Can't we all just get along?
Excessive Motorsport's Latest Project...
- Thread starter BLWN32V
- Start date
Once you take that 'manual > auto' nonsense out of your sig
I will get some more pics today...
look forward to seeing the final results.
Hahaha. I mean it in the nicest way. I feel stick is what belongs in a street car that occasionally finds track use, I won't disagree that a purely track car should have an auto due to its consistency. What I mean is I would never buy a Ferrari with an auto, thats just plain dumb in a car like that.
Back on topic, I saw that car at the shop, pretty badass!
I can't wait to get her all cleaned up again...
+1, but I have some questions/concerns.
I like the idea of the build but I have to express some of my questions/concerns...........not knocking you, just some constructive ideas/thoughts
1) How/why did you pick the F2M if you only want to run 21 PSI and pump gas? That thing can push upwards of 2250 CFM at full boogie, and I know you said on the dyno it only made 10 PSI at 6k. Thats because its a big blower and it will be way out of its efficiency range if you only rev it to 6k RPM. This is a big blower that needs to be spun...hard. Just seems like it may be too much blower for a steet car, IMHO. The few that have had success (mainly Dave King)with this blower in the past usually revved their motors to 8500+ RPM
and had converter stall speeds of ~6800 RPM to get this blower to work. In summary, the blower is huge, and you need a lot of RPM to get it to work on such a relatively small displacement motor.2) I ran into the same problem with the radiator and chose to go another route. Dont you think that having the blower inlet soo close to the radiator will cause it to ingest a lot of hotter air from the radiator, and may even be a restriction? These blowers are very sensitive to inlet side restrictions, and I think that may be a problem for you, I think IAT's may get excessively high.
3) I think your fuel system needs some considerable upgrades. I think that staying returnless will be a risky proposition with that blower. You will have plenty of CFM on tap with the blip of the throttle. I would seriously consider changing to a return style setup before letting that blower eat. And I would bet a good chunk of change that those 65 lbers. will be maxxed out before that blower even begins to wake up.
4) What size is all that tubing? It looks kind of small, to be honest. And where is the MAF located?
I hope you dont take any of this the wrong way, just wanted to ask some questions and maybe discuss some things to get this combo to work as best it can.
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+1, but I have some questions/concerns.
I like the idea of the build but I have to express some of my questions/concerns...........not knocking you, just some constructive ideas/thoughts
1) How/why did you pick the F2M if you only want to run 21 PSI and pump gas? That thing can push upwards of 2250 CFM at full boogie, and I know you said on the dyno it only made 10 PSI at 6k. Thats because its a big blower and it will be way out of its efficiency range if you only rev it to 6k RPM. This is a big blower that needs to be spun...hard. Just seems like it may be too much blower for a steet car, IMHO. The few that have had success (mainly Dave King)with this blower in the past usually revved their motors to 8500+ RPM
2) I ran into the same problem with the radiator and chose to go another route. Dont you think that having the blower inlet soo close to the radiator will cause it to ingest a lot of hotter air from the radiator, and may even be a restriction? These blowers are very sensitive to inlet side restrictions, and I think that may be a problem for you, I think IAT's may get excessively high.
3) I think your fuel system needs some considerable upgrades. I think that staying returnless will be a risky proposition with that blower. You will have plenty of CFM on tap with the blip of the throttle. I would seriously consider changing to a return style setup before letting that blower eat. And I would bet a good chunk of change that those 65 lbers. will be maxxed out before that blower even begins to wake up.
4) What size is all that tubing? It looks kind of small, to be honest. And where is the MAF located?
I hope you dont take any of this the wrong way, just wanted to ask some questions and maybe discuss some things to get this combo to work as best it can.
These questions are all great...and you are making some very true points. I chose the F2M for future plans. I got a great deal on it and I couldn't pass it up. I will only want to run about 20-22 psi right now because as you noted, that is all my fuel system will support at the moment. I will change out to a return style eventually. For the radiator, we will see how the IAT's are, eventually I would like to get a custom one made so that the inlet of the blower is above the top of the radiator. The MAF tubing is all 3" and the MAF is in the fenderwell. That can be upgraded as well. I just pieced this together to make it work for now. This whole project is a work in progress and this was the first step...to just get the blower to fit and get the car running again.
In the spring I might be stepping up to the return style fuel system. I will be slowly making this a better system as I go through the year(s)
I totally understand. Rome wasn't built in a day :beer: You obviously have a good plan!!
I can't wait to get her all cleaned up again...
Just wondering, are those B heads? or if they are Cs how did you get the 96-98 intake on there. Great setup by the way. Hope some more VA guys build up to compete with PA.
+1, but I have some questions/concerns.
I like the idea of the build but I have to express some of my questions/concerns...........not knocking you, just some constructive ideas/thoughts
1) How/why did you pick the F2M if you only want to run 21 PSI and pump gas? That thing can push upwards of 2250 CFM at full boogie, and I know you said on the dyno it only made 10 PSI at 6k. Thats because its a big blower and it will be way out of its efficiency range if you only rev it to 6k RPM. This is a big blower that needs to be spun...hard. Just seems like it may be too much blower for a steet car, IMHO. The few that have had success (mainly Dave King)with this blower in the past usually revved their motors to 8500+ RPM
Not to mention the valvetrain will not sustain that amount of RPMs .
2) I ran into the same problem with the radiator and chose to go another route. Dont you think that having the blower inlet soo close to the radiator will cause it to ingest a lot of hotter air from the radiator, and may even be a restriction? These blowers are very sensitive to inlet side restrictions, and I think that may be a problem for you, I think IAT's may get excessively high.
Me too ! Im running a massive radiator and 4 fans . Id suggest you lower the radiator and intercooler so as the blower gets direct air from the outside .
Also it will allow for a filter to be installed for street use .
3) I think your fuel system needs some considerable upgrades. I think that staying returnless will be a risky proposition with that blower. You will have plenty of CFM on tap with the blip of the throttle. I would seriously consider changing to a return style setup before letting that blower eat. And I would bet a good chunk of change that those 65 lbers. will be maxxed out before that blower even begins to wake up.
Thats quite obvious ! Im running 160s .
4) What size is all that tubing? It looks kind of small, to be honest. And where is the MAF located?
I hope you dont take any of this the wrong way, just wanted to ask some questions and maybe discuss some things to get this combo to work as best it can.
Also with that amount of boost you will want breathers on both sides of the valve covers to a catch can . Swapping valve cover gaskets and cleaning oil off the motor from spilling out of the breathers is a drag .
The pulley set-up you have chosen is the same set-up im running . Its good for 23 psi . The sprague is the smartest thing you could have done . It cost me a crank my first time . I sheared the keyway right off . I also hope you have a double keyway . Even with the sprague there is a lot of torque on the crank .
I think you biggest dilemna is going to be tuning it for street use ! It will be fine for the track but it wont be for the street . I had this issue myself . Im now running Big Stuff 3 .
The manual will get old quickly it plain sux . I was running a Spec 3 and ate that up . Then i went to a twin disc which was terrible . The auto is the way to go .
Take all of this with a grain of salt ! Its growing pains that i went through .
Im finally finished and the car couldnt be running better . As stated above Rome wasnt built in a day and it has taken me almost three years to get it all done , and done right .
Good luck and have fun with it .
Oh yeah one more thing . If you removed the front bumper bracket and left it out you will need to fabricate a tubular one to tie the front end in . Its very important that you do this for strength !!!!! The thread i sent you will show this .
Can you expand on these a bit?
Which pulley combo will net him 23 PSI? The 81 T and 45 T sprag blower pulley? Wouldnt the boost be different on the F2M than the F1R you run?
Also in regards to crank issues. Did you shear you first crank when it had the auto or was it still stick? Did it take out any valves & pistons? I also run a 400, but I have the regular cog pullies, and my crank is x2 keyed, wondering how it will be? I think the auto makes a huge difference with a loose converter and wont beat up the crank as bad..still not sure tho. Isnt the sprag like $450? Then I need another crank pulley, new belt....blah blah.
What is the largest crank pulley that can be run without hitting the mechanical water pump?
Also, for street tuning, you tried to tune the car with a MAF and stock ECU? What were the issues? What MAF and supporting electronics did you use? Did you try to get it tuned via SCT?
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Also, how does that super sprag pulley bolt to the blower? It looks like it has one big bolt instead of several small ones on the regular pullies?? Does the shaft ofn the blower need to be changed?
the 81 tooth clears my stock water pump pulley. I think there might be enough room for an 88 tooth.
The sprag pulley just has the one bolt that threads into the input shaft of the blower and has two keyways.
There is a guy that makes the sprag pulley in different sizes for a better price I think. I searched it and found him on a Corvette site. The pulley itself weighs a good 5 pounds or more!!!
I was under the impression that the F2M is easier to spin than the F1R. The F2M was made specifically for Mod Motors. So hopefully, it will build boost as quick or quicker than the R.
Thanks for the info on the pullies / water pump.
If you have a link to these other sprag pullies, I'd really appreciate it!
My point exactly on the blowers, the F2M requires less power to turn than the F1R, wonder if that has to do with any of the crank issues? I know the F1A, F1C, and F2M were designed for the mod motor.
Im running the 77 with the Meziere elec. water pump .
Its possible with the F2M im speaking of the F1R .
It was a stick when i sheared the 1st crank . It only hurt the vrank itself . It was still together but the keyway was stripped totally . Im told it can happen with either due to the fact how much pressure is exerted on the crank due to the offset of the cog set-up . There is a support bracket assy. to help with this but its not cheap or easy to install .
Dave at SGS tried everything and the moon . Even swapped to a 99-01 ECU set-up . It was better but still didnt run streetable . The issue was with starting and stopping . Great for the track but not streetable . When you came to stops after acceleration no matter what RPM the car would stall .
You could brake and step on the gas at the same time to keep it running but what fun is that . Not to mention you had to set the RPMs at a high level .
Hopefully mine won't have those problems...:shrug:
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