Good news about my new Cobra.

[Randee of the Redwoods]

Boy. Did I have one helluva weekend. And to top it all off, My SVT salesman gave me my 2k3 Cobra coupe price yesterday. When I asked him about the late April pricing, he said he'd heard that too but had order and build sheets in his hands with numbers on them. Of course, they are subject to change, and he did admit that, but from what he could tell, he said they looked accurate. Coupe: 35020 Convert: 38500. No word yet on price of chrome rim option.
Learned some interesting things about the new Cobra as well. Rumors Comfirmed: Iron block for durability. Alum block would not withstand Ford's durability test. Iron was the only option.
T56 6 speed has slightly higher first(2.66) and second(1.78) gears. The fellow I talked to(a former Ford employee) explained why, but I forgot. He said SVT originally was testing the Viper T56 but the gearing didn't work out for whatever reason. The Viper has a 3.xx first gear.
Horsepower UNDERRATED. Preproduction models dynoed 370+hp at the rear wheels which puts about 405-410 hp at the crank. No joke. And Ford has NO intentions of changing that.
Ford has decided they may have dropped compression to low(8.5:1). Turns out the current motor combination is capable of more power and maybe 8.5:1 was too low to go. Eh. Smaller blower pulley will fix that.
Car will run 12's stock. No doubt. To meed Federal EPA noise guidelines, the exhaust had to choke down a bit. Fed says no more than 80 db. Car is currently 79.6 db.
Factory SVT equipped head studs. Yep. You heard right. Violates a Ford proclamation for service reasons that the head be removable with the motor in the car.
The best part? Due to the choked exhaust, a freer exhaust, 4.10's, smaller blower pulley, and a reprogrammed chip in the computer and the car will do 11's. No joke there either. I did fail to ask just how far down into the 11's it would be. But, damn. That's all and it will reach 11's? Geez. I didn't buy a car. I bought a rocket.
My salesman gave me the official Cobra spec sheet. I don't know how many others of you have seen it, but I'll scan it and post it up. I think it's already been around the internet.
And to all you that may not believe me: believe what you want. The guy I talked to used to work for Ford in vehicle development and was driving the development Ford F150 Harly Davidson Edition SuperCrew with the Lightening motor. And I have pics to prove it as soon as my gf gets the film developed. This guy spoke openly and clearly about this car plainly with no intention of keeping any of the info he let out a secret. He obviously participated in some of the development. This guy is the mother of the horse's mouth and I believe him.
If I get more info out of him, you all will be the first to know.
PLUS-Richmond Ford(358-5521 Doug Williams)-has 2 order slots still open for the Cobra. Priced at MSRP and IN WRITING.

 

[CatchMeCopper]

niiiiiiiiiiiiice Damn dude im so freakin psyched. This is z06 teritory..

 

[CbrCpe]

Congrats on your new-to-be 2003 Cobra. It should be a blast to drive. In addtion to some of the things you mentioned, it will have an aluminium driveshaft, aluminium flywheel, and an upgraded IRS and suspension. On the other hand, it will be heavy @3650lbs for the coupe w/ 57-43% f/r weight ratio.

...Rumors Comfirmed: Iron block for durability. Alum block would not withstand Ford's durability test. Iron was the only option...

Ford used an iron block because it is cheaper than an aluminium block. But, the Cobra will have forged rods & pistons.

...T56 6 speed has slightly higher first(2.66) and second(1.78) gears. The fellow I talked to(a former Ford employee) explained why, but I forgot. He said SVT originally was testing the Viper T56 but the gearing didn't work out for whatever reason. The Viper has a 3.xx first gear...

The Viper's T-56 ratios are 2.66.1.78,1.30,1.00,.74,.50 w/ 3.07 differential, and the 2003 Cobra's are 2.66,1.78,1.30,1.00,.80,.62 w/ 3.55 ring & pinion.

...Preproduction models dynoed 370+hp at the rear wheels which puts about 405-410 hp at the crank...

You will need 435-450hp to make 370rwhp.
...

Ford has decided they may have dropped compression to low(8.5:1)...

They dropped the compression ratio to 8.5:1 because of the supercharger.

 

[bassin247]

:idea:

I really don't buy the fact they put in the iron block was due to saving money.

Even if the block was an additional $1000 I bet EVERY person would put down that extra money to have a car that is lighter in the front. A car that has a better front/rear weight distrabution.

Do you think they intentionally put in a block that was a little cheaper, but hurt the performance and handling. WHY would they intentionally give us a reason to bitch and complain.

I have an 03 on order at MSRP and I would not think about it for another second to drop another grand on the car with an alum

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by pimpinSaleen
:idea:

I really don't buy the fact they put in the iron block was due to saving money.

Even if the block was an additional $1000 I bet EVERY person would put down that extra money to have a car that is lighter in the front. A car that has a better front/rear weight distrabution.

Do you think they intentionally put in a block that was a little cheaper, but hurt the performance and handling. WHY would they intentionally give us a reason to bitch and complain.

I have an 03 on order at MSRP and I would not think about it for another second to drop another grand on the car with an alum

It may not make a difference to you, but to the masses that $1000 is alot. These car companies will make a change if they can save $5.00 let alone $500-1000. Multiply your $1000 ( I know it was just a figure pulled out of your head) times the 10,000 cars they are supposedly going to built.
I won't argue that a iron block may be stronger, but the question is...Is the aluminum block too weak????
They added alot of costs to that car, I believe they are trying to offset them. Do you think they are gona come out and tell us: "We went to a iron block because it was cheaper than aluminum"??? No, of course not, they will hang thier hat on the strength issue till the cows come home, but history has proven the alum block is just fine with a blower.

Just my opinion, Brian

 

[103]

OK, based on their own tests, Ford makes it obvious the aluminum block can take it. It is all cost. (Or, as thought up by someone on stangnet, availability cocerns.)

Look at the FR500. It uses a bored 5 liter aluminum block with, basically, the same heads as on the 2003. Since it is bored, it is slightly less durable than the normal bore 4.6L. But the FR500 puts out 415 bhp. Not to mention the dozens of 96-01 Cobra owners that have yet to have a failure with a blower making more power than what Ford is claiming on the 03.

If it isn't cost, then our $6500 blocks must be a real rip off.

Come on people, use common sense. And don't believe everything a dealer tells you. They lie. They lie a lot. They want to make money and support their families. And the cost between the aluminum block is not $1000, it is $4000. That is a big cost. I dunno if I could stomach paying $40000 for a 25 year old chassis even if it is a Cobra.

 

[Yellow Horse]

As posted above, 370 HP is about 435 crank. If the rumors are true, this will be the car to have.

I had some young punk in a C5 throw some revs at me today as he met me going in the opposite direction. Little does he know my little ole '01 could probably bust his ass or at least give him a run for the money. Wait till he runs into an '03 Cobra, he'll be real dissappointed in his $40k+ C5. I'd say that most young C5 drivers buy the C5 for performance and are a lot less likely due to funds or mechanical abilities to modify their cars. They'll sure wish they had an '03 Cobra because it will be king of the hill for some time to come.

 

[Dave Schotz]

zm_zm... congrats on the car... I can see you are very excited.. as you should be... it is a great car... however... some of your statements are a bit misguided... and over zealous..

Yellow Horse... You have a lot to learn if you think 390... hell lets give it 430 HP... is going to do SQUAT against Z-06's and Vipers.. the '03 is a far cry from any king of the hill... except maybe King of the PORKERS at 3665 pounds!!! :rollseyes: especially when 57% of that is on the NOSE!!! PUHLEEZ!

I am glad CbrCpe corrected the Trans ratio deal... The Viper has always used those ratios... The Z-06 has the shortest set with a 2.97 first.

The '03 Cobra is a great car... but at almost 3700lbs... good luck fending off even Stock LS1 Corvettes!

If Cobra R's are already done to low 40's... and they only made 300 of them...

