Ford GT Heads on the New Cobra...

[Fourcam330]

If these heads come on the new Cobra we should be VERY happy. They are the same head as the '00R (also require the same specific valvtrain with smaller lifter/adjuster to accomodate the raised ports) and are without question the best available performance DOHC head. After mild porting it's not hard to see 370-390cfm int./300-320cfm exh. on a stock 3.55-3.57" bore. The stock R/GT exhaust port flows nearly as much as a 99/01 C intake port; also note the +2mm exhaust valves.
Here's how a bare/untouched set of '05 GT heads compares to a ported '01 Navi casting:

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19500&page=1

 

[jwfisher]

That's not right... the heads are *not* the same. They may look it from looking at exhaust ports, but they are not the same. The Cobra R heads were the starting point, but a lot of done for even flow and especially for cooling.
Ford's own engineers have published papers on these changes... they are all available. There is also a lot of other unique stuff done to that engine, none of whihc (so far) has been leveraged elsewhere.
I agree that if they are ever seen on a Cobra, they will be great.

 

[Fourcam330]

That's not right... the heads are *not* the same. They may look it from looking at exhaust ports, but they are not the same. The Cobra R heads were the starting point, but a lot of done for even flow and especially for cooling.
Ford's own engineers have published papers on these changes... they are all available. There is also a lot of other unique stuff done to that engine, none of whihc (so far) has been leveraged elsewhere.
I agree that if they are ever seen on a Cobra, they will be great.

I have both kinds of heads sitting in front of me, and guess what, they're identical to a "T". There was supposed to be better coolant flow around the exhaust port due to the fact that GT is blown and the R is not--can you see that, no. The exhaust port was also supposed to have more material around the port and a slightly smaller mouth area because of it, again wrong.
Sorry, they're just R heads. They even have the same poor casting problems in the exhaust port valve/chamber transition area (throat) that Rs have.
There's nothing wrong with R heads, fwiw they outflow your 03 heads (which are the best readily available production DOHC head) by a shitload.

 

[jwfisher]

Not according to Ford's own engineers. I'm speaking of internal differences, not port appearances (which are identical, I know). And I'm not speaking of any issues with the R heads airflow, I'm speaking of cooling issues first and equality of airflow to all 8 ports secondly. That's what the engineers addressed for the GT, making them the best production heads designed so far.

 

[Fourcam330]

Not according to Ford's own engineers. I'm speaking of internal differences, not port appearances (which are identical, I know). And I'm not speaking of any issues with the R heads airflow, I'm speaking of cooling issues first and equality of airflow to all 8 ports secondly. That's what the engineers addressed for the GT, making them the best production heads designed so far.

I guess if I told you I've been working with the company that casts them for Ford and the tooling hasn't changed from the R heads it wouldn't make any difference? :bash: Have you seen either in person?
What they say isn't always what you get.

 

[2004svtcobra]

They probably are exactly the same. They just don't want to get caught putting the '00R technology in a $150,000 car.

 

[Fourcam330]

They probably are exactly the same. They just don't want to get caught putting the '00R technology in a $150,000 car.

Ding Ding Ding :beer:

 

[Machinator]

I also heard the 00r heads will be available in the new frpp catalog this year. Along with the cammer block. Both of which I will be buying if available.

 

[Fourcam330]

I also heard the 00r heads will be available in the new frpp catalog this year. Along with the cammer block. Both of which I will be buying if available.

The '05GT parts are already available. I've got a few sets of GT heads FS in the classifieds--I'll sell them for cheaper than any Ford parts dept. too.
Stay away from Ford's big bore "cammer" block. The process they use to resleeve the block is shit. Try www.modularperformance.com (they've had big bore 305 blocks for about 4 years now).

 

[KevinB120]

With the GT motor costing $50,000, something tells me its a no show in a mustang. I would bet on a 3V heads with a twin screw, but using a dry sump to fit the skyscraper-tall 5.4

 

[grandestang]

With the GT motor costing $50,000, something tells me its a no show in a mustang. I would bet on a 3V heads with a twin screw, but using a dry sump to fit the skyscraper-tall 5.4

The huge price is probaby coming from parts specific to this GT engine and from the special labor needed to produce it. Ford probably has to make a special effort to produce these motors. They must not have the parts mass produced yet specific to the GT engine, because it is not a regular production engine. Yeah its on the GTs but they made so little.

Also I think a huge part of the price is to add to the glamour of the Ford GT. If they sold the GT engine for 10gs and people realized they could slam those in their stangs and be as quick as the Ford GT then the Ford GT would not hold the individuality it does now.

This engine should be no more expenisive (aside from maybe a twin screw s/c) then the current 03/04 cobra engine if it becomes a regular production engine.

Paul

 

[Fourcam330]

With the GT motor costing $50,000, something tells me its a no show in a mustang. I would bet on a 3V heads with a twin screw, but using a dry sump to fit the skyscraper-tall 5.4

You can buy all the parts necessary to build your own GT motor directly from Ford for under 20k. The 50k motors were a shot in the dark by Joe Charles/Parkway Ford; they were hoping to get a GT owner to bite.
The twin screw on the GT is $2500 (dealer cost), and the intercooler and lower intake are another $1000. A relative bargain IMO.
If you wanted to use these parts in a Mustang however, you would have to have the blower pulley coming out of the A/C panel. :shrug:
I'm also betting on 3v heads (upgraded versions hopefully) and a twin screw, but I've still got my fingers crossed.

 

[hatsharpener]

You can buy all the parts necessary to build your own GT motor directly from Ford for under 20k. The 50k motors were a shot in the dark by Joe Charles/Parkway Ford; they were hoping to get a GT owner to bite.
The twin screw on the GT is $2500 (dealer cost), and the intercooler and lower intake are another $1000. A relative bargain IMO.
If you wanted to use these parts in a Mustang however, you would have to have the blower pulley coming out of the A/C panel. :shrug:
I'm also betting on 3v heads (upgraded versions hopefully) and a twin screw, but I've still got my fingers crossed.

Can you get the dry-sump oil system too? How much does that run?

 

[Fourcam330]

Can you get the dry-sump oil system too? How much does that run?

Yes, I figured that into the price of a complete motor. You're looking at around $1800 when all is said and done with the oiling system.

 

[rezcobra]

Yes, I figured that into the price of a complete motor. You're looking at around $1800 when all is said and done with the oiling system.

Maybe you should sell them in kit form!!!!

 

[MedVader]

You can buy all the parts necessary to build your own GT motor directly from Ford for under 20k. The 50k motors were a shot in the dark by Joe Charles/Parkway Ford; they were hoping to get a GT owner to bite.
The twin screw on the GT is $2500 (dealer cost), and the intercooler and lower intake are another $1000. A relative bargain IMO.
If you wanted to use these parts in a Mustang however, you would have to have the blower pulley coming out of the A/C panel. :shrug:
I'm also betting on 3v heads (upgraded versions hopefully) and a twin screw, but I've still got my fingers crossed.

You wouldn't have the blower snout punching through your dash panel. The Ford GT's motor is front facing behind the driver and the intake piece is a straight shot from the back of motor. So it's still a standard screwblower.

The GT blower and lower look like they will work fine in a stang or any 5.4 app if you get the curved intake elbow that goes to the side(Cobra). You couldn't use the Lightning style elbow because it's made for the unique top loader style blowers. But the GT's screwcharger is standard rear loading.

 

[Fourcam330]

You wouldn't have the blower snout punching through your dash panel. The Ford GT's motor is front facing behind the driver and the intake piece is a straight shot from the back of motor. So it's still a standard screwblower.

The GT blower and lower look like they will work fine in a stang or any 5.4 app if you get the curved intake elbow that goes to the side(Cobra). You couldn't use the Lightning style elbow because it's made for the unique top loader style blowers. But the GT's screwcharger is standard rear loading.

Try it.

 

[MedVader]

No need to try it. The blower points forward. I assumed from your dash comment that you think it points towards the back of the motor.

Now there most probably are a whole bunch of other problems with just bolting GT heads/lower/blower onto a standard 5.4. And I'm not about to be the first one to try that.

 

[Fourcam330]

No need to try it. The blower points forward. I assumed from your dash comment that you think it points towards the back of the motor.

Now there most probably are a whole bunch of other problems with just bolting GT heads/lower/blower onto a standard 5.4. And I'm not about to be the first one to try that.

In order to install that blower/motor in a mustang, you would end up staring at a blower pulley instead of your stereo.
Regarding the block, the starter bosses are in the wrong place, and you'll have to convert to a dry sump or external wet sump oiling system. The heads/intake will bolt onto any 5.4L block.

 

[MedVader]

Take a look at the motor and tell me why the blower snout would point backwards.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/images/photo_gallery/ph_gt_popup_12.jpg

That is the front of the engine. Damper, accessories, etc. And there's the blower pointing in the forward direction. Now if you tell me the engine motor mounts make it so it has to be dropped in backwards, I could understand that. But it looks like a GT blower/lower/heads could be dropped into any 5.4 car/truck.