E85, VMP Gen3, or Whipple 2.9

[Shelbyfied]

Tell me what you all think. I am debating which direction to go with regards to either upgrading to a VMP Gen 3, Whipple 2.9 or E85. The car is driven about 3 or 4 times a month so it sits a lot. I'd like to go e85 but I'm thinking that may be an issue for me due to water absorption as I don't drive the vehicle much. I really don't want to have to drain or drive out the E85 and retune for 93 octane everytime the car will sit for a week or two or longer. I was looking at a video posted on YouTube posted by VMP. On a stock 2012 gt500 with the smallest recommended pulley, which is a 2.8 on 93 octane, the car made around 712 HP to the wheels. In my case I will be adding headers and off road h-pipe to the vehicle which would theoretically put me at about 740 to 750whp on pump gas. I'd be happy at that HP level but the concerns are possibly running lean or detonation on 93 octane at that HP level. I Don't know too much about the Whipple but I'd imagine I would run into a similar issue with the 2.9 at that HP level. Any adivse would be appreciated.

2012 GT500 current mods:
VMP Gen 1/ 2.65 upper
JLT intake
90 mm aux idler
Dual fan dual pass intercooler
Tons of suspension

Upgrades in my possession to be installed:
Kooks LTH w/off road h pipe
VMP fuel pump booster
10% lower
both 2.4 and 2.5 upper
ID 1050X injectors
NGK Plugs




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[StrayBullitt]

I'd probably stick with well vetted 93 setup for now until you are ready to build up the Engine (Rods/Pistons/Cams).. then go for E85 at that same time to really take full advantage.

Don't know much about the Whipples, they've not really been on my radar, but I think for comparison you would want to look at the 2650 to the 3.4L Whipple. You've seen what the VMP Gen 3 is capable of and still fits under the stock hood which is really nice. You can hit that 750 number with less blower speed/ less heat and have plenty of room to grow when the time comes.

 

[1Kona_Venom]

You wont hit 750 on pump gas. 720ish seems about right for what you still have to install. but, it's all about the tune. I don't think seat of the pants feel, your really gonna notice a difference between 10-20hp on a summer day.

I would do the VMP GenII since the market may have a few more for sale now that the Gen3 is out. Stick with pump gas for your needs, but at the end of the day it's your money



Here are some 2.9 #'s from another member 2012 stock motor

2.9 Whipple
15% Lower
FRPP twin throttle body
JLT carbon fiber cold air intake with blue high flow filter
72lb injectors
Full Stainless Works exhaust with long tubes, X pipe and high flow cats
KB boost-a-pump
C&R heat exchanger and dual fans
Tuned on 91 and 95 octane (I run 100 in it on the 95 tune)
Car made 702 rwhp on 91 octane and 740 rwhp and 730 rwtq on 95 octane tune in AZ summer heat

 

[Totalpkg]

I went with the VMP Gen 3. Reliabilty, less heat, and upgradable. I'm using a 3.0" pulley and at the same power as a Gen 2R with a 2.4". Not sure about the Whipple's, but OE companies use the Eaton's on all the cars.

 

[MG0h3]

E85 isnt as big of a hassle as it gets made out to be. I've left my for three months without an issue. Threw some stabil in there and good to go. Ran perfect when I got back.

 

[MelloStang2010]

Ill have some whipple numbers in a few weeks when I install it and the fuel system. I ended up doing both a whipple 3.4 and going to e85 because we dont have any 93 octane in this area so ill have two tunes for 91 and e85. I went with the 3.4 because it was only a few hundred more plus the motor mounts to make it fit under the stock hood, and because I know I'm going to build the stock bottom end and want to be able to make 1000 without maxing out the blower.

 

[Shelbyfied]

I went with the VMP Gen 3. Reliabilty, less heat, and upgradable. I'm using a 3.0" pulley and at the same power as a Gen 2R with a 2.4". Not sure about the Whipple's, but OE companies use the Eaton's on all the cars.

What kind of power are you putting to the wheels? Any upgrades?

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[2011 gtcs]

I'm sure if you go with a Gen3 2.9 whipple and tune it on 100 you'll be at 750whp

 

[biminiLX]

Go E85 regardless, safer for your car unless you commit to unleaded 100+ race fuel.
I only drive mine once a week, and you can add stabilizer or a top end lube with stabilizer but we've had no problems with E85 and limited use.
One friend did have some weakening of his Walbro intank pumps from sitting in the tank all winter but easy to pull the pump hat in winter.
For 1-2 drives a week and sitting for 1-2 weeks sometimes, E85 will be fine and as stated, detonation protection, running cooler and having a LOT more power due to the ability to run appropriate timing.
Pump tune on 16-17 degrees timing vs a pump E85 20-21 degrees will feel 100hp stronger and will be minimum 50rwhp better.
-J

 

[Willie]

Pump tune on 16-17 degrees timing vs a pump E85 20-21 degrees will feel 100hp stronger and will be minimum 50rwhp better.

J,
This is with how much boost?

Go E85 regardless, safer for your car unless you commit to unleaded 100+ race fuel.

There is an alternative that I've practiced and used for longer than I've owned my car (8+ years) without alcohol cylinder washdown...... I'm sure you guys already know....

 

[Klaus]

I went through similar dilemma as you although mine was decision to stick with gen 2r and go e85/meth or upgrade to gen 3. Went with gen 3. In near term will have similar gains but with less hassle. You can always add e85 to larger blower although you will need new rods and pistons if you do.

 

[Shelbyfied]

I went through similar dilemma as you although mine was decision to stick with gen 2r and go e85/meth or upgrade to gen 3. Went with gen 3. In near term will have similar gains but with less hassle. You can always add e85 to larger blower although you will need new rods and pistons if you do.

What kind of power are you putting down to the wheels with the Gen 3?

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[biminiLX]

J,
This is with how much boost?

There is an alternative that I've practiced and used for longer than I've owned my car (8+ years) without alcohol cylinder washdown...... I'm sure you guys already know....

I ran my stock motor/welded Trinity blower at 19-20psi on the gauge (15% lower, 2.6 upper) and 16-17 degrees 93 tune, used some Torco additive on race/dyno days. With built motor and ported 2R/15%/2.5 and E85 it starts at 19psi but drops to 15psi redline and E85 tolerates up to 24 deg timing.
We've had other cars on E85 and for the quality of pump E we have here nothing else makes sense.
For these GT500s, changing to E85 and allowing real timing, you'll pick up big power guaranteed.
I know meth inj works for many, and it can be combined with E85 for absolute max pump gas results.
I'd definitely run meth Injection if good pump E85 not available locally.
-J

 

[Willie]

Would you conclude that 24 degrees is max, given the perfect conditions? I was running 20 degrees, 19.4 on the gauge, 91 octane, methanol. Recently, I've upped my boost to 24, but having never explored this deeply, I'm not sure how much timing I can run. I now use 100 octane with methanol. I have e85 readily available but elect not to use it.

 

[biminiLX]

We kept adding timing and it kept making power and the plugs looked great.
I have a rear ice tank and serious lower intake porting/welding with the KB Bigun core, so between those mods and E85 my IATs are really good.
I'd say 24 or even 25 would be max for a PD boosted GT500, but that's something I'd never recommend with actual testing and carefully creeping up on it.
I think the cams, slight compression bump, E85 and extensive lower intake/cooling mods helped our 965rwhp SAE, the most I've seen on a TVS 2.3 excluding the BPS shop car. Great guys at BPS!
With 100 octane and methanol I'm sure you won't have issues pushing it harder, but I'm not aware of too many with that combo.
The car really responds to timing though!
-J

 

[Shelbyfied]

Has anyone seen 750whp on on 93 octane with a stock motor (full bolt-ons) or is that running too lean and probability of detonation no matter how you dice it?

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[Shelbyfied]

What kind of numbers are you putting down to the wheels?

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[Shelbyfied]

What kind of numbers are you putting down to the wheels?

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[Klaus]

What kind of power are you putting down to the wheels with the Gen 3?

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Still waiting for new throttle body from BMP so TBD. Expecting 725whp. Smarter guys than be can chime in but 750 is likely upper limit of stock internals.

 

[sono]

Great options, but I have a 12 as well and it won't make the car much faster.
Our limitations are 1st gear, so it's either a 13 transmission or auto mod. Either way what good is more spinning.