My fear is with ford making 10,000 of these by the end of the '03 model run... with the best case scenario pricing of 35000 PLUS Tax, Title etc... you are looking at 40G's... out the door... for a car that will be worth 33K in 6 months... I can't do it this time... I bought my '01 Z-06... brand new had 4 miles on it... but they hold value a bit better than the stang...

And with going to an Iron Block... I am having a tough time not building my own '03 Car.. out of my '01 Current Cobra... that way... I am looking at about 3450 w/ Blower And 6spd and IRS... vs. 3665 for the '03.

My .02

Dave

 

[Randee of the Redwoods]

Say what you want, I believe the the fellow I talked to. He obviously had some of his hand in on the development of this vehicle or else he wouldn't have known such detailed info. Plus, he used to work for Ford. What more do you need?
Iron for durability. Ford's durability test is 300 hours at peak hp then 300 hours at peak torque. He said the crank bearings began to distort in the alum block prototypes. It just couldn't take it. For all of you who said you have blown alum block motors and had no problems and that I lied: run your blown alum block motor through the Ford durability test and let me know what happens. Ford has a durability regulation to meet and the alum block with the chosen forced induction combination would not pass that test.
To the one who told me not to believe the dealer and that all dealers lie: well, you're right, except this guy I talked to was NOT a dealer. He tests and develops vehicles for Ford.
HP numbers wrong: oops. My maths sucks. What can I say? Big deal. He said 370 give or take at the rear wheels from the pre-production models he himself tested as opposed to the 390 Ford rating. Whatever it equals out at the crank, then more power to you. I don't know the conversion numbers. I THOUGHT I heard something like 410 at the crank, but, the person who said it might have gotten the math wrong, too.
Six speed gear ratios: oh well, I was wrong. The ratios I posted were from that info card my dealer gave me. It's kind of a pre-brochure. But I do know for a fact that the guy I talked to last weekend made some comparison to the viper 6 speed. I'll see if I can get that one straight.
And I'm well aware of the current 8.5:1 compression. What I said about that stands.

Look, guys. I am not misguided or over zealous. I had the honor of being in company with a guy who was driving a non production Lightening powered Harly Davidson edition F150 Super Crew, that he drove all the way from Michigan. Believe what you want. I believe what this guy told me. If you still want to post a challenge, whatever. All I have to say is prove it.
I have all the proof I need from what I've just told you. I just wish I had asked more questions.

 

[Dave Schotz]

zm_zm... there is nothing wrong with what you originally posted... Everything you wrote is standard knowledge... I have the same brochure you have... you can get it at any Ford Dealer... Let me gues.. Yellow Cobra on the Cover? With Specs on the back? Most dealers are keeping them hidden for now...

The 370 RWHP has been leaked on a few other boards also... I think that is great...

But the fact is the Aluminum block is pure cost savings... There are way to many arguments proving the strength and durability of the Previous Aluminum Motor! Heck... notice the GT-40... Supercharged 5.4 litre.. ALUMINUM Block! Man.. better check that durability!

My main post was really to the fact that this car is MARGINALLY Better than a current '01... and if you don't believe that... Do nothing more than give the '01 car the 17 X 9's... with 275/40 F1's... and the 6 speed and watch what happens on any road course!... Slalom... or braking!

Fact is it is typical Ford Propoganda... hmm... Compare it to a 245/45/17 17X8" cobra... and maybe we can pull slightly better numbers! :idea:

Do you know about the Gas Guzzler Tax yet? Or did this oh so knowledgeable guy not mention that part yet?

And what did you expect... your reliable info... about the trans.. wrong... about the Compression ratio... wrong... what do you think they would do... run 9:1 on a Supercharged car? Never happen.. heck.. they can't get 9.85:1 cars to not ping!

I sure hope the car will run 12's... but for comparison... back in 2000 when Motor Trend did the S/C & Cobra Competition... the S/C (which was a 5.4 litre Supercharged 2 Valver) made 360 Hp, and 440 Tq... albeit not the 390 of the '03 but quite a bit more Tq... and only ran 13.4 @ 109 with the 3.55 and 6spd...

