F1A Procharger COG on 03 motor..intake question?

[96BlackStangGT]

Hey guys, I've got a 1996 Mustang GT that I am currently saving up to build. I've decided to go with a complete 03-04 cobra drivetrain and F1A procharger COG setup for the build. After a lot of reading it seems that (for a street car anyway) that the 01 cobra intake is the way to go instead of the sheet metal intake that the kit comes with, due to how much low end torque the procharger intake robs. My question is this: What all is needed to run that intake on an 03-04 motor with the F1A? Will it need to be ported? If anyone has a parts list that would be GREAT.

Also: I plan on using all the cobra wiring for this swap as well. If anyone knows, what wiring do I need to make it work right? I know I need the PCM, engine harness, transmission harness, dash harness, and instrument cluster. Is that it or would I need other wiring for the doors and such as well? I want the car to run the COP setup as well. It seems to look much cleaner. Also plan on an aeromotive eliminator system as far as fuel goes.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Ironhand]

The 01 Cobra intake doesnt do that well with boost. One of the runners is an odd shape, the freeze plugs in the bottom of it can pop out under boost as well. Even a ported short runner version of it sucks IMO.

The F1A kits comes with a hat that allows it to bolt down to the stock cobra lower and retain the intercooler setup from the eaton.

I would use a different setup all together but thats me.

 

[Teej281]

Youre building a high hp centri blowered 4v motor...something just screams that you dont want torque. lol I think that if youre going to do it, do it right and buy either a logan or sullivan. You'll still have more lower rpm power than most cars on the road have and nice peak numbers too.

 

[mach1033]

Sullivan would be my choice for your build.

 

[Teej281]

But he'll have to find one used as I believe sullivan no longer offers the intake manifold. I'd go logan personally.

 

[96BlackStangGT]

Thanks for the responses guys. Will the sullivan be alright down low with 3.73's and T56 magnum with 2.97 first gear? I was thinking of running that setup with the 01 intake but if the 01 intake is really that bad then I may have to just go with the Sullivan. If I do, should I just use the sullivan upper with on 03 lower or run both upper and lower?

 

[EvilTwins]

I'd have to disagree with all of the negative comments regarding the '01 Cobra intake. There are quite a lot of people running many variations of it with great success. In comparison to the Sullivan it makes much better low-mid range power and that is something critical in a street car, especially when running a manual trans. With that said however, the nature of the useful power band with a centifugal blower is typically the higher rpm ranges so a Sullivan might be a logical choice.

I liked the way my ported '01 Cobra intake performed and I recently picked up a ported short runner which I am very much looking forward to trying out.

 

[encasedmetal]

OP- use the search function, and check your post on modularfords.com

 

[RamboCobra]

get the whole 03-04 wire harness its easyer that way everything just plugs right up.

 

[Modular Racing]

As many have said, the 99/01 Manifold is a good street manifold but lacks plenum volume which can be helped with one of the MMR spacers, the Sullivan has better upper RPM performance but has some distribution issues and unequal runner lengths. Another option is the 03/04 Cobra lower with one of the MMR sheetmetal uppers, they lack bottom end but have amazing top end and plenty of plenum volume. Lastly there is the new MMR RTS for the C heads that we are finishing up soon, it is similar to the one pictured below but uses the C head design of course. This complete new manifold should retail in the $1200 range, we will be releasing some pics of this one soon.

 

[96BlackStangGT]

I'd have to disagree with all of the negative comments regarding the '01 Cobra intake. There are quite a lot of people running many variations of it with great success. In comparison to the Sullivan it makes much better low-mid range power and that is something critical in a street car, especially when running a manual trans. With that said however, the nature of the useful power band with a centifugal blower is typically the higher rpm ranges so a Sullivan might be a logical choice.

I liked the way my ported '01 Cobra intake performed and I recently picked up a ported short runner which I am very much looking forward to trying out.

Well that's what I was thinking too. I've been looking up as much as I can on the subject and it seem's its a pretty good route to take for a street car, and to be honest I wouldn't be taking it to the track very often (Id probably take the car on a road course more than the strip, but would still do both lol) but if there is a way to at least help with the low end while still using a Sullivan (or other sheet metal type intake) then Id probably go that route. I for sure want that nice high rpm pull but if I can save a little down low id like to.

 

[96BlackStangGT]

get the whole 03-04 wire harness its easyer that way everything just plugs right up.

I plan on it! The PCM, engine harness, transmission harness, dash harness, and instrument cluster I know I will need. Is that all thats really required for it or do I still need the door wiring and some others?

 

[96BlackStangGT]

OP- use the search function, and check your post on modularfords.com

I've actually been searching like a nut (When I can, been working a lot the past month) but I just felt I needed more info on if the 01 intake. Wasn't sure if people were using the 01 upper on an 03 lower or if it was all off of an 01. Saw your build thread, very nice indeed! I'm thinking you may be right about not using the 03 stuff as well. Did you ever get any numbers for your setup?!

 

[96BlackStangGT]

As many have said, the 99/01 Manifold is a good street manifold but lacks plenum volume which can be helped with one of the MMR spacers, the Sullivan has better upper RPM performance but has some distribution issues and unequal runner lengths. Another option is the 03/04 Cobra lower with one of the MMR sheetmetal uppers, they lack bottom end but have amazing top end and plenty of plenum volume. Lastly there is the new MMR RTS for the C heads that we are finishing up soon, it is similar to the one pictured below but uses the C head design of course. This complete new manifold should retail in the $1200 range, we will be releasing some pics of this one soon.

So if I was to run a spacer on the 01 upper and lower then I would be seeing more numbers down low than a sheet metal intake but not give up AS much high RPM power? If I were to run a spacer what would I need? 1/2 inch or more?

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Creative idea!!!

Wastegate that f1a for the boost you wanna make but pulley it for 20-40% more so you build that boost earlier on! If you pulley for 30lbs at 6500rpm but wastegate it at say 19lbs, you'll be making 19's from about 5000rpm through redline and make a ton more torque down low!

If you were already planning something like this, sorry for stating it but if you weren't/didn't know about such a setup, hope it helps and good luck with the build!!

 

[96BlackStangGT]

Creative idea!!!

Wastegate that f1a for the boost you wanna make but pulley it for 20-40% more so you build that boost earlier on! If you pulley for 30lbs at 6500rpm but wastegate it at say 19lbs, you'll be making 19's from about 5000rpm through redline and make a ton more torque down low!

If you were already planning something like this, sorry for stating it but if you weren't/didn't know about such a setup, hope it helps and good luck with the build!!

I think I saw this setup in another thread somewhere, but didn't really pay much attention to it. Looked into it a little and seems like an awesome idea but not too many people are doing it and I dunno if I wanna be the guinne pig haha It is for sure something I would like to see more on though. Some were afraid of the IAT's being too high, and that's one of the reasons I like the F1A to begin with is how cool it is compared to Whipples/Kenne bell's. If someone gets good results with it I would for sure look into it though.

 

[EvilTwins]

Creative idea!!!

Wastegate that f1a for the boost you wanna make but pulley it for 20-40% more so you build that boost earlier on! If you pulley for 30lbs at 6500rpm but wastegate it at say 19lbs, you'll be making 19's from about 5000rpm through redline and make a ton more torque down low!

If you were already planning something like this, sorry for stating it but if you weren't/didn't know about such a setup, hope it helps and good luck with the build!!

I'm fairly certain this is a flawed concept, using a wastegate to vent excess boost would not be a good idea at all. What you need to remember is that unlike with a turbocharged setup you aren't simply venting engine exhaust (which needs to be vented anyway), but rather you would be venting boost. That boost you would be venting requires HP to create - taken directly off the crankshaft. While it might work well at low-mid range RPM's as soon as you start venting actual boost the total efficiency of the setup would go down the toilet.

It is my thought that this is why you don't see people doing something like this.

I think the only way you could accomplish something like this would be to invent some kind of clutch assembly that would start slipping in the higher rpm ranges where you are making excess boost, this would be the supercharged equivalent of a turbocharged setups wastegate. This would not be easy to accomplish at all (hence why it does not exist). If you could install some sort of CVT (transmission) between the engine and the supercharger that would also work. Frankly though it becomes easier/cheaper to go turbo or twincharged.

 

[encasedmetal]

I've actually been searching like a nut (When I can, been working a lot the past month) but I just felt I needed more info on if the 01 intake. Wasn't sure if people were using the 01 upper on an 03 lower or if it was all off of an 01. Saw your build thread, very nice indeed! I'm thinking you may be right about not using the 03 stuff as well. Did you ever get any numbers for your setup?!

it's not done yet, as you'll soon find out it takes a long time to get this setup right, especially if you're going to be building literally everything on the car- which you will have to do. expect to spend 20k + on all that you need. save a little, use a teksid block, B heads, and a PSR 96-98 intake. you have literalyl no need to spend money on C heads for this application. good luck and I will provide any advice I can.
also- the wastegate idea was tested by brooks tuning if anyone is interested.

 

[Teej281]

I'm fairly certain this is a flawed concept, using a wastegate to vent excess boost would not be a good idea at all. What you need to remember is that unlike with a turbocharged setup you aren't simply venting engine exhaust (which needs to be vented anyway), but rather you would be venting boost. That boost you would be venting requires HP to create - taken directly off the crankshaft. While it might work well at low-mid range RPM's as soon as you start venting actual boost the total efficiency of the setup would go down the toilet.

It is my thought that this is why you don't see people doing something like this.

I think the only way you could accomplish something like this would be to invent some kind of clutch assembly that would start slipping in the higher rpm ranges where you are making excess boost, this would be the supercharged equivalent of a turbocharged setups wastegate. This would not be easy to accomplish at all (hence why it does not exist). If you could install some sort of CVT (transmission) between the engine and the supercharger that would also work. Frankly though it becomes easier/cheaper to go turbo or twincharged.

A lot of this I believe to be true, but I beg to differ on the efficiency part. What makes the heat is the pressure mostly. I mean the blower makes some heat from being turned, but what takes the most power away from the motor is the blower being spun that fast pushing that much air. This way here the blower isnt pushing more air as the intake tract is only pressurized to 19psi, its not working a whole lot harder to move the air, other than the blower being spun higher, which is fine as its in the efficiency range of the blower.

I really dont see the IAT's going up a terrible amount to make that much of a difference with this kind of setup, but I'd find it to probably be complex to carry out. :beer: