay here is the deal. I will keep this as simple as I can.
I just bought a motor, blower and sold much of my fuel system off as i wanted to go E85, and go with an aeromotive system. However, now that i have sunk more money than i really wanted into my car ( thats im sure how many of you feel) I REALLY just want to get it back onto the road, before this season is over.

The motor still has to go in, and i still need to gather fuel parts. I guess the real cost comes down to which way to go on this fuel system. Im finding that honestly i dont HAVE to go E85 right now, so my question is with what i have RIGHT NOW, what would be the best, yet most affordable way to go, while still keeping E85 and a better setup in mind for the future.

All i have now is the aeromotive fuel rails, stock lines and hat, and stock rails.

So my question is this. Can i run two ford gt pumps, a sumped tank, stock lines, and the aeromotive fuel rails with 80 lb injectors for now, and be fine on 17 psi on a 2.2 KB?
Then later, switching to E85 and running 19psi, on my 10.2 :1 compressoin motor, i will need MUCH more fuel, so im thinking a full areomotive eliminator setup.

your thoughts?

thanks ...just trying to see if i am overlooking something!

 

[Ironhand]

Do it right the first time is what I like to do. Go return then dont worry about it.

 

[DaveHutch]

yahahhhhhh .....i want to...but wanting to, and financially being able to is another story. thats another 2 grand to do it right. and i can honestly get away with 900-1200. i know its not a TON difference, but im getting ready to vacation, and insurance is sort of slow right now. Not to mention an engagement ring is also thrown in the mix!!!!

 

[Ironhand]

In that case I would put it together with whatever I had on hand that would work. Then save and as soon as I could put a return system in the car. But I wouldnt buy anything that was too expensive for the temp setup.

 

[DaveHutch]

well i might as well buy the 80 lb injectors.....the line and the pumps for a return style is what gets pricey....and i can always resell the gt pumps....

i just want to make sure i have enough fuel for the car at 17 psi on a 2.2

 

[Joshzt]

Not knowing much about your setup (or mustangs for that matter, I reg'd for the stolen gt500 thread LOL) but knowing a bit about e85 setups my first question is what is your power goals? E85 typical requires 30-35% more fuel to reach the same power as gas. Second question is how is the E85 in your area? How much do the seasonal blends differ? Are you planning on mixing your blend yourself or tuning you car to the local minimum? Are you gonna run an alc sensor?

Just a heads up to (because most people overlook it), you have to run an air tight system with no atmospheric bleeding because of the flammable gases that will be in your crank case (alc doesnt pool and mix with oil like gas, it remains a vapor and needs to be rerouted back to the intake via pcv's otherwise it is a fire hazard).

 

[dlaude]

yahahhhhhh .....i want to...but wanting to, and financially being able to is another story. thats another 2 grand to do it right. and i can honestly get away with 900-1200. i know its not a TON difference, but im getting ready to vacation, and insurance is sort of slow right now. Not to mention an engagement ring is also thrown in the mix!!!!

Sorry I don't have anything to add to the topic at hand, but congrats bro! Same here! But shh keep my secret and I'll keep yours!

I guess I do have something somewhat worthwhile to add: I would recommend the E85 now. You will not regret it! My favorite "change" so far!!!

 

[vladSVT]

Not knowing much about your setup (or mustangs for that matter, I reg'd for the stolen gt500 thread LOL) but knowing a bit about e85 setups my first question is what is your power goals? E85 typical requires 30-35% more fuel to reach the same power as gas. Second question is how is the E85 in your area? How much do the seasonal blends differ? Are you planning on mixing your blend yourself or tuning you car to the local minimum? Are you gonna run an alc sensor?

Just a heads up to (because most people overlook it), you have to run an air tight system with no atmospheric bleeding because of the flammable gases that will be in your crank case (alc doesnt pool and mix with oil like gas, it remains a vapor and needs to be rerouted back to the intake via pcv's otherwise it is a fire hazard).

Can you explain this more? Never heard of this until now, got me kinda worried lol!

And DaveHutch, have you looked into the Lethal return style budget system? I think it will be spot on with your goals, if you do run out you can always add another walboro pump later down the road! I will probably be going with Lethal budget system with dual gss342s in my kb car as well. Its also pretty cheap (like $900)

 

[Joshzt]

Can you explain this more? Never heard of this until now, got me kinda worried lol!

Which part? Vapor? Alcohol and gas have two different boiling points. That being said all cars have blow by to a certain extent which is why you have pcv/evap systems. When gas is injected into the manifold it is in liquid state and remains a liquid state during the combustion process. E85 however is a very low boiling point, when it is atomized the heat from the manifold itself is enough to vaporize it. Now back to all motors having small amounts of blow by. The liquid remains of gas the make it past the rings mix with the oil. With e85 however it does not mix and those vapors are recirculated (or should be through your system via pcv/evap). In turbo/sc applications you end up having even more blow by than a NA car. So with that being said, catch cans should be rerouted back to the oil pans with a check valve in between and pcv should be routed back to the manifold.

Like I said above though I am not familiar at all with how your motors route/deal with crankcase pressure, it might not even be an issue with your vehicles. More of a heads.

something like this, will usually solve the vapor problem though http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-25900/

walboro pump

044 or bust

 

[DaveHutch]

Can you explain this more? Never heard of this until now, got me kinda worried lol!

And DaveHutch, have you looked into the Lethal return style budget system? I think it will be spot on with your goals, if you do run out you can always add another walboro pump later down the road! I will probably be going with Lethal budget system with dual gss342s in my kb car as well. Its also pretty cheap (like $900)

yah i was looking at that. do you guys know if you can run the sumped tank, but not an external pump with it? just cap off the two outlets?

the only thing that scares me about E 85 is what the above is mentioned, having a completely air tight system....

 

[Teej281]

Budget return system with 2 aeromotive stealth 340 pumps will work well with corn. I'd say that would support a good 700rwhp on e85. Go that route so housing have to worry about stupid modified fpdm or mdm. Return is where it's at!

 

[DaveHutch]

thats what i was hearing. i also thought about running external pumps....i can get a good deal on an A1000...and maybe hold out for another. Does anyone know if you can run two A1000s?

 

[Joshzt]

The best way (not very practical for DD's) is to have an internal with 12 micron sock feeding a 24 micron filter that leads to a swirl pot/surge tank that is pulled by another pump that leads to a 48 micron filter. However, if using a stock tank you could get away with two in tank pumps. It all depends on how the baffling is inside your stock tanks though. If the baffling sucks, they make cubes of foam material (the same used in fuel cells/put in bike tanks to help reduce roll during corners) that can be put inside of you tank (they only reduce capacity by like 5%).

Regarding injectors (from first post) im not sure 80lb would be sufficient, most people that run e85 (at least in 4-cyl applications) use 1200-2000 cc (lb = cc / 10.5). If you use 80 lb injectors you will probably need to run a 4bar fuel pressure regulator and have the injectors running at close to 100% duty cycle which I dont recommend (the duty cycle that is).

Regarding fuel pumps I would stay away from walbro at all cost! While the do flow a lot of fuel they are EXTREMELY unreliable. I used to run a walbro setup in my track car and in the course of 2 years I had to replace it 4 times. Stick to bosch or aeromotive.

Also keep in mind, when first switching to e85 you have to religiously clean/change filters for the first few months of running it. You wouldnt believe how much bullshit ends up in your tank from pump gas.

 

[DaveHutch]

all good stuff above. however isnt 04 sleeper running 3 pump and 80 lb injectors? so if i go aeromotive should i just go with an eliminator, or maybe 2 a 1000s?
i also will be purchasing a sumped tank

 

[Joshzt]

80 lb injectors?

It is all relevant to what bar/psi FPR's you guys use. Going from 3 bar to 4 bar will bump up the flow 20-25% so that comes in to play. So 80lbs could flow like 100+ based on fuel pressure alone. See: me not knowing anything about mustangs LOL

 

[vladSVT]

all good stuff above. however isnt 04 sleeper running 3 pump and 80 lb injectors? so if i go aeromotive should i just go with an eliminator, or maybe 2 a 1000s?
i also will be purchasing a sumped tank

04sleeper ran (he sold his car) a returnless fuel system (not return). He ran Dual GT Pumps, and all the goodies with it. He had 80lb injectors and made alittle over 700rwhp. I would think 80lb injectors would be enough for around 750rwhp`=.

I'm also on the verge of running the Lethal budget system, but read some stories about walboro pumps failing, it would suck if one of them fail while you're under WOT. :bash:

 

[dadro77]

yahahhhhhh .....i want to...but wanting to, and financially being able to is another story. thats another 2 grand to do it right. and i can honestly get away with 900-1200. i know its not a TON difference, but im getting ready to vacation, and insurance is sort of slow right now. Not to mention an engagement ring is also thrown in the mix!!!!

Just put that on hold and mod the stang!!

 

[DaveHutch]

ok so i found an older red eliminator pump.....that should work for my setup. i can run that, with the lethal budget return system and some 80lb injectors. what else will i need ( i am unfamiliar with the return kits) as far as regulators, etc.

 

[Teej281]

ok so i found an older red eliminator pump.....that should work for my setup. i can run that, with the lethal budget return system and some 80lb injectors. what else will i need ( i am unfamiliar with the return kits) as far as regulators, etc.

Well...I dont know what youre trying to ask here. You're getting an external pump...then buying an in tank return pump system? You either run the external pump or you get the budget return system. One or the other, not both. You use the stock fuel hat for fuel level and such, but you would need to get a sumped tank to run the eliminator pump. I would suggest get the budget return system and screw the eliminator pump and run two stealth 340 pumps in the FORE hat that comes with the budget kit.

 

[DaveHutch]

^ thanks for the advice. i found a sumped tank, a A 1000 pump with filters for 500. now i just need the line and regulator and injectors. it should come out a little more expensive, but im being told do it right the first time.