Understand... almost 300 more lbs = 30 more HP to make up for it... so no matter how you add that up... it very quickly becomes not such a great power to weight ratio... and nothing you do will help it turn..

I really don't want to be an '03 Basher... and I am sorry for coming across that way... I am just dissapointed by the Iron Block... :sad

 

[Blue03Cobra]

Originally posted by CbrCpe
On the other hand, it will be heavy @3650lbs for the coupe w/ 57-43% f/r weight ratio.

You use the F/R ratio as a "con" against the '03 Cobra, but the '02 Z06 is 56/44 (March 02 Road and Track). Is one percent all that different?

 

[Blue03Cobra]

Originally posted by Dave Schotz
the S/C (which was a 5.4 litre Supercharged 2 Valver) made 360 Hp, and 440 Tq... albeit not the 390 of the '03 but quite a bit more Tq... and only ran 13.4 @ 109 with the 3.55 and 6spd...

And the latest article where they're saying that it'll "run at least 110 in the quarter", leads me to believe thirteen flat (maybe HIGH twelves) with a competent dragstrip & driver.

Now with Evan Smith driving...elevens? :-D I can't wait for the "bone stock '03 Cobras running elevens" stories, flames, counter flames, etc., etc. to start :-D :rolling: :whine:

 

[Randee of the Redwoods]

Originally posted by Dave Schotz
zm_zm... there is nothing wrong with what you originally posted... Everything you wrote is standard knowledge... I have the same brochure you have... you can get it at any Ford Dealer... Let me gues.. Yellow Cobra on the Cover? With Specs on the back? Most dealers are keeping them hidden for now...

Yea. That's the one. A co-worker of mine said he had already seen it on the internet but I wasn't sure. I was just offering the look-see for those who hadn't seen it.

Do you know about the Gas Guzzler Tax yet? Or did this oh so knowledgeable guy not mention that part yet?

Yea. Step 3. He said that Ford tried to make it to Step 2 but couldn't. Now THAT part I don't believe. He mentioned about $1500 but I have yet to confirm that. My dealer has no knowledge of that or so he says. He knows more than he leads on.

 

[Yellow Horse]

Dave, why is it everytime someone starts talking about how good the '03 Cobra is going to be the next thing someone throws up a Z06 in the mix. The '03 Cobra will be king of the hill as far as straight line speed versus C5's, Birds and SS's. And with just a few mods it will best a Z06 in the 1/4 mile for a heck of a lot less money. These are two differnent cars that appeal to different values.

Also, please show me a link to a $40k something Cobra R. The least I have seen in the Mustang Trader magazine is $55k.

As soon as I lay a few wrenches on my '03, I'll be glad to run a stock Z06 if they think it will outrun my '03. Sure, you can mod a Z06 and suck the paint off an '03, but Ford nor me ever compared the Z06 to the new Cobra. I got mine for sticker and it will be under $35k and that my friend is one hell of a buy.

One other thing, PUHLEEZ, read my post before you start thowing up Vipers and Z06's.

 

[bassin247]

I was thinking the same thing too about a 40 something thousand dollar cobra r

I havent seen a 2000 cobra r sell less than 48k.

here are 2 from ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1807143063&r=0&t=0
@39k (reverse not yet met)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1807101415&r=0&t=0
@45k (reverse not yet met)

If either of these sell I doubt it will be for less than 48k

In the march 2002 edition of mustang and ford trader there are 3 2000 cobra r's

page 8 54k
page 14 65k (a steal so the ad says)
page 16 58K

 

[tommylightning]

They want $48K for the first one.

 

[CbrCpe]

Originally posted by Blue98Cobra
You use the F/R ratio as a "con" against the '03 Cobra, but the '02 Z06 is 56/44 (March 02 Road and Track). Is one percent all that different?

I'm not bashing the 03 Cobra. As a matter of fact, I am going to buy one of the 'second' fall/winter production models. I think it will be a fun street car.

I was not comparing the 03 Cobra to the Z06, they are two different animals. Also the Z06 is ~535lbs lighter than the new Cobra. I was simply pointing out what I think are the ups & the downs v. the contemporary Cobras.

Of course, the extra ~235lbs with the majority of the increase on the nose is a negative in the handling & traction department. It was a move in the wrong direction. The 99's & 01's had a weight distribution of 55.5/45.4% f/r. The 99+ Cobra coupe is 3430lbs. , the 03 is 3665lbs.

In the 'great' department is the increased hp, the T-56, the aluminium driveshaft , aluminium flywheel, and the upgraded IRS & suspension parts. As I said, it's going to be a great GG.

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by Blue98Cobra
And the latest article where they're saying that it'll "run at least 110 in the quarter", leads me to believe thirteen flat (maybe HIGH twelves) with a competent dragstrip & driver.

Now with Evan Smith driving...elevens? :-D I can't wait for the "bone stock '03 Cobras running elevens" stories, flames, counter flames, etc., etc. to start :-D :rolling: :whine:

I would expext the 03 to run very simular times as the 00 Cobra R's do. About the same hp, weight, and weight distribution. If that is the case figure mid twelves for a really good driver, high twelves low thirteens for US not so good drivers. :gt: :gt: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

[Dave Schotz]

Sorry... I have been in meetings all morning.. looks like a lot to answer... Starting from the first reply...

Blue98Cobra... I don't know where Road & Track got there info... but the Corvette museum has all the official specs, and the Z-06 is 53 / 47, and a C5 Coupe is 51/49... And it isn't the percentage differance... it is that 53% of 3100 isn't crap... but 57% of 3665 IS a LOT!!

Blue98Cobra... I agree... low 13's should be easy... and High 12's too... But rememeber... this car weighs 230 MORE pounds than an '01! And most of it is on the nose... Evan may run 11's... prolly low 12's... but it will be on Drag Radials... or Slicks!

zm_zm... You wrote "Yea. Step 3. He said that Ford tried to make it to Step 2 but couldn't. Now THAT part I don't believe. He mentioned about $1500 but I have yet to confirm that. My dealer has no knowledge of that or so he says. He knows more than he leads on.

Now maybe you'll believe I may know a bit more too?

Yellow Horse... You wrote "I had some young punk in a C5 throw some revs at me today as he met me going in the opposite direction. Little does he know my little ole '01 could probably bust his ass or at least give him a run for the money. Wait till he runs into an '03 Cobra, he'll be real dissappointed in his $40k+ C5. I'd say that most young C5 drivers buy the C5 for performance and are a lot less likely due to funds or mechanical abilities to modify their cars. They'll sure wish they had an '03 Cobra because it will be king of the hill for some time to come."

Maybe you didn't know Z-06's were C5's! :bash: :lol: :rollseyes

So... I DIDN'T BRING UP C5's... YOU DID!!!

For everyone that thinks Cobra-R's are in the 48-52 range... please divert to the Cobra R forum... I am sure they will tell you... mid to low 40's.... typically 42-45... I passed one up at 45...

pimpin saleen... You think EBAY is the place to get a good price on a COBRA R? :lol: PUHLEEZ!!! That is where people try to get a ton of money for something with little or no effort... The Real Market is much less... And come on... it figures... you driving a Saleen and all... that you think the prices in a FORD & MUSTANG TRADER are typical!! Hmmm... how long have those cars been for sale in there??? Those type of ads are there to run for eternity... until some hopeful crazed, uninformed idiot decides that is the place to look for one... and sees all these 'great deals'

And lastly.... believe it or not... I will back up my last statement of my previous posting... I really do like the new Cobra's... just SEVERELY dissapointed with the Iron Block!

Dave

 

[Yellow Horse]

Dave, I know a little about Vettes because I owned one. Nobody refers to a Z06 as a C5. You knew what I was referring to.

It is funny as hell as some people are already sweating the arrival of the '03 Cobra. I think it is pretty flattering for Ford that a lot of people have to bring up high dollar low production cars to compare to a 10-12k production model that is close to those cars in performance with the exception of the Viper in HP only. And, it aint even built yet.

Thanks for the compliments. Ford thanks you also.
:rolling: